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747400sp
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To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:40 pm

If there was a project a/c that you could build, but here is the catch, it has to be powered by only one CF-6 50. What kind of jet would you build, around this design?

For me, a 18 passenger personal island hopper, with a 108 wing span.


PS: Single engine and CF-6 50 only is the rules?   
 
AmericanAirFan
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:14 am

At my college we have a CF6 in our "boneyard" it is HUGE!! I'd make a 100 passenger airplane configured all first class lie flat for 30 passengers. (Big enough to do 100 people in all economy config though). I would have the engine mounted in the middle beneath attached to the wing box with landing gear on either side that retract outboard rather than the conventional inboard. It would seat a 1 1 Aisle config. Economy would be a 2 2 seat config.
"American 1881 Cleared For Takeoff One Seven Left"
 
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Horstroad
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:15 pm

why does it have to be a CF6-50, not a -80 for example?

I´d build a 737-sized plane... as the engine is quite big in size compared to the 737 fuselage I would put it in the same axis behind the cabin with a ring-shaped inlet. for better aerodynamic efficiency it would be a canard design.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:56 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
For me, a 18 passenger personal island hopper, with a 108 wing span.

Powered by a CF6?

Make that a supersonic 18 passenger personal island hopper then...  

Otherwise, I guess a mini Tristar looking thing without the wing engines. The wings would have to be further back due to the displaced CoG and the undercarriage would be shorter to save weight.

It would look like a MD-80 with a tail mounted, S-ducted big engine. The horizontal stabilizer would remain on top of the fin.
It would have a big arse...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
KELPkid
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:18 pm

A single-engined, Single seat SR-71 replacement    It would use a moving cone in the nose intake (just like the MiG-21) to keep the flow to the fan subsonic...

Although, as I understand it, the reality is that high bypass engines make terrible engines for supersonic fighters/strategic reconissance aircraft, because not only do you have to feed the engine subsonic air, but the exhaust flow has to be supersonic as well to maintain supersonic flight (which fights much of the hard work which was done to engineer a CF6 in the first place to make the engine quiet!). I suppose you could do that to a degree with turkey feathers (an application of the Bernoulli Effect)...I've often wondered, though, how the F-22 can supercruise   
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
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Horstroad
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:06 am

Quoting horstroad (Reply 2):
I´d build a 737-sized plane... as the engine is quite big in size compared to the 737 fuselage I would put it in the same axis behind the cabin with a ring-shaped inlet. for better aerodynamic efficiency it would be a canard design.

here is a sketch of my idea:

 
HaveBlue
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:36 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
with a 108 wing span.

Isn't that a bit 'spanny' for an island hopper? Just sayin...  
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:43 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):

PS: Single engine and CF-6 50 only is the rules?

Why settle with a CF6 when you could have even more fun with a GE-90-115B?   
 
hal9213
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:06 pm

I would make it look like the Swiss (0:15) or KLM (0:20) in the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjTu0jhqqPE&feature=related
(without the weird tube in the tail / tubes under the wings obvisouly)

Tube with wings, engine in the front of the tube, and duct the exhaust above the cabin to the back. Rest as a usual 5-abreast plane, which should roughly be the diameter of the CF6.
That way, you reduce drag, as the only front is the engine. (Oh, and wings of course).
Now about the cockpit.... Hmmm. Uhhhm, I think this would be the time to introduce either fully automated or remote operated airplanes... But maybe an artificial vision with cameras and screen would do to.
 
wingscrubber
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:30 am

Reposting this as it is still relevant to the topic;
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...ngle-engined-jet-airliner-anybody/

Lockheed's single-engined airliner concept, though I like Horstroad's concept! Very Rutanesque...
Resident TechOps Troll
 
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Devilfish
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:03 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 3):

It would look like a MD-80 with a tail mounted, S-ducted big engine. The horizontal stabilizer would remain on top of the fin. It would have a big arse...

I find the DC-10 scheme neater and less bulky.....

https://www.airliners.net/photo/AeroP...d=76b32137771459bdbce74e4d1b7b9f10
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Francoflier
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:44 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 10):

An engine that size would probably be too bulky to sit embedded in the tail of a 737-sized aircraft. The pitch down tendency created by the high position of the engine would make for a lot of engineering headaches.
It would be better to have the center of thrust as close to the wing level as possible, hence embedded at the back of the fuselage.

But since this is an exercise in futility anyway, why not?  
Quoting horstroad (Reply 5):
here is a sketch of my idea:

It looks neat, but I'm wondering about the anchorage point for the engine. It would have to be pretty much hung from the shaft, wouldn't it?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
sdf880
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:04 pm

Some airline beancounter somewhere might have read all of this and is drawing up a plan to save big bucks. ESOPS. Extended single engine operation.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:28 pm

I would guess using a nice old JT-3D or JT-8D would be more fun, cause you could go Supersonic then, something hardly possible with a high bypass CF-6.

Be this as it may be, I would propose a Heinkel-162 design, just a bit stronger  
 
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Horstroad
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:30 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):
but I'm wondering about the anchorage point for the engine. It would have to be pretty much hung from the shaft, wouldn't it?

here is an update of my drawing with a view from the side. it would have a mount similar to the one of the DC-10/MD-11.
the MLG had to be modified a little bit to prevent tailstrikes

here it is:

 
GST
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:11 pm

Does it have to be a plane? I'd launch the engine into space as a standalone satellite, as a proof of concept and as a prelude to further missions such as first jet engine on the moon/mars etc.
 
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rjsampson
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:54 am

Dang, hors...

Scale that down to a small private jet, and you're competing with the Piperjet!

Oh wait.. FOD
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. Unfortunately, we're grounded :(
 
CplKlinger
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:37 am

Quoting horstroad (Reply 14):

The only problem with this - uncontained blade failure. I know this is a very uncommon failure mode, but it would have to be accounted for. Say something goes south and a large section of the low pressure turbine goes, you might loose sections of the rudder, mounting points for the rudder/hydraulic systems, and not to mention possibly the engine. You would end up with a highly shifted CG, borked hydraulics and a shredded rudder. Not a favorable position any pilot would want to be in.
 
JT8DJET
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:46 am

The first thing that came to mind, was CF6-50 + GEE BEE Sportster.



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Maybe throw in a little Slim Pickens...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sl...kens_riding-the-bomb_enh-lores.jpg
 
CplKlinger
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:31 am

Quoting JT8DJET (Reply 18):
The first thing that came to mind, was CF6-50 + GEE BEE Sportster.

Where do I sign up?
 
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Horstroad
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:57 am

Quoting CplKlinger (Reply 17):
The only problem with this - uncontained blade failure. I know this is a very uncommon failure mode, but it would have to be accounted for. Say something goes south and a large section of the low pressure turbine goes, you might loose sections of the rudder, mounting points for the rudder/hydraulic systems, and not to mention possibly the engine. You would end up with borked hydraulics and a shredded rudder.

this happened before... United Airlines Flight 232

Quoting Wikipedia:
On July 19, 1989, the DC-10 (Registration N1819U) crash-landed in Sioux City, Iowa, after suffering catastrophic failure of its tail-mounted engine, which led to the loss of all flight controls.

The manner in which the engine failed resulted in high-speed shrapnel being hurled from the engine; this shrapnel penetrated the hydraulic lines of all three independent hydraulic systems on board the aircraft, which rapidly lost their hydraulic fluid. As the flight controls on the DC-10 are hydraulically powered, the flight crew lost their ability to operate nearly all of them. Despite these losses, the crew were able to attain and then maintain limited control by using the only systems still workable: the two remaining engines.

DC-10/MD-11 still fly after this accident. as i adopted the mount (just put it behind the fuselage, not on top) there is no higher chance of a fatal engine loss than the MD-11 has.
only difference is that you would not have any remaining engines. but this is the flaw of any one engine plane.
 
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Devilfish
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:03 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):

An engine that size would probably be too bulky to sit embedded in the tail of a 737-sized aircraft.

Looking at the engine photo in Reply 18 above, maybe just as proportional on a 737 compared to the Piper Jet.....

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Photo © Vala - Russian AviaPhoto Team


.....but wouldn't 52,500 pounds be too much thrust for a single-engine 737 takeoff?

Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):
The pitch down tendency created by the high position of the engine would make for a lot of engineering headaches.

That makes it more fun, doesn't it.....as you say, why not?  
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
hal9213
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:37 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 21):
....but wouldn't 52,500 pounds be too much thrust for a single-engine 737 takeoff?

The expression "too much thrust" does not exist in my language  

Why does it have to be CF6? Can I take a GE90 ?
 
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vhqpa
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:56 pm

Quoting horstroad (Reply 14):

This might be a stupid question but with your design wouldn't there be a lack of airflow to the engine?



If I were designing a airframe with a single CF6-50 it would be a 737-900/A321 sized airliner optimised for hauling 200 butts short distances ie. ATL-MCO or CDG-MUC where you're always in gliding distance of an alternate should you experience an engine failure. It's engine would be embedded in rear of the aircraft with a S duct and mid set horizontal stabiliser a little bit like a cross between a L1011 and Falcon 900. Seating would be 2-2 in Business and 3-3 in Economy. Another interesting feature will be the large parachute stowed at the rear of the aircraft to assist stopping the aircraft in the event of a engine failure on the take off roll. As it's designed for Sub 2.5 Hour missions it wouldn't have winglets. 15-20 years down the track a Neo version will become available replacing the horribly inefficient CF6-50 with either a Trent 700 or Trent 1000.
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
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ADent
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:13 am

You are going to need a lot of wing to meet the 61 knot stall speed of single engine planes.
 
474218
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RE: To Build A Plane With One CF-6 50?

Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:31 pm

I would expect something similar to this, except bigger!


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