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AmericanF100
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Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2001 1:24 am

757 Weight Questions

Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:23 pm

Hi everyone,

I have done some looking around and cannot seem to find a straight answer to questions about the weights of the 757-200. If anyone can help me out (pilots of the 757 would be particularly helpful I think) I would really appreciate it.

Does anyone know the real MTOW and manufacturer empty weight of the 757-200? For manufacturer empty weight, I am using the definition from wikipedia of:

"Manufacturer's Weight Empty (MWE) (also known as Manufacturer's Empty Weight (MEW) is the weight of the aircraft "as built" and includes the weight of the structure, power plant, furnishings, installations, systems and other equipment that are considered an integral part of an aircraft before additional operator items are added for operation."

I am not sure if this is different than the "Dry Operating Weight" or not, clarification would be nice too!

I have read multiple MTOW for the 757-200. I've seen 220,000lbs and 255,000lbs. But all of the charts list the ZFW for both max-takeoff weights the same at around 184,000lbs with the exact same capacity. They also list the exact same fuel capacity for both MTOW's at 11,200 gallons (or around 75,000lbs). That means the ONLY variable that can be different between these 2 models is the empty weight. So does that mean, for the higher 255,000 MTOW that the empty weight is higher than the empty weight of the lower 220,000 MTOW?

I had someone suggest to me that no 757-200 actually has a MTOW of 255,000 because it would be referred to by ATC as "heavy" and 752 are not referred to as such.

I would just really appreciate some clarification on this. As I have dug further into the real weights, I have become more and more confused.

Thank you,
Matt

[Edited 2011-08-27 10:29:43]
 
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LAXintl
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: 757 Weight Questions

Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:57 pm

I'll try to provide a few answers.

Yes indeed there are 255,000 MTOW 757-200s. The 757 like many aircraft comes with various weight options. And yes they were called "heavy" until 2010 when the FAA came out with the below:

The Federal Aviation Administration has issued a notice re-classifying all versions of 757 aircraft as “large,” effective April 8, 2010. All requirements and procedures that were based on certain airframes being classified “heavy” are rescinded and eliminated. This covered the 757-300 versions as well as some weight variants of the 757-200.

All 757s were previously provided the special wake turbulence separation standards that have been in effect for years. Beginning April 8, aircraft following any version of 757 will no longer be provided “heavy” separation. This will reduce ATC separation requirements by one mile behind the 757-300 and the “heavy” variants of 757-200.

The elimination of the “heavy” call-sign will end any confusion regarding what kind of 757 is being operated. Be conscious of the new reduced separation ATC requirements, because the 757 produces significant wake turbulence.


Regarding the weights, I am not familiar with MWE. Instead have used terms such as OEW - Operating Empty Weight or DOW - Dry Operating Weight which are both the aircraft with its furnishings such as seats, galleys, and equipment ready for revenue service.
For a major US 757-200 operator I see its aircraft come in about 133,000lbs range.
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alasizon
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RE: 757 Weight Questions

Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:01 pm

The MEW and DOW can be different. In some cases the MEW does not include any of the galley components, seating, overhead bins etc but sometimes the DOW is an average of all the weights that include these items. It all depends on where you are getting your data from.

Quoting AmericanF100 (Thread starter):

I have read multiple MTOW for the 757-200. I've seen 220,000lbs and 255,000lbs. But all of the charts list the ZFW for both max-takeoff weights the same at around 184,000lbs with the exact same capacity. They also list the exact same fuel capacity for both MTOW's at 11,200 gallons (or around 75,000lbs). That means the ONLY variable that can be different between these 2 models is the empty weight. So does that mean, for the higher 255,000 MTOW that the empty weight is higher than the empty weight of the lower 220,000 MTOW?

Additional things to consider are the engines and winglets (if they are fitted)
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tdscanuck
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RE: 757 Weight Questions

Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:09 pm

Quoting AmericanF100 (Thread starter):
Does anyone know the real MTOW and manufacturer empty weight of the 757-200?

Real MTOW comes from the aircraft flight manual (AFM). It can be different for different aircraft, as operators can purchase reduced or increased MTOW. I've seen 220000, 230000, 230500, 240000, etc.

MEW is different for every airframe because it depends, partly, on the build of that particular aircraft. As a result, there is no fixed number.

Quoting AmericanF100 (Thread starter):
I am not sure if this is different than the "Dry Operating Weight" or not, clarification would be nice too!

It's different. MEW doesn't include some things that DOW does (mostly things that the airline adds after the airframe is certified).

Quoting AmericanF100 (Thread starter):
I have read multiple MTOW for the 757-200. I've seen 220,000lbs and 255,000lbs. But all of the charts list the ZFW for both max-takeoff weights the same at around 184,000lbs with the exact same capacity.

That's correct...the ZFW is a structural limit and fixed by the design of the aircraft. The MTOW is a certified limit and can change with the aircraft.

Quoting AmericanF100 (Thread starter):
They also list the exact same fuel capacity for both MTOW's at 11,200 gallons (or around 75,000lbs). That means the ONLY variable that can be different between these 2 models is the empty weight.

No. Since they're the same build (same wing) they have the same fuel capacity. But it's physically impossible to fill an airliner like a 757 with payload to ZFW and then fill the fuel tanks...you'll be way above MTOW. So the fact that the MTOWs are different has nothing to do with the empty weight.

What's different between the two models is how much fuel you can load before you hit MTOW. For equal payload, the higher MTOW model has greater range.

Quoting AmericanF100 (Thread starter):
So does that mean, for the higher 255,000 MTOW that the empty weight is higher than the empty weight of the lower 220,000 MTOW?

No. The empty weights are almost certainly very close together.

Quoting AmericanF100 (Thread starter):
I had someone suggest to me that no 757-200 actually has a MTOW of 255,000 because it would be referred to by ATC as "heavy" and 752 are not referred to as such.

That's an old issue that's gone away thanks to FAA/ATC clarification.

Tom.
 
Part147
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RE: 757 Weight Questions

Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:18 pm

The Type Certificate for the 752 might help to clarify it for you...

Admittedly the FAA version is a bit difficult to read, but see page 9 - http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...cc486256b8f006e599a/$FILE/A2nm.pdf

and you'll find the following text, so search for the 3 Flight Manuals if you need accurate values...
Boeing Document No. D631N001 is the basic FAA-Approved Flight Manual for Model 757-200 airplanes powered by RB211-535-C-37 engines.

Boeing Document No. D631N002 is the basic FAA-Approved Flight Manual for Model 757-200 airplanes powered by P&W 2037 and P&W 2040 engines, and for Model 757-200PF airplanes powered by P&W 2037 and 2040 engines.

Boeing Document No. D631N005 is the basic FAA-Approved Flight Manual for Model 757-200 airplanes powered by RB211-535-E4-37 and RB211-535-E4-B-37 engines, and for Models 757-200PF and 757-200CB powered by RB211-535-E4-37 engines.


If that's too detailed, then just check out the 'European' version, page 3 - http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1419/srg_acp_fa28-05.pdf
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AmericanF100
Topic Author
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2001 1:24 am

RE: 757 Weight Questions

Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:02 am

Hey guys,

Thank you very much for those detailed answers, especially tdscanuck. What you said makes perfect sense and after posting this topic and then doing some more research, I did come to basically the same conclusion, yours was just better articulated! I was using the misconception that MTOW was based on the airframe and not certification. My bad.

Thanks again,
Matt

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