Is there a list of LAHSO-approved airports?
How does one get LAHSO-rated?
Is it the trickiest of all techniques?
Can one do a CAT III B LAHSO?
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: Lahso Questions
I never fully understood what it means besides what the acronym stands for, I am not sure what the operation requires of the pilot.
Boaz.
Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
RE: Lahso Questions
| Quoting Chamonix (Thread starter): How does one get LAHSO-rated? Is it the trickiest of all techniques? |
As far as I can remember the company has to have it in their op-specs. It's not necessarily tricky but it's not something I want to do. A lot can go wrong. At my company we are not allowed to accept a LAHSO except at CYYZ but since we hardly go there, it's not really an issue for us. If it is being broadcast on ATIS that they are doing the LAHSO operation, when we check on with approach or tower we just advise we can not accept them and it's never been a problem.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
RE: Lahso Questions
LAHSO= land and hold short operations. it is used at airports where there are two intersecting runways, and the control tower would like to use both of them.
there is no LAHSO rating, but it falls to the pilot to decide if they can take the clearance. once you accept a LHASO clearance it is binding and it essentially gives you a shorter runway to land on.
My guess is no, because I believe LHASO is only used in a visual conditions (it is kind of hard to stop before a runway if you can't see it)
| Quoting Chamonix (Thread starter): How does one get LAHSO-rated? |
there is no LAHSO rating, but it falls to the pilot to decide if they can take the clearance. once you accept a LHASO clearance it is binding and it essentially gives you a shorter runway to land on.
| Quoting Chamonix (Thread starter): Can one do a CAT III B LAHSO? |
My guess is no, because I believe LHASO is only used in a visual conditions (it is kind of hard to stop before a runway if you can't see it)
Boiler Up!
RE: Lahso Questions
| Quoting Chamonix (Thread starter): Can one do a CAT III B LAHSO? |
No, on a CAT 3B landing the ILS critical area needs to be kept clear, having traffic rolling through an intersecting runway would violate that.
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RE: Lahso Questions
| Quoting web500sjc (Reply 3): LAHSO= land and hold short operations. it is used at airports where there are two intersecting runways, and the control tower would like to use both of them. |
Doesn't have to be a runway that you hold short of. Can be a taxiway as well.
-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
RE: Lahso Questions
| Quoting lowrider (Reply 4): No, on a CAT 3B landing the ILS critical area needs to be kept clear, having traffic rolling through an intersecting runway would violate that. |
I wouldn't accept that clearance anyway - if I'm going to be expected to stop before a certain point, I want to be able to see that point. I wouldn't accept the clearance unless the weather was basic VFR or better. Of course, it's all academic, since my current company doesn't allow us to accept the clearances at all (even though we can get down and stopped in 3000 feet easily, making LAHSO an absolute non-event), but if I were flying on my own....
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
RE: Lahso Questions
| Quoting Chamonix (Thread starter): Is there a list of LAHSO-approved airports? |
No. All an airport needs to get LAHSO ops approval from FAA is an acceptable reason and proper paperwork.
| Quoting Chamonix (Thread starter): How does one get LAHSO-rated? |
There is no "LAHSO rating."
| Quoting Chamonix (Thread starter): Is it the trickiest of all techniques? |
No. The available runway is reduced.
| Quoting Chamonix (Thread starter): Can one do a CAT III B LAHSO? |
No. AIM indicates 1000/3 as minimum weather required for LAHSO ops.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
RE: Lahso Questions
| Quoting AAR90 (Reply 7): No. All an airport needs to get LAHSO ops approval from FAA is an acceptable reason and proper paperwork. |
Actually its a lot more complicated than that, we thought about getting it for our airport but decided against it, since it required meetings with the airport, pilot groups, airline groups, the FAA, and a certification process all to allow two cessnas to land on intersecting runways.
Pilots are idiots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
RE: Lahso Questions
My last company didn't allow any LAHSOs. Not sure of the exact statistics, but AFAIK, they did show several incidents a year before airlines started to refuse them.
Even when flying GA, I often refuse because it's simply one risk that I can exclude very easily and my mind doesn't need to be focused on stopping shorter than I have to.
It's mostly psychological when I do accept them and keep thinking "I must stop", since often the intersection is only reducing the runway length by 1000' or so ... out of 8000' ... not exactly a struggle for a Baron or C172 - but somehow it's still in my mind bugging me
Jimbo
Even when flying GA, I often refuse because it's simply one risk that I can exclude very easily and my mind doesn't need to be focused on stopping shorter than I have to.
It's mostly psychological when I do accept them and keep thinking "I must stop", since often the intersection is only reducing the runway length by 1000' or so ... out of 8000' ... not exactly a struggle for a Baron or C172 - but somehow it's still in my mind bugging me
Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
RE: Lahso Questions
LAHSO operations were very common when I was training and then instructing at YYC from 1999-2004 (all of YYC's 3 runways intersect another runway). However it now appears that these operations no longer happen, or are very rare.
I do remember AA being the first airline that I heard on the radio indicate that they could not perform a LAHSO for ATC (probably around 2003).
I do remember AA being the first airline that I heard on the radio indicate that they could not perform a LAHSO for ATC (probably around 2003).
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RE: Lahso Questions
| Quoting Chamonix (Thread starter): How does one get LAHSO-rated? |
There is no LAHSO rating. Any pilot can perform a LAHSO operation.
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RE: Lahso Questions
| Quoting chrisco1204 (Reply 11): Any pilot can perform a LAHSO operation. |
As long as they aren't a student pilot.
-DiamondFlyer
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RE: Lahso Questions
I don't see the issue. We do it, though not often but the criteria are such that you shouldn't compromise safety nor use max braking. we have a list of requirements and it eliminates most gotchas.
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RE: Lahso Questions
I train out of Daytona and have been asked it once. We took it but we had like 4000 feet to stop... we only needed like 600 so it was not a problem if I fly by myself I do not think i would take it.
RE: Lahso Questions
As a general rule we decline when asked...why take on the liability?
Any ATCers out there who can tell us what percentage of guys accept LAHSO requests? I would think it's pretty low.
Any ATCers out there who can tell us what percentage of guys accept LAHSO requests? I would think it's pretty low.
RE: Lahso Questions
How common are they at major airports?
CLT for example? would LAHSO be a common thing there, or just not an uncommon thing, or is it completely rare?
CLT for example? would LAHSO be a common thing there, or just not an uncommon thing, or is it completely rare?
Things that fly, Girls and Planes...
RE: Lahso Questions
At ORD it used to be standard practice for 22R LAHSO 9R/27L. Like 6600 feet available. Since 9L/27R has been in open I don't think they do it much anymore, but correct me if I'm wrong.
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RE: Lahso Questions
| Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 17): At ORD it used to be standard practice for 22R LAHSO 9R/27L. Like 6600 feet available. Since 9L/27R has been in open I don't think they do it much anymore, but correct me if I'm wrong. |
Correct. We (AA & UA) used to get that regularly until the airlines/unions/FAA came up with a more "structured" (read: restrictive) LAHSO procedures for airline use. When the "new" procedures came out AA pilots could only accept LAHSO to specific runway combinations (and acft configurations) that are listed in our AA airport pages. At ORD, that means Rwy-28 LAHSO Twy-S (IIRC) is about the only remaining combination (don't have my Jepps with me). Rwy-32R has been "shortened" so that LAHSO has gone away as well. Still regularly see it in use at DFW and I know we have a number of other places with LAHSO is listed.
| Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 8): Actually its a lot more complicated than that, |
The specific steps an airport has to go through are complex (this IS gov't we're talking about); however, the basic "this is what it is" policy is not... especially when trying to explain the basics of LAHSO to the uninitiated.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
RE: Lahso Questions
| Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 12): As long as they aren't a student pilot. |
Yes, AFAIK this was a change in 2000, which was part of several changes to LAHSO. During my flight training this was not a restriction.
Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!