Do Crew Have To Stay In A Hotel On Layovers?

blueflyer · Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:33 pm

That may seem like a silly question, but I came up with it upon hearing two UA F/As talking in a galley. One was boasting to the other that the city they were going to have their layover at was where she lives, and that she was planning to sleep home and get paid for it.

I can think of a dozen reasons why airlines wouldn't (shouldn't?) allow this practice, but I am not crew, so I thought it worth asking whether it is allowed. If it's not allowed, is it nevertheless doable? I suppose one could always pretend to go out of the hotel for an "evening walk" and come back in time for breakfast after a "morning run."

shamrock321 · Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:39 pm

Some cities we are not allowed to leave the hotel compound, in other cities were staff may be from our companies policy is once it is cleared with the captain on the layover, then it is fine!

Acey559 · Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:46 pm

At Eagle we're allowed to sleep at home if we overnight in our hometown. We do have to call the hotel and cancel our room, but we're free to do that.

wilco737 · Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:03 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Thread starter):

Well, I have not really heard that my company forbid me to leave the hotel. But they recommend not to go out due to political reasons or any other reason.
I usually stay in the hotel, but every once in a while, when I have more time off at the destination, I'll drop my cell phone number to the Captain and head out.
Of course you always have to make sure to be back on time and ready to fly. So not incredibly exhausted because you were on a long private trip or so.
I once had a little over 4 days off on YYZ, so I headed over to YVR and the other time to YYC. Was back in YYZ 12 hours before my flight, so enough time to get enough rest before my flight...
In some countries we are not allowed to leave the city as the Visa is only for the City. Mainly in China I know about that.

wilco737

goboeing · Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:06 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Thread starter):
I can think of a dozen reasons why airlines wouldn't (shouldn't?) allow this practice

Do you mind listing all of them that you can think of?

I'm curious.

lowrider · Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:44 pm

Our company doesn't care what you do on a layover so long as you show up for the next flight fit to fly, and you don't require bail. Beyond that, we are adults entrusted with large amounts of valuable cargo and expensive aircraft and are generally trusted to manage our own affairs when on a layover.

jetblast · Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:25 am

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 4):

As am I. I know of several crew that have stayed with friends/family in their destination city.

tb727 · Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:10 am

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 4):
Do you mind listing all of them that you can think of?

Some people just like to beat up on crews. I used to have a dispatcher that expected us to stay in our rooms 24/7 until we had a trip(doing on call freight charter in a Learjet) and that included eating meals. It can be anywhere from 10 hours to 2 weeks waiting for a trip. Man was she always mad when we were out eating when she gave us a 45 minute wheels up time! As long as it's reasonable, I go out and do what I want when waiting to go fly.

Quoting lowrider (Reply 5):
and you don't require bail.

It puts the company in an entertaining spot when the flight has to go and you are too far away for the replacement guy to come in though! Hmmm is the bail cheaper than the last minute airline ticket cost....

bristolflyer · Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:17 am

Quoting jetblast (Reply 6):
I know of several crew that have stayed with friends/family in their destination city.

Does the airline give them money for doing so? I would have thought this is a good deal all round...cheaper for the airline, nicer for the employee etc

jetblast · Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:22 am

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 8):
Does the airline give them money for doing so? I would have thought this is a good deal all round...cheaper for the airline, nicer for the employee etc

Not sure, actually...I work airport ops and occasionally we have some crew that show up at the terminal a bit earlier for their departure than the rest of the crew, as they were staying somewhere other than the hotel.

JETPILOT · Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:59 am

When I flew For BAX Global and flew TOL-JFK I went home every night. I told the director of operations that I was going to be iving home and he told me that I wasn't going to get my per diem. I replied OK put me in the hotel then. He said.. well come to think of it it's OK you go home. Paying me my per diem was chepaer than getting me a room for two in a NY hotel for two weeks AND giving me perdiem. So I got to go home and get my per diem as well.

Perfect job. I reported to the airport at 10:00PM for an 11PM departure. We arrived back at JFK at 7Am and I was in my bed at home by 8AM. Got to love it.

We didn't fly on Saturday or Sunday so I would go and pick up the crew and take them out on Saturday nights. The NY motel was a dump and it was right at the airport. It was a long walk to any food. I would bring home cooked meals for the guys once or twice a week. Those were good times!

e38 · Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:09 am

Quoting blueflyer (thread starter), "I can think of a dozen reasons why airlines wouldn't (shouldn't?) allow this practice, but I am not crew, so I thought it worth asking whether it is allowed."

Many crewmembers who do not live in the same city in which they are based (i.e., commuters) will routinely bid trips with layovers in their hometowns. (This is in the United States). It's not a big deal. If you are going to spend 13 or 14 nights away from home each month staying in a hotel, the opportunity to have an extra night or two at home is considered quite a nice bonus in the course of a monthly schedule.

Also quoting blueflyer, "I suppose one could always pretend to go out of the hotel for an "evening walk" and come back in time for breakfast after a "morning run."

Blueflyer, you don't have to be "sneaky" about it. Here's how it works--after landing at the layover city, when the rest of the crews heads to the hotel shuttle pick-up area, the other crewmember rides the employee shuttle to the employee lot, gets in his/her car and drives home. The next day, the crewmember drives back to the employee parking lot, rides the employee shuttle to the terminal and meets the rest of the crew at the gate.

Of course, you always tell your fellow crewmembers where you will be, and leave one of them your home/cell phone number and you always call your airline's "crew hotel desk" or "crew accommodations desk" and tell them what you are doing. I've never heard of the hotel desk or crew accommodation desk taking exception to this.

Personally, I think it would be very unusual to check in and stay at a hotel when my home is only a short distance away.

e38

nws2002 · Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:22 am

I've done this many times even though I live in my base city. It is fun to visit with family/friends when you are in their city and with short overnights is is usually easier to stay with them instead of at the hotel. I always let my fellow crewmembers know and pass along my cell phone number. Never been an issue before.

PGNCS · Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:24 am

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 4):
Quoting blueflyer (Thread starter):
I can think of a dozen reasons why airlines wouldn't (shouldn't?) allow this practice

Do you mind listing all of them that you can think of?

I'm curious.

Yeah, I can't wait to hear this either.

WNCrew · Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:25 am

Sometimes I'll stay with family or friends vs the hotel. It's nobody's business but my own as long as I show up for report. It's a courtesy to let the hotel know you won't be there. Nothing is different in terms of pay, but the company can then use that hotel room for unscheduled crews or reroutes etc.

Max Q · Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:39 am

It's not an issue,

Wherever you go on a layover is up to you, just leave a contact number with the Captain and / or scheduling in case they need to reach you in the event of a change of plans and be at the Aircraft the next day at the time you are supposed to be there.

Of course you should be paid per diem, you are away from your home base.

Fabo · Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:51 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 3):
Well, I have not really heard that my company forbid me to leave the hotel. But they recommend not to go out due to political reasons or any other reason.

Some companies may require the crews not to leave the hotel in some cases. I think I heard that was the case for ex. when there was civil unrest in destination, but then again, I dont know how they would react if the crew member was home in that destination.

longhauler · Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:52 pm

Quoting lowrider (Reply 5):
so long as you show up for the next flight fit to fly, and you don't require bail

Good one!

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 8):
Does the airline give them money for doing so? I would have thought this is a good deal all round...cheaper for the airline, nicer for the employee etc

At my airline, if you do not require your hotel room, you may cancel it in advance, (through Crew Scheduling) and you are paid compensation for the room not used.

If however you do not stay at your booked hotel, you are required to be "contactable" during the layover.

What I have noticed often, is the reverse. If a crew member is laying over at their home town, often their spouse will join them at the hotel, for a little "break". Get Grandma to take care of the kids!

blueflyer · Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:27 pm

Thanks for the answers, very enlightening.

I didn't think that having potential reasons why airlines would not want to give crew the ability to skip the hotel would be so controversial. For what it's worth, I don't have an opinion or a stake, and I was asking in the context of international flights, since the conversation I overheard was on one. As for specific reasons, they'd range from safety obviously (in some cities), to health (food-wise), to easily gathering crew together for irrops, to insurance (my employer's travel insurance doesn't kick in if I skip the hotel), dispatch not trusting crew to report on time in a "foreign" place, labor relations, etc...

Quoting tb727 (Reply 7):
Some people just like to beat up on crews.

I suppose if you think I am pre-disposed to beat up on crews, you didn't spend two seconds wondering why I didn't bother mentioning the flight, date and galley position before I knew whether this practice was kosher or not. Perhaps now you should.

[Edited 2011-12-13 07:51:10]

tb727 · Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:42 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 18):
I suppose if you think I am pre-disposed to beat up on crews, you didn't spend two seconds wondering why I didn't bother mentioning the flight, date and galley position before I knew whether this practice was kosher or not. Perhaps now you should.

No, that wasn't the case, sorry if it came off that way. I was just having a discussion the other day on this very subject with the guys I was flying with.

RJLover · Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:15 pm

Quoting Longhauler (Reply 17):
At my airline, if you do not require your hotel room, you may cancel it in advance, (through Crew Scheduling) and you are paid compensation for the room not used.

The same is true for our crew over here (at Jazz).

pilotpip · Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:13 pm

Part of the attraction to this job is visiting new places. Hotel rooms all look the same. If I have a long enough overnight I'm usually out exploring if safe to do so.

DashTrash · Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:21 pm

Quoting lowrider (Reply 5):
and you don't require bail.

Kill joys.....

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 8):
Does the airline give them money for doing so? I would have thought this is a good deal all round...cheaper for the airline, nicer for the employee etc

Airlines by nature are extremely cheap. I've never heard of any US airline giving compensation to a crewmember for not staying in the hotel.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 15):
or scheduling

I hope you're kidding. Scheduling doesn't own you during your rest periods (I hope anyway)

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 18):
I didn't think that having potential reasons why airlines would not want to give crew the ability to skip the hotel would be so controversial.

I can completely understand this statement from someone who's never flown for an airline.

At many regionals, and probably a lot of majors / legacies, scheduling thinks they own you. I've heard of them sending police to someone's hotel room under the guise they were concerned for the pilots' safety because "he was late for a trip and hasn't been answering calls on either his cell or hotel phone". In reality he didn't pick up those phones because he knew it was scheduling, knew they wanted to jack with his trip the next day and was under no obligation to answer the phone. He wasn't going to speak with them until reporting for duty at the appointed time. That is until the cops show up pounding on his hotel door.

I knew of one other guy too who told scheduling he was going home for the night, they said no, he went anyway. They called the hotel to find out if he was there or not and then turned him over to the Chief Pilot under the guise of insubordination. Again, scheduling doesn't own you on the overnights. There was nothing in the FOM or CBA stating you had to sleep in the company provided hotel room at the time.

When I left the crappy airline and went elsewhere, it was completely different. The company booked a hotel for every overnight, including ones in base if you lived more than 2 hrs away according to Mapquest. If you don't want the hotel, they cancel it. Happens often. If you lived more than 2 hrs away, they'll still book the hotel if you wanted it (but for some reason I'm thinking you had to pay out of pocket).

goboeing · Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:45 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 18):
As for specific reasons, they'd range from safety obviously (in some cities), to health (food-wise), to easily gathering crew together for irrops, to insurance (my employer's travel insurance doesn't kick in if I skip the hotel), dispatch not trusting crew to report on time in a "foreign" place, labor relations, etc...

What does labor relations mean?

futureualpilot · Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:10 am

I know a lot of people who bid for specific overnights to be home more. They'll commute to work, then be home and extra night or two every week. Our contract says if you're away from base on company business you get per diem. As long as you show up for duty the next day on time and fit for duty, nobody cares.

As far as interruptions during our rest period by the company, they can call but it resets our rest period, so they avoid it as much as possible.

Starlionblue · Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:36 am

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 23):
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 18):
As for specific reasons, they'd range from safety obviously (in some cities), to health (food-wise), to easily gathering crew together for irrops, to insurance (my employer's travel insurance doesn't kick in if I skip the hotel), dispatch not trusting crew to report on time in a "foreign" place, labor relations, etc...

What does labor relations mean?

I guess blueflyer means if there is a labor dispute going on. But I don't see how this would or should stop crew from leaving the hotel.

pilotpip · Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:16 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 25):

I guess blueflyer means if there is a labor dispute going on. But I don't see how this would or should stop crew from leaving the hotel.

If there's a labor dispute going on the company has bigger issues than me being in a hotel room. Contrary to what scheduling and the company may think, they don't control me and once I'm off duty the time is mine to do what I please.

Max Q · Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:32 am

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 22):

Quoting Max Q (Reply 15):
or scheduling

I hope you're kidding. Scheduling doesn't own you during your rest periods (I hope anyway)

Not sure why you would think they do.

Since I am the Captain, they need to know where I am in case of a change in plans.

They need a cell and a land line number.

Pretty simple really..

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