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timz
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

Helicopters That Couldn't Take Off Vertically?

Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

New York Airways started flying Vertol 44s around NY City in 1958

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dboo/1637850914/

But in Av Week 9 Jan 1961 the airline's president says with the turbine Vertol 107 it will be possible "for the first time" to "operate with vertical takeoff capability instead of the takeoff roll necessary with the single-engine piston H-44B."

I guess he means with a full load-- but how much of a roll would a loaded V44 need? They flew them to Wall Street, where the heliport was on a pier in the East River-- was the heliport out in the river because the V44 needed a wide obstruction-free arc around it? Was that typical for piston helicopters?
 
SlamClick
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Helicopters That Couldn't Take Off Vertically?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:34 pm

I flew a couple of the early piston helicopters, the Bell 47 and the Hiller 12 series. I flew them near sea level and at density altitudes as high as 8800 feet.

As a general statement, nearer sea level they would take off vertically TO a hover but not FROM a hover. That is, they would lift off vertically to a 3-foot (skid height) hover, but would not go straight up out of ground effect. It would be necessary to get from the hover to forward flight by easing them forward in ground effect until they slipped through translation then they'd begin to climb.

Had a couple of interesting moments trying to get them airborne at higher DAs. Once, at Jordan Valley Oregon I had to make a running takeoff in a skid-mounted helicopter. It would not hover with just me aboard and full fuel. It would get "light on the skids" so I lifted on the collective until it was light in the gravel, then started inching forward, slowly picking up speed. After about fifty yards of dragging the skids through the loose gravel strip it went through translation and flew off the ground like a fixed-wing.

On the other hand the CH-54 beat an F-4 Phantom to ten thousand feet. It would go straight up off the ground in right smart fashion. Either that or it simply blew the earth away from it.
 
HaveBlue
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:01 pm

RE: Helicopters That Couldn't Take Off Vertically?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:49 pm

Slam! What's up ole friend! Good to see ya back.

Quoting timz (Thread starter):
president says with the turbine Vertol 107 it will be possible "for the first time" to "operate with vertical takeoff capability instead of the takeoff roll necessary with the single-engine piston H-44B."

Interesting, I didn't know they 'had' to use a rolling take off to get airborne.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 1):
On the other hand the CH-54 beat an F-4 Phantom to ten thousand feet. It would go straight up off the ground in right smart fashion.

I hope somewhere there is a video of at least the beginning of that climb. Sweet! I got the chance back during the 1998 fires here in Daytona Beach to watch the Erikson Skycranes (3 of em), the Heavy Lift Skycrane (1), KMax, S-61's, CH-46's and a lone Huey work out of the Deland airport. My dads vietnam buddy Gary flew for Erikson at the time so I got to get pics of my daughter in the chopper. They are extremely impressive machines, always a favorite of mine. Unfortunately after the job was done the HL Skycrane, on its way back to CA threw a rotor blade and crashed killing all on board. Very sad.
 
SlamClick
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Helicopters That Couldn't Take Off Vertically?

Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:07 am

HB, I wasn't around but it is my understanding that it began as a bar bet at the O Club at Gowen Field, Boise during summer camp; NVANG F-4 pilot understimating the CH-54. F-4 had to take off normally, the Sikorsky just pulled the collective up into his armpit and went straight up for quite a ways.
 
dragon6172
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Helicopters That Couldn't Take Off Vertically?

Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:52 pm

They flew the 107s to the pad at the top of the Pan Am building. Not sure if they did that with the older piston powered helos. Takes a lot of power to make that sort of approach and takeoff.

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