Airliners.net

Quoting woodreau (Reply 4): Not quite, if the aircraft required a type rating, you could act as PIC by having a type rating on your pilot certificate, an ATP is not required. You could act as PIC of a 747 with a private pilot certificate with a 747 type rating, you just can't carry any passengers cargo for hire, etc. All the limitations of the pilot certificate applies to the type rating.

I should have been more specific. "Commercial OPS" But I hoped people would understand that as this is what the thread is about.

Quoting smartt1982 (Reply 6): So with this SIC rating, would the first officer not be as knowledgeable or as skilled in operating the aircraft as the captain? Would it really be that much more expensive to do a full type rating?

Training at the two airlines I've been at is the same regardless of seat. In fact I've had upgrading captains in my class as a new hire in both. Every year at recurrent we are in the same room as captains as well.

While we trained on all the maneuvers that are required in an ATP ride, we do not demonstrate a single engine go around, taxing or a rejected take off during our annual checkride. As a result of the new regulations that arose during the colgan crash we will have to do this on our next annual proficiency check as we will be getting an ATP (if we pass).

Quoting smartt1982 (Reply 6): Is this dangerous, how come they are only looking for first officers to have ATPs and not also full type ratings? I take it this is a result of the Colgan Air Crash.

IMO, no. It's not dangerous. Despite not having an ATP, I have almost 4000 hours in the type I now fly. I know my limitations and wouldn't hesitate to speak up if the situation warrented. It is my personal opinion that the regulartory changes that came about from the colgan crash completely missed the point. Both pilots in the front of the Q that night would have been there under the new regulations. The only difference is that the FO would have had a slightly different title on a piece of plastic in her wallet. Anybody and everybody, regardless of experience, makes stupid mistakes when they are fatigued. There have been a number of crashes because of fatigue. When a controller fell asleep the FAA changed the rules within 2 weeks. Despite numerous crashes where the NTSB cited fatigue as a contributing factor they gave airlines a couple years to deal with new rules because the airlines cried about how much money it would cost.

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 7): My apologies if I gave the wrong impression about terminology, it is a minor thing but it is more common now, at least among flight crews in the states to hear the "First Officer" or "FO" for short rather than "co-pilot." Just trying to offer some help!

Hey no worries at all, I hope I did not come across the wrong way with my response, If so I apologise.

All good fun

Quoting Smartt1982 (Thread starter), "when is the best time and best way (if at all) to ask about a look in the flight deck?"

Smarrt1982, well, it depends. You can visit the flight deck either before the flight departs the origin airport or after arriving at the destination. Here's what it depends on . . .

If you go to the flight deck before the flight--during the boarding process--often the crew is busy working on preflight procedures; programming the Flight Management System; or conducting pre-flight briefings. If they are not busy, it is an excellent time for the crew to give you a briefing on the route of flight, the aircraft, the enroute weather, or anything else you may be interested in. Keep in mind, the pilots will be thrilled to know you are interested in their aircraft, but they may not be able to devote their full attention to you and you may feel your visit to the flight deck is rushed.

You can always visit the flight deck after landing at your destination during the deplaning process. However, keep in mind, depending on the situation (for example, a New York based crew of an American Airlines flight arriving at JFK), the pilots may have already left the aircraft and while you will have plenty of time to look at the flight deck, without feeling rushed, it is possible that none of the pilots will be there to talk to.

If, however, you are flying BA to JFK, the chances are good the pilots will still be there, waiting for all the passengers to deplane; and then proceeding to customs/immigration with the cabin crew.

I just re-read your post, "I am flying with UA from Heathrow to Newark." In this case, the crew will probably be based at Newark (a former Continental Airlines crew) and the pilots may leave the flight deck as soon as their post flight duties are complete to get through customs, and go home, or to catch another flight if they "commute" to and from EWR.

In this case, you may want to visit the flight deck before departing Heathrow. And, if you feel rushed, just say, "I know you are kind of busy right now, would it be OK for me to come back after we land in Newark?"

When you get on, just inform one of the flight attendants--sometimes it helps if you talk to the lead flight attendant or purser--that you are interested in a visit to the flight deck. In this "post 911" era, it is possible the flight attendant will ask, "Why do you want to see the flight deck?" then just be honest and state you are very interested in aviation, you would like to be a pilot someday, and/or this is your first flight on the particular type of aircraft. Be enthusiastic about your desire to see the flight deck.

Also, if the pilots have the time, they love to visit with airplane enthusiasts and, time permitting, will talk your ear off about the airplane, etc. Do not be concerned you will annoy the crew; you won't!

Finally, there is nothing wrong with the term "co-pilot." You don't need to apologize to anyone for using it--perfectly good aviation term. In the United States, however, the common terminology is "Captain" and "First Officer" when dealing with commercial aviation and "Aircraft Commander" and "Co-Pilot" in the military environment (i.e.,C-17, C-130, KC-135, for example).

As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing wrong with the terms "stewardess" or "cockpit" although these days of political correctness you most frequently hear "flight attendant" and "flight deck."

Have a good trip.

e38

[Edited 2012-07-12 20:15:46]

[Edited 2012-07-12 20:22:23]