Evolution Of No Smoking/fasten Seat Belt Signs

1337Delta764 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:46 am

On older airliners, we all rembmer the No Smoking and Fasten Seat Belt signs were mostly worded instead of symbolic. However, once the familiar symbolic signs came along, there has been an evolution in design for the symbols.

This style of symbols are used on most Boeing aircraft today:

However, the symbols were not always this way for Boeing. Early 767s used a different style, where the No Smoking sign had an X instead of a crossed circle, and the Fasten Seat Belt sign was all white and (I think) was outlined instead of solid. More recently, Boeing has changed the color of the arrow on the Fasten Seat Belt sign from red to green on the 787 and Sky Interior 737.

This style symbols was frequently used by McDonnell Douglas up until the MD-90:

With the MD-90, McD changed the design of the symbols to the same style ones as Boeing.

Here are the typical Airbus-style symbols used today:

However, I know they were different on the A300 and A310 (I think the arrow on the Fasten Seat Belt Sign was red instead of green).

So, what is the reason for all these changes in the designs of the symbols?

[Edited 2012-09-20 20:01:01]

jetblast · Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:47 am

I'm not sure anyone else noticed that there were any changes.

1337Delta764 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:08 am

Quoting jetblast (Reply 1):
I'm not sure anyone else noticed that there were any changes.

Well, the three images I posted were obviously different. McDonnell Douglas switched to the "Boeing style" symbols with the MD-90. I think the style shown in the Boeing example I posted debuted with the 757, and was later applied to the 737, 744, and 767. recently changed the color of the arrow of the Fasten Seat Belt sign from red to green on the 787 and Sky Interior 737.

[Edited 2012-09-20 20:11:45]

PHX787 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:11 am

Some planes now, instead of the no smoking sign, they have a sign that says "no electronic devices" or something like that. I think I saw that on the E175 when I flew to DTW once. I'm not sure (it was a bit ago)

1337Delta764 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:13 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Some planes now, instead of the no smoking sign, they have a sign that says "no electronic devices" or something like that. I think I saw that on the E175 when I flew to DTW once. I'm not sure (it was a bit ago)

Yep, that is definitely a growing trend. Also, DL's recently modded 757s (the ones with the new overhead LCD monitors) have replaced the illuminated No Smoking sign with a blue illuminated Wi-Fi sign, with a non-illuminated No Smoking symbol next to it.

ridgid727 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:31 am

Interesting, but the in flight signs that have shown sexism over the years are the flight attendant call buttons. Love the early ones that look like Jane Jetson the cartoon character.

1337Delta764 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:04 am

Also, the L-1011 was the only aircraft type that I have ever seen with illuminated "LIFE VEST UNDER SEAT" signs. They turned on and off simultaneously with the "FASTEN SEAT BELT" signs. (Every L-1011 I have been on had worded signs, rather than symbols).

[Edited 2012-09-20 21:07:30]

Scooter01 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:11 am

Just for comparison, I'll post some photos of signs in the Dakota Norway's LN-WND

The aircraft was built as a C-53D in 1943, I'm not sure when the signs were installed.

Scooter01

[Edited 2012-09-20 23:38:09]

Type-Rated · Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:25 am

I remember back in the 70's & 80's DC9's used to have a "No Smoking" & "Fasten Belts" sign on the ceiling at the front of the cabin only right at the bulkhead behind the galley. There were no individual signs at each seat.

On planes with images on the F/A call button where it shows a person with a skirt on sometimes I think "Female or Drag Queen"?

cws818 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:01 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Quoting jetblast (Reply 1):
I'm not sure anyone else noticed that there were any changes.

Well, the three images I posted were obviously different.

Yes, but those signs are not something that a large number of people pay more than passing attention to. They are a minor feature, nothing more.

N1120A · Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:47 am

Quoting cws818 (Reply 9):
Yes, but those signs are not something that a large number of people pay more than passing attention to. They are a minor feature, nothing more.

There are people who dedicate their careers to such "minor features"

DL_Mech · Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:06 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
(Every L-1011 I have been on had worded signs, rather than symbols).

Air Canada had pictorial signs on their L-1011s

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5221712429/in/photostream/

1337Delta764 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:31 pm

Quoting cws818 (Reply 9):
Yes, but those signs are not something that a large number of people pay more than passing attention to. They are a minor feature, nothing more.

Of course, the switch from words to symbols was to make the signs language-neutral.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 11):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5221712429/in/photostream/

I remember flying ATA's Big Ed, where the signs were in both English and Japanese.

pu · Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:55 pm

Smart people notice little details!
...the sheep never notice the details of anything.

Anyway in a previous life I worked on large public projects where signage and communications were a design factor. I am pretty sure that the switch from red -----> green on the seatbelt signs is because red is nearly universally associated with danger and for warnings against something NOT to do,
...............while greens/blues are associated with guidelines for desired behaviour. So having a red arrow on the fasten seatbelt sign was a bit counter-intuitive in that the red colour implied something you should not be doing.
.
This is actually its own niche industry or discipline, there are people and companies that do nothing but speacilise in how to communicate public messages without words.

Pu

goosebayguy · Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:02 pm

I do wonder why we still have the no smoking signs. I can understand these signs back in the days when smoking was allowed on board and coming into land etc a no smoking sign was needed. These days though its simply never allowed at any time so why have it?

DocLightning · Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:07 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Some planes now, instead of the no smoking sign, they have a sign that says "no electronic devices" or something like that. I think I saw that on the E175 when I flew to DTW once. I'm not sure (it was a bit ago)

Definitely a growing trend. The "No Smoking" symbol is usually painted/decal'ed (is that a verb?) onto some surface. Lights make sense when the rule is only intermittently in place because they can be turned on and off. Placards make more sense for an "all the time, no exceptions" rule like no smoking. You are NEVER at any time allowed to smoke on an airliner.

That wasn't the case until the late 1980's IIRC.

flymia · Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
Definitely a growing trend. The "No Smoking" symbol is usually painted/decal'ed (is that a verb?) onto some surface. Lights make sense when the rule is only intermittently in place because they can be turned on and off. Placards make more sense for an "all the time, no exceptions" rule like no smoking. You are NEVER at any time allowed to smoke on an airliner.

That wasn't the case until the late 1980's IIRC.

Related to this subject even though it is hobby the overhead panel on the PMDG 737NG add on the overhead panel instead of having a "no smoking" switch has a "chime" switch.

Looking at this the 787 does not have a no-smoking light switch.

I remember when I flew QF from LAX to AKL they turned the smoking sign off at night to give off as little light as possible but they reminded the pax that smoking is never allowed.

1337Delta764 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:40 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 16):
Related to this subject even though it is hobby the overhead panel on the PMDG 737NG add on the overhead panel instead of having a "no smoking" switch has a "chime" switch.

Looking at this the 787 does not have a no-smoking light switch.

I remember when I flew QF from LAX to AKL they turned the smoking sign off at night to give off as little light as possible but they reminded the pax that smoking is never allowed.

DL's 737NGs and 772LRs do not have illuminated No Smoking signs; they simply have the symbols painted on. Also, even though DL's 764ERs, 772ERs, and some of the newest PMDL 752s have illuminated No Smoking signs, the signs do not flash on takeoff and descent; two chimes are simply played.

[Edited 2012-09-21 12:41:01]

bristolflyer · Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:26 pm

what is the future of no smoking signs...anyone want to guess? You think they will be used forever or will people realize there's 'no smoking' is the 'default setting'?

1337Delta764 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:40 pm

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 18):
what is the future of no smoking signs...anyone want to guess? You think they will be used forever or will people realize there's 'no smoking' is the 'default setting'?

The symbols still have to be visible to everyone, however, they don't have to be illuminated and can be placed anywhere from the PSU to the back of the tray tables.

hiloboy1 · Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:43 pm

I can't remember which airline it was, but this last year on one of my flights it had a picture of a cell phone or electronic's instead of the old "No Smoking" illumination sign.

Type-Rated · Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:22 am

Quoting hiloboy1 (Reply 20):
I can't remember which airline it was, but this last year on one of my flights it had a picture of a cell phone or electronic's instead of the old "No Smoking" illumination sign.

That seems to be the trend, I first noticed that a few years ago. The graphic either has a pictogram of a cell phone or laptop with the res circle crossed out over it.

1337Delta764 · Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:55 am

As a side topic, illuminated lavatory signs have also evolved as well.

Older Boeings typically had a blue light that indicated the lavatory was occupied. Later on, Boeing moved to worded lavatory signs, which were included standard on the 757, 767, 777, and 744. The 737 Classic continued to offer the blue light as standard, however, text-based signs were available as a customer upgrade; for example UA's ex-CO 737 Classics have them (in both English and Spanish). It wasn't until the 737NG and Signature Interior 767s that Boeing began to use symbols, indicated by a red X around a pictogram with a man and woman with a toilet in between them. The symbols were later enhanced on the 77L and 77W, where the symbol also indicates the location of the lavatories onboard the aircraft.

McDonnell Douglas, on the other hand, offered the choice of either words or symbols. On McD narrowbodies, illuminated lavatory signs were optional (rather than included standard); for example AA's MD-80s do not have any illuminated lavatory signs.

Airbus has always used symbols for the lavatory signs. On the A300 and A310, the occupied status was indicated by arrows below the symbol pointing to the occupied lavatories. Starting with the A320 and continuing to the A330, A340, and A380, Airbus now uses color-changing symbolic signs that are green when vacant and red when occupied.

[Edited 2012-09-21 18:00:22]

Viscount724 · Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:06 am

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 14):
I do wonder why we still have the no smoking signs. I can understand these signs back in the days when smoking was allowed on board and coming into land etc a no smoking sign was needed. These days though its simply never allowed at any time so why have it?

There are still many people who are flying for the first time and aren't familiar, especially in developing countries. For example, India has a rapidly-growing middle class, but only about 1% of the population has ever flown.

There are also still many parts of the world where smoking is still permitted in restaurants and public buildings etc.

Evolution Of No Smoking/fasten Seat Belt Signs

Evolution Of No Smoking/fasten Seat Belt Signs

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