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yak42
Posts: 668
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 2:40 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 44):
Yes they were fitted on delivery.
I saw them demonstrated at the factory at Toulouse.
But on delivery they were made inoperative because of a safety interlock problem, and they were never used. Later on they were removed.

I wonder if these are still a possible option that could be fitted, for example if Ryanair expressed interest in the type and insisted on integral airstairs.

Yak42s also have tail airstairs but not @ L1.

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[Edited 2013-05-12 07:43:55]
 
Strathpeffer
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 2:43 pm

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 50):

They're often specified on corporate ones. See here: http://dave--kelly.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/australian-a319.html?m=1
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asteriskceo
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 2:44 pm

I saw a WN 737 with the air stairs compartment located below the boarding door. I believe it was an airTran converted ship, and they most likely stripped out the stairs.
 
cschleic
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 3:07 pm

John Travolta's 707 has them in the front. I wonder if it is/was the only 707 with them?
 
yak42
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 3:12 pm

Quoting Strathpeffer (Reply 51):
They're often specified on corporate ones. See here: http://dave--kelly.blogspot.co.uk/20...l?m=1

Thanx!
 
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longhauler
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 3:21 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 39):
Lufthansa's original short fuselage 737-130 models had a unique rear integral air-stair then required the door to hinge downwards rather like a number of Biz-jets at the time.

It is very rare to have that rear door air-stair installation on an all passenger B737. All combi versions of the B737-200 had that rear air-stair.

At CP, our all passenger B737-200/300s had the forward air-stair, and all of our Combi B737-200s had the rear air-stair.
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citationjet
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 3:31 pm

Quoting cschleic (Reply 53):
John Travolta's 707 has them in the front. I wonder if it is/was the only 707 with them?

Really? If so, I never knew that. I am not sure where they would be located and stored. I don't see a small door below the passenger door:

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According to the Boeing website, the 727 was the "First large commercial airplane to carry its own built-in airstairs and auxiliary power unit and to feature single-point refueling for total independence of ground support equipment at through stops."
http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/727family/breakthrough.page

[Edited 2013-05-12 08:37:19]
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woodsboy
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 4:31 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 39):
Lufthansa's original short fuselage 737-130 models had a unique rear integral air-stair then required the door to hinge downwards rather like a number of Biz-jets at the time.

Just like the pictured LH 731, All of Alaska Airlines 737-200QCs had the same kind of L2 airstairs where the door folded down and the stairs folded out from the door. Of course this was very handy for all the remote airports they served with the freighters and since the front of the plane had cargo the front door was not able to be used for passengers..usually, unless it was configured in the full pax config. Incidently, the L1 door also had integral airstairs!
 
doulasc
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 4:38 pm

On Boeing 727s-Eastern was the only one I noticed that had self contained stairs at the front passenger loading door.Other airlines Boeing 727s i have seen did not have them because I saw no door underneath the front loading door. ALL had rear self contained stairs under the engines. I remember as kid in the 1960s I boarded a TWA 727 going up the rear stairs.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 4:41 pm

Delta's MD-88s have the L1 airstair door sealed shut. I don't know if they were ever used.
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Tomassjc
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 4:43 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 55):
It is very rare to have that rear door air-stair installation on an all passenger B737.

Air California had them on their original 6 all passenger aircraft, that were originally destined for Pacific before the Air West merger.

AS's oldest 737-400, N786AS, has forward air stairs. They have been deactivated, and I believe, removed for weight purposes, but you can still see the hatch under the L1 door where they used to extend.

I recall that Eastern had forward air stairs on several of their 727s, both -100 and -200 models. I remember using them in St Thomas and a few times in the old ATL terminal.

Tomas SJC
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FlyMKG
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 23):
But the ones in the 727 uniquely, had a dual function. They could support the airplane's weight and prevent the aircraft's nose from going up, if something went wrong during loading/unloading on ground.

While true on a 727-100, many airlines prohibit having the stairs down during loading on the -200. The increase in arm between the main wheels and the stairs on a -200 can be detrimental to the fuselage according to many. Most -200s have a tail stand which either hangs forward of the tailskid or one that is actually kept under pressure between the airplane and the ground (FedEx).

The -100 stairs also require an extra action to hydraulically over-center them compared to the -200. On a -100 once the stair lever is moved the stairs free fall down unless a button on top of the lever is pressed to provide hydraulic pressure to over-center them. The -200 has hydraulic pressure as soon as the stair lever is moved. Both of these of course assume a hydraulic pump is on.

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longhauler
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 60):
Air California had them on their original 6 all passenger aircraft, that were originally destined for Pacific before the Air West merger.

That's really interesting, and I start to wonder if maybe the rear air-stair was "invented" before the forward air-stair. At the time, all of the air-stair equipped aircraft of the day, like the B727-100, Caravelle, etc, would have had rear air-stairs. Maybe Boeing thought that was what sold, and so offered on the initial B737s.

Only later to offer the forward air-stair. I don't know, just trying to wonder why a rear air-stair would be offered on an all passenger aircraft.

Looking through the Air California pictures on here, I see one you mention. All passenger with a rear air-stair:


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It also answered another question ... were any equipped with both the rear and forward air-stair, and this one was!
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fanofjets
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 6:01 pm

Quoting bohica (Reply 12):
There were a couple L-1011's with them also.
Quoting antonovman (Reply 13):
Many years ago a british holiday airline called Courtline had them on their L1011 s and i think they came out of the lower galley.
I saw a picture once

Indeed - Lockheed used the prototype to build a set of stairs that were stowed in one of the rear cargo holds. I think Court Line ordered the option, but I doubt if anyone else did - they were very cumbersome and took up a lot of room in the cargo hold. The AirlinerTech book has a photo of this strange installation. The air stairs on the PSA bird are unique, as those were the only TriStars with the lower-deck lounge. Some of the PSA birds went to LTU, but I am not aware whether the German carrier used these.
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by738
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 6:04 pm

There was a fancy lift mechanism offered conversion for the 748 which came down to the tarmac !
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 6:20 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 64):
There was a fancy lift mechanism offered conversion for the 748 which came down to the tarmac !

Can you say that again.
Are you on a real HS 748, or a new fangled B747-800?
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 6:24 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 62):
Looking through the Air California pictures on here, I see one you mention. All passenger with a rear air-stair:



I believe Aloha had a few early all passenger 737s with dual integral air stairs as well. Actually, the Air Cal jet pictured was on lease from Aloha!

I'm sure it was an option for these carriers from Boeing, as most of the cities they served at the time were without jet ways. I know both Air Cal and Aloha had quick 15 minute ground times back in the day, and dual boarding/deplaning helped make that happen.

Nice to see the pic of the Air California bird at my home airport as well!

Tomas SJC.

[Edited 2013-05-12 11:27:17]
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 6:37 pm

Quoting fanofjets (Reply 63):
Indeed - Lockheed used the prototype to build a set of stairs that were stowed in one of the rear cargo holds. I think Court Line ordered the option, but I doubt if anyone else did - they were very cumbersome and took up a lot of room in the cargo hold. The AirlinerTech book has a photo of this strange installation.

Probably these, from the link I posted earlier

http://crimso.msk.ru/Images6/AE/AE73-6/24-1.jpg
 
okay
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 6:59 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 67):

That must be the coolest, but also the most quirky air stairs I have seen ! Thanks for the photo.
 
EIDL
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 7:47 pm

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 26):
That's why its surprising to find Ryanair with them, but they obviously did the sums and decided it was cheaper than paying for ground equipment. Do all Ryanair a/c have them or just a subfleet for specifc routes?

They often use ground equipment to L2 to speed boarding/unloading so its not an outright aversion to paying for it; its something that allows them to operate to airports with basically no facilities if required.
 
yeelep
Posts: 766
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 9:18 pm

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 57):
All of Alaska Airlines 737-200QCs had the same kind of L2 airstairs where the door folded down and the stairs folded out from the door. Of course this was very handy for all the remote airports they served with the freighters and since the front of the plane had cargo the front door was not able to be used for passengers..usually, unless it was configured in the full pax config. Incidently, the L1 door also had integral airstairs!

I'm pretty sure none of the AS -200's had L1 airstairs.

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 60):
AS's oldest 737-400, N786AS, has forward air stairs. They have been deactivated, and I believe, removed for weight purposes, but you can still see the hatch under the L1 door where they used to extend.

Your'e correct, the stairs have been removed. I think N786AS is also the only plane in the current fleet that was not delivered new to AS.
 
zanl188
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 11:50 pm

Quoting cschleic (Reply 53):
John Travolta's 707 has them in the front. I wonder if it is/was the only 707 with them?

It sure does. Airstairs were popular aftermarket additions to private 707s.


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Quoting CitationJet (Reply 56):
Really? If so, I never knew that. I am not sure where they would be located and stored. I don't see a small door below the passenger door:

Usually stowed in the cabin just inside and to the right of the L1 door.
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Viscount724
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 11:56 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 38):
F100 also had the option.

KLM's recently-retired Fokker 100st had a mix of the downward-opening airstair door and the regular sideways-opening door with no airstairs. Depended on the aircraft's original operator. Those delivered to North American carriers usually had the regular door without airstairs. If not mistaken all KLM Fokker 70s have the downward-opening airstair door.


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Fokker 100s with the 2 types of doors, airstair (left) and no airstairs (right). The lower edge of the standard door is much higher on the fuselage (at floor level) and there's a bare metal area on the fuselage around the door sill. There's also a small window in that type of door.


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F100 with the non-airstairs door open. It slides sideways against the fuselage like Airbus doors.


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Quoting longhauler (Reply 55):
At CP, our all passenger B737-200/300s had the forward air-stair, and all of our Combi B737-200s had the rear air-stair.

CP's 4 727-100s operated for a few years in the 1970s also had the forward airstair identical to the 732. I think that option was fairly rare on 727s. I don't think the 2 later CP 727-200s had the forward airstairs.
 
zanl188
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Sun May 12, 2013 11:57 pm

N88ZL had airstairs at the back door as well. I'm not familiar with that installation, not sure where it stows but I presume it goes in the cabin as well.


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Viscount724
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Mon May 13, 2013 12:27 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 62):
Looking through the Air California pictures on here, I see one you mention. All passenger with a rear air-stair:
LH 737-100s also had airstairs at both front and rear. The rear airstairs were the same as those on 737-200 combis. The rear airstairs door is wider than the standard door.


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As a sidenote, the aircraft in the photo on the left has the original ineffective 737 thrust reverser design. Early 737-100s/-200s with those reversers were all modified with the much longer nacelle as in the 2nd photo.

[Edited 2013-05-12 17:32:59]

[Edited 2013-05-12 17:33:55]

[Edited 2013-05-12 18:17:04]
 
zanl188
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Mon May 13, 2013 12:59 am

Not technically an airstair, but unusual enough that it should be included. USAF C-9As had a self contained ramp in the cargo door. Used for embarking litter patients.


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HAWK21M
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Tue May 14, 2013 9:26 am

Is the Airstair an option on the -NG and if so is the mechanism similiar to that of the -200.
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Viscount724
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Tue May 14, 2013 11:42 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 76):
Is the Airstair an option on the -NG and if so is the mechanism similiar to that of the -200.

As already mentioned, Ryanair have the airstairs on their 737-800s. I doubt they've changed since the first 737-100 in 1967. They look virtually identical in photos.
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Wed May 15, 2013 10:40 pm

Alot of G4 airplanes have the slot and the handle for the air stairs but those are taken out now. Also SY has stairs at the front of the aircraft I believe.
 
L-188
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Thu May 16, 2013 6:02 am

Quoting yeelep (Reply 70):
I'm pretty sure none of the AS -200's had L1 airstairs.

It's been nearly twenty years since I worked there but I do not recall any of the -200's having a forward airstair either.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 57):
Just like the pictured LH 731, All of Alaska Airlines 737-200QCs had the same kind of L2 airstairs where the door folded down and the stairs folded out from the door. Of course this was very handy for all the remote airports they served with the freighters and since the front of the plane had cargo the front door was not able to be used for passengers..usually, unless it was configured in the full pax config. Incidently, the L1 door also had integral airstairs!

Almost correct on the L2 door.

N741AS (or was it N740AS?) lacked airstairs so stair trucks had to be used and the aircraft only sent to stations that had a stair truck. So it ended up on the Dutch Harbor run a lot if I remember correctly.

All the other -200QC's had airstairs aft.

Incendently the ANC station stairtruck was donated to the Alaska Aviation History Museum at Lake Hood and is used to access the cabin of the 737 that AS donated to them a few years ago.
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yeelep
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Thu May 16, 2013 3:48 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 79):
N741AS (or was it N740AS?) lacked airstairs so stair trucks had to be used and the aircraft only sent to stations that had a stair truck. So it ended up on the Dutch Harbor run a lot if I remember correctly.

Yep, N741AS.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Thu May 16, 2013 5:34 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 79):
Quoting yeelep (Reply 70):I'm pretty sure none of the AS -200's had L1 airstairs.

It's been nearly twenty years since I worked there but I do not recall any of the -200's having a forward airstair either

All -200's had airstairs on delivery, it wasn't until somewhere in the New Gen (-300/400/500) run that they started disappearing. When I was flying with Mark Air in Alaska in mid '84 everybody (Wein/Mark AIr/Alaska) still had/needed them front, back, or both -- but that was...wow!..almost 30 years ago.
 
SXDFC
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Thu May 16, 2013 6:48 pm

Quoting Asteriskceo (Reply 52):
I saw a WN 737 with the air stairs compartment located below the boarding door. I believe it was an airTran converted ship, and they most likely stripped out the stairs.

A hand full of -300s have the door sealed shut, as well as some of the 2nd hand -700s and some of the ex FL frames. Off the top of my head here are the planes that I am 85% sure have the sealed in air-stairs.

-300s

N308SA
N317WN
N657SW
N665WN

-700s

N550WN
N551WN
N270WN
N7714B ( ex airTran N126AT )

There might possibly be some more frames with the sealed in door in their fleet.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Tue May 28, 2013 11:55 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 77):
I doubt they've changed since the first 737-100 in 1967. They look virtually identical in photos.

Air stair on the B732s were loaded with sequencing switches & sometimes snag prone.Wonder if Improvements were made on the later versions.
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Jetlagged
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Wed May 29, 2013 7:34 pm

One type not mentioned so far that had front and rear airstairs were Vickers Vanguards.


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Geezer
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RE: Self Contained Air Stairs

Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:36 pm

In the late 1950's or early 1960, and a year or so before the B 707 became the first commercial jet airliner in the U.S., old Piedmont Airlines operated twin engined Martin 404's ; the 404's has a self contained airstair which extended out of the underneath of the tail towards the rear, much like the rear facing airstair on the much later B 727.

I used to be at CVG almost every evening delivering 100/130 oct av gas to Piedmont, and after delivering my last load, I frequently rode out to the far end of the airport with the Piedmont mechanics who had to perform engine run-ups on the last plane of the day which terminated at CVG. If my memory serves me correctly, I'm pretty sure this was before they had any "jet-ways" at CVG. In those days, the planes parked quite a distance from the terminal, and all the airlines used either an old fashioned stair-truck, or else a self-propelled boarding-stairs. Come to think of it, everything was quite different back then; no TSA, no "security" of any kind, people regularly helped their friends onto planes and sometimes "hung out" with them in the cabin before the "stewardesses" made all of the "non-passengers" deplane; as a further example of how loose things were at airports back then..........in addition to hauling av-gas to Piedmot, AA, TWA, and Delta, I would occasionally take a truck load of regular gas to Hertz or Avis. Every time I unloaded at Avis, they had an old three-wheeled Harley that their guys used for shuttling cars to their downtown Cincinnati location. As no one ever used the old three wheeler on the evening shift, I always hopped on it and drove all over the airport, including out on the tarmac where all the ground service guys I knew were fueling planes up. ( I can't even imagine what they would do to you if you tried that today ! )
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