azfan777
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:01 pm

123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:06 pm

I recently flew to Europe and was wondering how much 123.450 is used for pilot to pilot communications or info regarding weather and any other information exchanges?
 
26point2
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:05 pm

It is supposed to be always monitored and is used from time to time but not much in my experience. 121.5 seems to get more traffic even though it's reserved for emergency use. 123.45 is the universal air-to-air Frequency now...Pacific Oceanic ops too for example. Occasionally there will be some company chatter on 123.45 between crews or talk of a bumpy ride ahead but the frequency is mostly dead.

I recall one lonely guy ferrying a Cessna 180 from KOAK-PHNL...about 2200nm...at 8000'. He was at about hour 10 of 18 if I recall and was happily chatting away on 123.45 to any airline traffic who would listen....I think he was just lonely. I would be.

Of course in Oceanic airspace everyone "talks" to ATC (via radio operators) on the HF radio...not VHF.
 
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tb727
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:55 pm

We use it over the continental US too if we hear a buddy. Just used it the other day to give some of our guys a heads up on their freight situation as they were heading to the pickup we had just left. We were giving info on weights and takeoff performance since we were both at near max for the airplane. Sometimes we use company freq but it's used by other companies so we don't want to step on them, or if we are close enough to base and we don't want dispatch listening in we will use "fingers" 123.45.
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PGNCS
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:46 am

Quoting AZFAN777 (Thread starter):
I recently flew to Europe and was wondering how much 123.450 is used for pilot to pilot communications or info regarding weather and any other information exchanges?

All the time. It's sometimes hard not to hear a conversation (or multiple conversations) in busy areas.
 
26point2
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:11 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 3):

I doubt this. Where exactly?
 
wilco737
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:31 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 3):
All the time. It's sometimes hard not to hear a conversation (or multiple conversations) in busy areas.

I hardly ever listen to that frequency unless required, like over the North Atlantic. Within the normal VHF couverage airspace I listen to the ATC frequency which was assigned to us and on the 2nd set I listen to 121.500 (emergency frequency). The 747 has a 3rd radio which is tuned to DATA for ACARS. So either I don't listen to ATC (not an option) or I swtich away from 121.500 (nothing I like doing).

So I not listen to many conversations on 123.45. Usually only North Atlantic and then basically to listen to PIREPs about turbulence or any other significant things.

wilco737
  
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:25 pm

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 1):
23.45 is the universal air-to-air Frequency now

Within the United States, it most certainly is not. It is designated for flight testing operations, not air to air.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
PGNCS
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:05 pm

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 4):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 3):
I doubt this. Where exactly?

Really, you doubt this? There is ABUNDANT chatter on 123.45 all over the North Atlantic.

[Edited 2013-10-04 07:08:46]
 
mcdu
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:21 pm

PGNCS is correct. Lots of chatter on 123.45 over the Atlantic. Often it is about rides and weather, relaying position reports for pilots having trouble with HF. It is also a sports score update and airline current events. Fly the Atlantic on a day when some airline gets a new contract or a merger is announced and the conversations won't stop.

It is also used by a large airline based in ATL to practice giving position reports (that's a joke and if you fly the Atlantic I think you will understand what I mean).....
 
azfan777
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:59 pm

Is it mostly US airlines that use this frequency?
 
DashTrash
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:12 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 6):
Within the United States, it most certainly is not. It is designated for flight testing operations, not air to air.

Tune in to it sometime, especially at night and you'll hear plenty of chatter. I don't care what it's designated for, but it's absolutely used for air to air.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:47 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 10):

Tune in to it sometime, especially at night and you'll hear plenty of chatter. I don't care what it's designated for, but it's absolutely used for air to air.

Sure, it is. But doing so is a violation of FCC regs.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
atct
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:46 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 6):
Within the United States, it most certainly is not.

I've flown all over the US and never once heard anyone use it for "flight test." What it's supposed to be used for doesn't matter, it IS used for air to air. I've used it many times myself.
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DashTrash
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:12 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 11):
Sure, it is. But doing so is a violation of FCC regs.

I would love to see a reference.
 
Chese
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:17 pm

RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:32 pm

I got curious and did a little Googling on this and Diamond Flyer is correct when talking within the United States. (Credit to user Unbeliever on the liveatc.net forum)

47 CFR 87.303 87.303 Frequencies.
"(a) These frequencies are available for assignment to flight test land and aircraft stations: 3281.0 123.175 123.225 123.400 123.200 123.375 123.450"
CFR-2009-title47-vol5/CFR-2009-title47-vol5-sec87-303/content-detail.html" target="_blank">http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/granule/CFR...vol5-sec87-303/content-detail.html

47 CFR 87.187
"(j) The frequency 122.750 MHz is authoried (sp) for use by private fixed wing aircraft for air-air communications.
The frequency 123.025 MHz is authorized for use by helicopters for air-air Communications. "

123.45 Mhz is for oceanic use per ICAO annex 10 "5.2.1.7.3.2.6 Interpilot air-to-air communication shall be established on the air-to-air channel 123.45 MHz by either a directed call to a specific aircraft station or a general call, taking into account conditions pertaining to use of this channel."

Very interesting inded!
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JohnM
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:39 pm

For military we used 242.4 UHF for air to air also. We only had 1 VHF, 1 UHF, 1 FM. So we actually needed our VHF for ATC from time to time.... We're talking rotary wing here. Used the FM sometimes also.
 
JohnM
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:43 pm

Quoting JohnM (Reply 15):
For military we used 242.4 UHF for air to air also. We only had 1 VHF, 1 UHF, 1 FM. So we actually needed our VHF for ATC from time to time.... We're talking rotary wing here. Used the FM sometimes also.

Obviously not North Atlantic ops however.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:33 pm

Quoting atct (Reply 12):
I've flown all over the US and never once heard anyone use it for "flight test." What it's supposed to be used for doesn't matter, it IS used for air to air. I've used it many times myself.

Speeding isn't legal either, yet people do it. It is not a designated A2A frequency, but people do it anyway. Will they get in trouble, most likely, no. But its still not legal.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
LHRjc
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:59 am

Our Ops manual states that when we're Oceanic:-

Having established two-way communication on HF and having successfully carried out a SELCAL check, set VHF #1 to 121.5 MHz and VHF #2 to 123.45 MHz. Continue to monitor both frequencies. 30 minutes after leaving radar control set A2000 on the transponder.

We also have a VHF3 which is primarily for ACARS.
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EGGD
Posts: 11884
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RE: 123.450 Use Over North Atlantic

Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:44 pm

Quoting LHRjc (Reply 18):
Our Ops manual states that when we're Oceanic:-

Having established two-way communication on HF and having successfully carried out a SELCAL check, set VHF #1 to 121.5 MHz and VHF #2 to 123.45 MHz. Continue to monitor both frequencies. 30 minutes after leaving radar control set A2000 on the transponder.

Ours is the same. I find 123.45 very useful when there are plenty of 'bubbles' on the significant weather chart over our route to establish whether the ride is acceptable at our level or whether any deviations will need to be made (and approximately how far, will it be within 10nm of routing etc). Forewarned is forearmed..

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