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TriL1011Star
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Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:33 am

I have read many a time that the Eastern Airlines planes, specifially the L-1011's that were bought by delta, had roaches and it took them months and sometimes years to get rid of them. Just exactly........why?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:40 am

Not to make it sound too simplistic, but roaches get into things. They lay their eggs in things like bags, which then go on planes, and voilà, more roaches. Same way rats get onto ships. Roaches are also among the most resilient organisms around. Hard to get rid of completely.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
rfields5421
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:52 am

Not trying to cast aspersions - but in some countries - especially in the tropics - it is impossible to avoid roaches. Every item put on the plane, from the boxes holding the food to carryon packages to cargo - all can carry roaches/ eggs.

Getting rid of them is a major long term effort - that is not always successful.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:34 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 2):

Not trying to cast aspersions - but in some countries - especially in the tropics - it is impossible to avoid roaches. Every item put on the plane, from the boxes holding the food to carryon packages to cargo - all can carry roaches/ eggs.

Absolutely true about the tropics! Most people in Sweden feel that roaches mean you don't keep your place clean enough. They should try living in the tropics for a few months. The occasional roach is a fact of life and I'm sure there are plenty lurking where I can't see them. 

[Edited 2014-01-12 19:34:38]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
EMBQA
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:44 am

We still see roaches on planes today. We had one come in for maintenance that was so bad it had to be sealed up and bug bombed
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:27 am

It's time for one of SlamClick's greatest hits.

Only problem I ever had with insects: Took off out of a jungle clearing "down south" and just about the time I cleared the treetops, a wasp the size of a mouse crawled up on the glareshield right in front of my face. Did not want to land again and really did not want to get stung. For all I know a tropical wasp that size could knock you unconscious.

I kept climbing. I had the back windows out of the airplane and I climbed up to where it started getting cold. Pretty soon the wasp stopped crawling around and kind of hunkered in the sunshine. I got the machete out from under my seat (What? You don't fly with a machete under the seat?) and whacked him good with the flat of the blade. Then scooped him up carefully and put him out the window. Sure didn't want to piss him off!
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Natflyer
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:07 am

Ever seen the roaches in the jetways at MIA or MCO? They are so big you have to step aside when they make onto your airplane...
 
TriL1011Star
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:38 am

Wow! How do they get into the jetways?

I always wondered this, because the airports are nothing but cement for acres around. So how do they get there?
 
charlienorth
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:16 am

Quoting triL1011star (Reply 7):
Wow! How do they get into the jetways?

I always wondered this, because the airports are nothing but cement for acres around. So how do they get there?

One big source is catering stuff and pax carry on bags..you place your pag on the floor at the hotel and later open it on the airplane when you go for your paperback.
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rfields5421
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:24 am

Quoting triL1011star (Reply 7):
So how do they get there?

Cardboard.

Every package with cardboard or any type of paper is a great home for cockroach eggs and provides plenty of nutrition for the young to grow after hatching.

Long distance sailboat cruisers have been known to strip away all paper/cardboard packaging at the dock, repackage everything into air tight plastic containers. Even to the point of removing all labels from canned goods and writing with magic marker on the cans what is inside.

Cockroaches are near indestructible.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:42 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 9):
Cockroaches are near indestructible.

If you cut the head of a cockroach, it dies not of shock, but of starvation.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
dl757md
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:48 am

When Eastern shutdown the crews landed, got the pax off the planes and left them. The food that was on the planes was left on them for months until Delta took them into overhaul. How could you not have roaches with that scenario? Even if the planes were roach free when they were abandoned, the roaches would have found their way in through the outflow valves and other openings. That being said roaches find their way onto in-service airplanes all the time. It is a constant battle in warm climates.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:32 am

Quoting dl757md (Reply 11):

When Eastern shutdown the crews landed, got the pax off the planes and left them. The food that was on the planes was left on them for months until Delta took them into overhaul

Wasn't pest control an option before putting them back into service.
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dl757md
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:36 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 12):
Wasn't pest control an option before putting them back into service

The planes went directly into overhaul when Delta took posession of them. This was for many reasons, not the least of which was the the pest problem and the putrid smell of the airplanes after having been locked up with rotting food, roach infestation and unserviced lavs for months in the spring and summer weather of Atlanta and Miami.
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:14 am

Quoting dl757md (Reply 13):
The planes went directly into overhaul when Delta took posession of them.

I'll never forget the sight of 1000's of roaches (of all sizes) stuck to the carpet tape on the floor after the carpets and seats were removed.

Quoting dl757md (Reply 13):
the putrid smell of the airplanes after having been locked up with rotting food, roach infestation and unserviced lavs for months in the spring and summer weather of Atlanta and Miami.


IIRC, the L1011's were not used much after the strike and some planes sat for years. One plane had been returned from lease to Worldways Canada.


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[Edited 2014-01-24 20:26:50]
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:23 pm

Quoting dl757md (Reply 13):
been locked up with rotting food

Why not follow a preservation schedule, were they so sure it would never be used....leaving food to rot seems more like laziness.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:51 pm

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 15):
Quoting dl757md (Reply 13):
been locked up with rotting food

Why not follow a preservation schedule, were they so sure it would never be used....leaving food to rot seems more like laziness.

Or it was no clear who would pay for the storage programme and related maintenance. I have seen it before when airlines went bankrupt. It usually takes a few months for the lawyers to sort out the responsibilities and finances. The old employees got laid off (or went for other jobs when they didn´t get paid anymore), the banks, who´s managers don´t have a clue about aircraft and aviation, need to be convinced that without maintenance the planes will soon just be scrap metal instead of an asset, and the contracted maintenance companies, which did the maintenance before, will not work until outstanding debts are cleared, and then only if they receive cash up front. Usually the planes end up being pushed on some remote stands at some airport and getting them airrworthy again will be more expensive than just keeping them n a minimum storage programme.

Jan
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:19 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 16):

Jan....the situation above seems more of unprofessionalism.....if the aircraft is being moved to storage, the food should have been cleared and aircraft sealed,irrespective of the future unknown plans and responsibilities....in my opinion...
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:38 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 4):
We still see roaches on planes today. We had one come in for maintenance that was so bad it had to be sealed up and bug bombed

That's about all you can do.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 2):
especially in the tropics - it is impossible to avoid roaches. Every item put on the plane, from the boxes holding the food to carryon packages to cargo - all can carry roaches/ eggs.

  

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 6):
Ever seen the roaches in the jetways at MIA or MCO? They are so big you have to step aside when they make onto your airplane...

Palmetto bugs. Looks like a roach on steroids. They also fly. Nasty critters. Florida is ground zero for them. Thanks to global warming they now live around Atlanta. They like to travel inside sewer pipes and enter your house through the overflow openings in plumbing fixtures. Lovely. If you live in an apartment building or Condos it makes it easy for them to get around.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 9):
Cardboard.
Every package with cardboard or any type of paper is a great home for cockroach eggs and provides plenty of nutrition for the young to grow after hatching.

Yes, they can exist for hundreds of years just on the glue in cardboard.

Peeling back the foil on a JM First-Class breakfast back in the 1990's revealed a cockroach enjoying the food. He got there first so I just gave the whole thing back to a not so surprised f/a.  
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:33 pm

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 17):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 16):

Jan....the situation above seems more of unprofessionalism.....if the aircraft is being moved to storage, the food should have been cleared and aircraft sealed,irrespective of the future unknown plans and responsibilities....in my opinion...

Until the financial situation was solved, there probably was no storage programme. The planes got simply towed to some remote stand and left sitting. I have witnessed it with another (cargo) airline, which went bankrupt. The airline had no maintenance of their own, could not pay their own staff and had huge debts with the airport and their maintenance contractors. The planes simply got pushed out of the way. The only thing the maintenace company at the other airport did was to stick on pitot covers and to cover up the static ports. We got told not to touch the planes of this airline, which were parked at our airport, until there was a solution concerning the outstanding debts. It took 6 months until we received the go-ahead and then we had to do a lot of work just to get the planes into a ferrying condition to bring them to our airport (Boeing made up a work package for us). Once here, the leased engines got removed and sent back to the leasing companies and a storage programme (e.g. engine preservation) was carried out. Now two of the planes went back to one leasing company, while the other two are in our care in longtime storage. Now, of course, bringing the planes back into flying conditon, will be a lot more expensive (one needs a larger C-Check and the other one a D-Check, plus three engines will have to be installed in place of the ones sent back to the leasing companies).
But until the airports and the maintenace companies saw some money, we were under strict orders not to touch anything.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:04 pm

I recall hearing a story on A.net about how when EA shut down, all their planes, catered or not, sat on the tarmac at ATL. And when they opened them, weeks or months later, that there were more than just roaches onboard...
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:20 am

Possible. In the case of the bankruptcy I mentioned above also our cleaners (same company as us) were not allowed to get on the planes until the financial side was sorted. Similarly the catering company, which normally would have removed the leftover foods in the trolleys, refused to work on these planes.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Did All The EAL TriStars Have Roaches?

Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:03 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 20):
hat there were more than just roaches onboard...

more like what else.....  
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 21):

Possible. In the case of the bankruptcy I mentioned above also our cleaners (same company as us) were not allowed to get on the planes until the financial side was sorted. Similarly the catering company, which normally would have removed the leftover foods in the trolleys, refused to work on these planes.

If a complex job of shifting an aircraft can be done, then a more simpler job of cleaning the trash should have been accomplished......but as you said its a decision to be taken by the management at the time.
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