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rw774477
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Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:36 pm

Considering these a/c are being used only by the manufacturer are they designated experimental or do they go through the full rigors of the certification process required for commercial use ?
 
rwessel
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:23 pm

Neither are experimental. The 747LCFs have considerable use restrictions in their certifications (only Boeing airplane parts, basically), because of the lack of a cargo fire suppression system. The Belugas do get used for non-Airbus stuff.
 
David_itl
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:26 pm

Beluga charter ops

"A wide range of commercial charter missions have been performed by Airbus Transport International, from airlifting a 17.6-metre-long x 6.5-metre-diameter chemical tank weighing 39 metric tonnes to transporting a large French masterpiece painting. "

I imagine they only operate when not required for their primary mission.
 
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cougar15
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:10 pm

Quoting rw774477 (Thread starter):
Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

slightly off Topic, but are we going to see an A346 ´Moby Dick'?? Any News on the proposals??
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
StTim
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:26 pm

It is going to be an A330 based Beluga2
 
Mortyman
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:43 pm

Quoting StTim (Reply 4):
It is going to be an A330 based Beluga2

and here i was hoping for a double sized A380  
 
pdxswa
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:48 am

The Boeing 747 LCF's are only certified to carry 787 parts and nothing else.
 
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autothrust
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:11 am

Quoting rwessel (Reply 1):
The Belugas do get used for non-Airbus stuff.

Indeed, here some examples of freight carried by the beluga:

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/514a001b69bedd8562000007-1024-669/airbus_beluga_cbr_2003_pryde.jpg


http://schildknecht.info/Bilder122005/Hydor_Beluga_sm.jpg
Flown on: DC-9, MD-80, Fokker 100, Bae 146 Avro, Boeing 737-300, 737-400, 747-200, 747-300,747-400, 787-9, Airbus A310, A319, A320, A321, A330-200,A330-300, A340-313, A380, Bombardier CSeries 100/300, CRJ700ER/CRJ900, Embraer 190.
 
SchorschNG
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:21 am

The Belugas are to my knowledge not fully certified.
They require some sort of special allowance to land somewhere.
The possible successor is based on the A330-200, apparently due to the tough take-off requirements at Broughton.
From a structural standpoint, passengers are the worst possible payload. [Michael Chun-Yung Niu]
 
kengo
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:00 am

I know looks does not matter when carry cargos or when designed for specific roles but the Belugas must be ugliest thing flying now, more so than the Super Guppy or the Dreamlifter. I hope the version 2 Beluga, based on the A332, looks better.
 
PhilBy
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:17 am

Quoting kengo (Reply 9):
the Belugas must be ugliest thing flying now, more so than the Super Guppy or the Dreamlifter.

I hope that there is a typo here somewhere. The dreamlifter looks much more 'industrial revolution' and less graceful than the beluga. It reminds me of a python that has swallowed a pig.

I believe that the beluga is 'experimental' and needs new certif paperwork for each new cargo configuration.
 
nomadd22
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:10 pm

Quoting PhilBy (Reply 10):
I hope that there is a typo here somewhere. The dreamlifter looks much more 'industrial revolution' and less graceful than the beluga. It reminds me of a python that has swallowed a pig.

I don't think anybody has ever used the words "graceful" and "Beluga" in the same sentence before. Even the Beluga's mother wouldn't call that thing more graceful than anything.
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Luxair
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:26 pm

Did i read "Graceful"? Huh...ehmm not really! Both planes look "functional" & nothing else.

Btw, is the Beluga based on the A300 or A320? They look underpowered judging by the pictures above but that could be an optical illusion!
 
starbucks
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:32 pm

Quoting SchorschNG (Reply 8):
The possible successor is based on the A330-200, apparently due to the tough take-off requirements at Broughton.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the current runway at Broughton was A330-200 limiting, but I believe there is some runway extension underway at Broughton at the moment which might provide enough room for a A330-300 based aircraft??

(Or maybe even A340-500! #daydreaming )
 
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cougar15
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:00 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 5):
Quoting StTim (Reply 4):It is going to be an A330 based Beluga2

and here i was hoping for a double sized A380

Are we sure about this? a recent thread here that I cant find again now clearly showed conceptional drawings based upon a 346, so 4 engined (anyone rember the thread in question)??
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
SA7700
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:07 pm

Quoting Luxair (Reply 12):
Btw, is the Beluga based on the A300 or A320? They look underpowered judging by the pictures above but that could be an optical illusion!

It is a version of the standard A300-600 wide-body.

Regards,

SA7700
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zeke
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:17 pm

Quoting SchorschNG (Reply 8):

The Belugas are to my knowledge not fully certified.
They require some sort of special allowance to land somewhere.

They are certified, restricted. Not sure why they would need special permission to land, it is not that heavy normally. they parts a bulky, low density.

http://www.easa.europa.eu/certificat...A300--600ST_Beluga-03-05052010.pdf

Quoting starbucks (Reply 13):
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the current runway at Broughton was A330-200 limiting, but I believe there is some runway extension underway at Broughton at the moment which might provide enough room for a A330-300 based aircraft??

The way to fix that is to derate the takeoff.

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 14):
Are we sure about this? a recent thread here that I cant find again now clearly showed conceptional drawings based upon a 346, so 4 engined (anyone rember the thread in question)??

That concept is somewhat old, the newer concept is A330 based, however I think that also assumed manufacturing in the US would not require parts to be flown.

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 15):
It is a version of the standard A300-600 wide-body.

Correct, A300 MSN 655, 751, 765, 776, and 796.
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rfields5421
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:46 pm

Quoting Luxair (Reply 12):
They look underpowered judging by the pictures above but that could be an optical illusion!

Partially correct, partially optical illusion.

The Beluga and Dreamlifter carry large bulky cargo. They do not carry heavy cargo.

The Dreamlifter is powered by the same P&W engines as the B747-400.
The Beluga is powered by the GE CF6-80C2A8 which is very slightly different than the GE engines on the A300B4 & F4 series aircraft.


The Dreamlifter empty weight is only about 4,000 lbs more than the B747-400 - yet it's MTOW is 70,000 lbs lighter.

The Beluga is quite a bit lighter empty than the A300-600 series freighter - but it's MTOW is still near 70,000 lbs lighter than the commercial version.

The extra body shape takes a huge toll on fuel efficiency. The Dreamlifter range is barely over half the range of the B747-400. The Beluga range is not listed but is definitely much less than the regular aircraft.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
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autothrust
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:52 pm

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 15):
It is a version of the standard A300-600 wide-body.

The heritage of a A300 can be seen clearly from this scheme.



I imagine the A330 based Beluga would be made by the same companies.

IMO i think the Beluga is indeed graceful and alone because it is so unique an eyecatcher.( the 744LCF too)
Flown on: DC-9, MD-80, Fokker 100, Bae 146 Avro, Boeing 737-300, 737-400, 747-200, 747-300,747-400, 787-9, Airbus A310, A319, A320, A321, A330-200,A330-300, A340-313, A380, Bombardier CSeries 100/300, CRJ700ER/CRJ900, Embraer 190.
 
queb
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:40 pm

You can download the A330-200BXL Beluga study here:

https://mega.co.nz/#!voAHmLhS!RniXwTrZbMLSj6DnvdCzWyOxYssOdRbN_Btwo-jQPz4
 
Luxair
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:53 pm

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 15):
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 17):
Quoting autothrust (Reply 18):

Thanks to all of you   Very interesting! I didn't knew all that stuff about the Beluga! That's exactly the reason I'm here on A-net! Learning everyday new things about aviation.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 14):
Are we sure about this? a recent thread here that I cant find again now clearly showed conceptional drawings based upon a 346, so 4 engined (anyone rember the thread in question)??

The A340-300ST and A340-600ST Super Transporter concepts date back to the mid-2000s and were commissioned by SATIC, the Aerospatiale/DASA joint venture responsible for the design and construction of the A300-600ST.

Airbus A340-600ST Super Transporter Concept


In August 2011, Airbus inadvertently posted pictures of a Super Transporter based on the A330-300 on their website. They formally denied such a program was in development, however it did seem the most likely option to replace the A300-600ST fleet and Airbus created a PowerPoint for a New Beluga based on the A330-300ST in 2012.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...08/a_new_generation_of_airbus_a33/

[Edited 2014-01-31 13:56:46]

[Edited 2014-01-31 14:06:31]
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:27 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):
PowerPoint for a New Beluga based on the A330-300ST in 2012.

The PowerPoint presentation was about A330-200/300 and A340-500/600 based Beluga's. The outcome was only the A330-200XL would fit all requirements.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 17):
The Beluga range is not listed but is definitely much less than the regular aircraft.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_Beluga#Specifications

[Edited 2014-02-01 06:31:45]
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apfpilot
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:30 pm

I saw the dream lifter at Oshkosh a few years ago. Up close it is UGLY, more rivets than a WWII battleship. I don't even want to think about the parasitic drag. This image gives a good idea of what I am talking about: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Boein...47-409(LCF)-Dreamlifter/1471515/M/
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
apfpilot
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:34 pm

The TCDS for the 747 can be found here: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...c3e00700946/$FILE/A20WE_Rev_53.pdf details on the 747LCF are on page 27.
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
arffdude
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:01 pm

Quoting pdxswa (Reply 6):
The Boeing 747 LCF's are only certified to carry 787 parts and nothing else.

According the TCDS in the reply above this one, "Only cargo that supports Boeing corporate lines of business is
allowed for carriage," so couldn't it be used to transport items for other Boeing projects?

Also, I see the Dreamlifter here at JFK all the time, often for a couple of days at a time, so I assume it's not simply a refueling stop. Any reason for the frequent visits? Maybe picking up cargo that is coming into the area via ship?
 
chuchoteur
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:56 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 16):

They are certified, restricted. Not sure why they would need special permission to land, it is not that heavy normally. they parts a bulky, low density.

http://www.easa.europa.eu/certificat...0.pdf

Indeed the A300-600ST fleet is certificated. And they don't need special permission to land.
The TC is actually handled by Airbus Transport International, which gives flexibility for modifications that may be required for specific operations.

The "new" Beluga will actually be a closer to an A330-250.
This is to correct a CG issue, the A300-600ST often has a forward CG condition that requires 1 or 2x 800kg weights to be placed in the aft cargo hold in the rear pallet position.
The draft proposal is the rear section of a -300 and the front section of a -200.
 
rwessel
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RE: Dreamlifter / Beluga Certification

Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:05 am

Quoting arffdude (Reply 25):
Also, I see the Dreamlifter here at JFK all the time, often for a couple of days at a time, so I assume it's not simply a refueling stop. Any reason for the frequent visits? Maybe picking up cargo that is coming into the area via ship?

The LCFs are operated by Atlas. Atlas is based at JFK. It's also their main pilot base, IIRC.

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