SAAFNAV
Topic Author
Posts: 576
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:41 pm

Flight Dispatcher License

Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:47 pm

So I'm interested in getting a Dispatcher License.

In South Africa there is no license, it falls under the approved Part 121 operator's training etc.

How can I do it in the US?

Since I'm a C-130 nav, with the ground school subjects at a level between CPL and ATP with close to a 1 000 hours, flight dispatch isn't really different from what I do except with luxuries such as a toilet, fixed floor and filter coffee. (We only have a urinal and instant coffee on-board   )

Do I need to attend a course, or can I study by myself and write the exams? Will my experience count?

Also, I was reading through some parts of 14 CFR Part 65 and the navigator part is interesting - they still have the requirement for celestial, LORAN and Decca navigation. Can you still get a Nav license, or am I reading an old part of the law?

Anybody with some info or places where I can get more insight?

Thanks,

Erich

[Edited 2014-08-12 05:54:10]
L-382 Loadmaster; ex C-130B Navigator
 
LONGisland89
Posts: 560
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:34 am

RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:35 pm

I'm sure there are dispatchers here who can elaborate better than I can. Basically, you have to get signed off to take the written and oral exams. That means taking some kind of course. I completed the dispatch program through Embry-Riddle, got signed off by the course instructor, but never took the written or oral (long story). With your experience, you won't have a problem. Here's all the part 65 courses:
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs200/branches/afs220/courses/media/part65.pdf

Side note: I know a few people that went to Flamingo in Cincinnati and they highly recommend it.
 
SAAFNAV
Topic Author
Posts: 576
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RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:57 pm

Thank you, I will contact them for further advice.

So with Embry-Riddle, can I take it as a course that can be done in a short while, or must you enroll as a full-time student?

Regards,
Erich
L-382 Loadmaster; ex C-130B Navigator
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:09 am

RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:47 pm

You should google FAA Part 65 dispatch schools. There are dozens of six-eight week dispatch courses. Most only give credit for having an actual ATP license. You will likely need to attend the course in its entirety. I would choose a school like Sheffield, Jeppesen, IFOD, or Flamingo Air over Embry Riddle. Those places specialize in dispatch training and are going to be a lot cheaper.

As far as working as a dispatcher, check the requirements of airlines in countries where you have the right to work. Most US airlines rarely if ever sponsor foreign licensed dispatchers to work in the states. When you pay the money to get the license, you will want to be sure you have a decent chance of using the license. The license is going to be around a $10,000-12,000 USD investment once you add everything up. The Flight Operations department in an airline often has no shortage of internal applicants trying to make it into one of the work groups. Flight Planning, flight dispatch, flight operations officers tend to be extremely competitive for obtaining employment at the top tier companies.
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2951
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:51 pm

Dispatch at E-R is just an add on to the flight degrees. It is not a stand alone program. You have to attend all the classes in the dispatch program (most are in the commercial pilot programs) with 100% attendance plus a passing grade. The 100 % attendance is the tough part. All missed course time has to be made up. Trying to find time to do some special project for no grade when you are behind in other coursework is tough.
 
SAAFNAV
Topic Author
Posts: 576
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RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:57 am

Quoting MSJYOP28Apilot (Reply 3):
You should google FAA Part 65 dispatch schools. There are dozens of six-eight week dispatch courses. Most only give credit for having an actual ATP license. You will likely need to attend the course in its entirety. I would choose a school like Sheffield, Jeppesen, IFOD, or Flamingo Air over Embry Riddle. Those places specialize in dispatch training and are going to be a lot cheaper.

Thanks. I ruled out E-R, but there is one other flight school in AZ, where I have family. That doesn't rule out another place really.

According to Part 65.57 they make provisions for navigators, but I would like to find out more about getting that exemption.
I did contact the one school in AZ to find out specifically for my case.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/65.57

I meet all the requirements, including of 200 hours under instruction, so I need to study FAA law, which is quite different to ours.

I'm working under the assumption of a green card here, so once you have that, would my navigator background give me an edge above other applicants?

Thanks,
Erich
L-382 Loadmaster; ex C-130B Navigator
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1808
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:42 am

Quoting SAAFNAV (Thread starter):
Can you still get a Nav license, or am I reading an old part of the law?

The flight navigator section of Part 63 is still current, but there is no flight navigator written test available to take, and I doubt there are any FAA approved flight navigator courses that still exist, and none of the airlines who would have their own FAA approved courses would have a need for a flight navigator.

So yes while in theory you can apply for and receive a flight navigator certificate - as the mechanism for it still exists, the infrastructure to acquire the prerequisite training isn't there.

Back to the dispatcher certificate:


Even though you might have the 200 hours of instruction, the dispatch school you are attending will need some sort of documentation, and in the end the school may just have you complete their approved course of instruction just to have a record of the 200 hrs of instruction.

When it comes to applying for an airline job, unless you meet all the check blocks the airline is looking for, you won't get considered. Once you meet the minimum requirements, or you meet face-to-face with a recruiter, that's when you mention other factors as to why they should consider you over the other applicants. But just in itself, having a flight navigator background won't give you an edge over anyone else in getting the door cracked open.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
SAAFNAV
Topic Author
Posts: 576
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RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:19 am

Quoting Woodreau (Reply 6):

The flight navigator section of Part 63 is still current, but there is no flight navigator written test available to take, and I doubt there are any FAA approved flight navigator courses that still exist, and none of the airlines who would have their own FAA approved courses would have a need for a flight navigator.

So yes while in theory you can apply for and receive a flight navigator certificate - as the mechanism for it still exists, the infrastructure to acquire the prerequisite training isn't there.

Thanks for the info Steve.

Interesting. Celestial and hyperbolic navigation was removed from the syllabi before my time, and although I find it immensely interesting, I'm very glad I didn't have to do it on course.
We still have sextants on our aircraft, but no-one is current in it, nor do they service the sextants or issue almanacs. The only reason they still have the port and sextant is to check for wing and empennage damage.

Thanks for the inputs, hopefully I can visit a school in the US and make further decisions from there.

I'm trying to remuster for pilot training, alternatively I will do Nav Instructor course. That at least helps to get a job for ground instruction.

My dream isn't really to be dispatcher, but I always like having options.

Erich
L-382 Loadmaster; ex C-130B Navigator
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2951
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:43 am

Quoting SAAFNAV (Reply 7):
My dream isn't really to be dispatcher, but I always like having options

That is the reality for most dispatchers. Many are pilots that lost their medical.
 
dw747400
Posts: 1100
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 8:24 am

RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:17 pm

When I did mine, I went through Airline Ground Schools which is now a part of Flamingo (I believe). It was a good course that provided a good basic overview and checked the boxes, but it certainly didn't cover everything that you need to know. Of course, many employers would fill in the rest.

I've probably heard the best opinions about Sheffield. Graduates who I've spoken to describe it as more through and more challenging than other courses. Every Sheffield grad I've worked with knew their stuff; I can't say the same about other schools. I don't know many dispatch management types, but the ones I have met said that they prefer someone with previous dispatch experience, but if they are getting a "0 time" employee they look for Sheffield.

Again, I did not go to Sheffield and my info is 5 years old... but based on that I'd suggest taking a look.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
apodino
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:48 pm

Quoting dw747400 (Reply 9):
I've probably heard the best opinions about Sheffield. Graduates who I've spoken to describe it as more through and more challenging than other courses. Every Sheffield grad I've worked with knew their stuff; I can't say the same about other schools. I don't know many dispatch management types, but the ones I have met said that they prefer someone with previous dispatch experience, but if they are getting a "0 time" employee they look for Sheffield.

I went to Sheffield and graduated top of my class. It is challenging but not impossible, as long as you have a positive attitude and are willing to put in the work. I have met many people in the industry who came out of Sheffield, and they all know their stuff. I believe that since you are from South Africa, Sheffield can even help you with the visa process since I believe attending Sheffield as a foreigner would require a study visa, but I am not sure on that.
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:58 pm

Or you can just come to Canada and write the exams for free, and study on your own. Not helpful if you want to work in the US, but most airlines outside of North America consider our certificates as equivalent to the FAA ones.
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SAAFNAV
Topic Author
Posts: 576
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RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:41 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 10):

I went to Sheffield and graduated top of my class. It is challenging but not impossible, as long as you have a positive attitude and are willing to put in the work. I have met many people in the industry who came out of Sheffield, and they all know their stuff. I believe that since you are from South Africa, Sheffield can even help you with the visa process since I believe attending Sheffield as a foreigner would require a study visa, but I am not sure on that.

Thanks, they do look good.

Seems they have 2 week course for previous experience with a lot of self-study before, but for a total of about $ 4 500. In my currency, it is quite steep.
But for better opportunities I will still consider it in the future.

Thanks for the help.

Erich

[Edited 2014-08-15 00:34:41]
L-382 Loadmaster; ex C-130B Navigator
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5019
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:54 am

The two primary schools that people get licensed from at my airline are Sheffield and Jeppesen, with the company leaning towards Jeppesen. Both do a bang-up job. There's also a number of other schools and colleges as well, some of which don't even exist anymore, like mine which went belly-up with the economy.

Regardless, whatever the school teaches you as you work on your license, expect to learn it the company's way once you get a job.

[Edited 2014-08-15 02:55:50]
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
mountainwest90
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 5:30 am

RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:40 pm

How easy (or hard) is it to get a job after completing the training at one of these schools and getting your licence?
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:09 am

RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:19 am

Quoting MountainWest90 (Reply 14):
How easy (or hard) is it to get a job after completing the training at one of these schools and getting your licence?

It is relatively easy to get a job at a regional airline. Some people have success at getting into Part 135 or Part 121 Supplemental operators after getting a dispatch license. You need several years experience to get to a major unless you already work for that airline and can get hired as an internal candidate.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3980
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:48 am

the dispatcher's test in the USA is equivalent to to Air transport rating written. if you already Have one then you can take the dispatcher's exam if you Don't? then class time is in order. there's no OJT to it.
 
Goldenshield
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Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:10 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 16):
the dispatcher's test in the USA is equivalent to to Air transport rating written.

Equivalent in the topics covered, yes, and unfortunately, the sheer volume of what you need to understand causes a lot of people to wash out before they even get to the written test---especially if they've never work in aviation before. I'm sure you've seen or heard of similar cases when it comes to the A&P.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 16):
if you already Have one then you can take the dispatcher's exam if you Don't?

Separate ratings require separate tests; It's an FAA paperwork thing. However, if you have an ATP, or other appropriate experience, then you qualify for the "short" class.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 16):
then class time is in order.

3-4 weeks or more of cramming if you don't qualify for the "short" course.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 16):
there's no OJT to it.

When if comes to airman certification, there most certainly is, but it usually won't be much more than what you'd need to know and understand to pass the practical exam. Once you land a job, that airline's training regimen will take over and be much, much more specific and thorough.
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strfyr51
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RE: Flight Dispatcher License

Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:38 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 17):
When if comes to airman certification, there most certainly is, but it usually won't be much more than what you'd need to know and understand to pass the practical exam. Once you land a job, that airline's training regimen will take over and be much, much more specific and thorough.

This is true, United's dispatch training lasts about 4 months, the check ride is 2 days. And they're "Grilled and Roasted"!

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