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wing
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Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:58 am

Wing;The Most Brand New A-321 Pilot

It has been almost 10 years I posted the above.It was about my first impressions about A321(we recieved the A321 first and recivewed A320 and A319 later on)After almost 10 years and 8800 hours of flying the A320 family as a Captain,TRI and TRE now its time to post another one describing "the most brand new A330 Pilot"  

It's up to seniority to move to bigger airplane in my company(I think its almost the same in most others)You start with the mainline plane in our case its A320 or 737.Once you go up in the seniority list and when they need captains on the bigger type,you get upgraded.In my case I was very lucky to be in the correct place in the correct time.Turkish Airlines grows very fastly and 10 years from senior FO to widebody captain is a very fast track for pilots career.(comparing it to the older times of the company)

In the company we have two different aircraft A330 and B777 to be upgraded and pilots can not choose which one to go,depending the number of required captains,they count down the from the top of the seniority list and you move to that fleet.It doesnt matter if you are a boeing or airbus guy.

If you ask me ,I love evey type of airplane which helps me to earn the money to support my family,but I crossed my fingers to stay on Airbus type,not only because its simply better a aircraft but also it requires a quicker and easier transition with commonality of the systems and procedures.

For a A320 captain to change to A330, it requires a 5 day ground course and and total of 7 sim sessions(this includes 4 sessions of training and checking and extra low visibility,etops and ZFTT for THY requirements)

There are minor differences in the aircraft systems which adds more redundancy and safety in case of system failures.And handling the aircraft is very good.Although little bit different than flying the A320 family which is more and quicker responsive to the sidestick inputs but its still very athletic for an aircraft of that size.

The cockpit lay out is almost identical with a more roomy space,but I was kind of disappointed to see the most important part "the table" is modified to be EFB when opened,so the size is smaller and I kind of didnt like it.  

But I loved the power,ıt accelerates slower but when it does, it goes like a bull.ı saw 5400 fpm climb  Wow! at 38000 with the engines already derated to 2,which is maximum,and flying at 41000 something I didnt do since I first flew the B737800

Overall I am so enthusiastic about this airplane,I loved every second flying it.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:19 am

Quoting wing (Thread starter):
For a A320 captain to change to A330, it requires a 5 day ground course and and total of 7 sim sessions(this includes 4 sessions of training and checking and extra low visibility,etops and ZFTT for THY requirements)

Congratulations on your promotion and your insights. Just one question: Did I understand it correct that you became captain at once on your A330? So with other words, after the transition course, you are not FO, but captain on the A330 with no experience on this type so far?

Please do not take this question offensive, as none is intended from me! I know that a captain is chosen from his experience in crew management, oversight, flight hours on other types and so on. I just thought you have to be FO on a type first before becoming captain.

Michael
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:19 am

Congrats Wing!

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 1):
I just thought you have to be FO on a type first before becoming captain.

There is typically no such requirement. However I imagine that if you go from, say, 320 captain to 777 captain it is quite a learning curve. Then again, you'd have much of the same learning curve going from 320 F/O to 777 F/O.

There are airlines out there that take "direct entry" captains with no experience on type. I guess fundamentally command experience is command experience.

[Edited 2014-08-27 04:20:22]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Pihero
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:00 pm

Welcome to the big league, Wing !
I agree with you, the 330 is one hell of an aircraft and in my opinion, easier to handle than the 320 family, as it has more inertia ( crosswind landings are a delight to fly on it ! ) and its performance is... more than satisfying.
The transition to long haul is, by no means, a doodle.
Now is the time for you to review all your performance manuals and start thinking like a long hauler skipper : plan ; plan ahead of your aircraft ; plan always... surprise is the last thing you'd want.

Next step the A380 ?
Looking forward to hear that from you  
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
I guess fundamentally command experience is command experience.

With a big difference : short haul is basically about a ballistic flight, while long distance flying requires an altogether different set of mind : It's about routing strategy and planning for the unexpected : weather, technical failures, ETOPS... etc... self pacing and crew management... among dozens of other subjects.
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Woodreau
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:55 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 1):
I just thought you have to be FO on a type first before becoming captain.

Normally to become captain, a pilot usually has to progress to approximately just below halfway up the pilot seniority list. Just below halfway to account for pilots who are senior enough to hold captain, but for their own reasons choose to remain a first officer. Reason vary from wanting to hold a good schedule as a senior FO vs being a reserve pilot as a junior captain, or unable to hold a medical certificate required to be pilot in command. Those are just a few reasons a pilot who can hold a captain position chooses to remain a first officer.

Once you make captain, you can usually switch types as your seniority allows, without going back down to first officer.

It depends on the pilot contract, but most pilot contracts do not allow captains to bid for or bid back down to first officers. And in that instance, the only way to become a first officer if you are a captain at an airline with that stipulation is to be involuntarily downgraded during fleet/base reduction/displacement.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
wing
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:07 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 1):
I just thought you have to be FO on a type first before becoming captain.

The system goes like this;If you are a FO company tells you in which fleet you will fly depending on its need.Same experience FO's who joins two months apart each other,might find themselves in different fleets (one in 777 the other on 320)The captains are different.On the day you finish your captain training,you get your seniority number.And according to this,you get upgraded to the bigger equipment.In the past it was more than 10 years for the captains to move on to big league,I am very lucky to reach in 7 years.

A captain is always a captain for the company,so if you change to anothert ype within the company you get trained as captain on the type.For experience purposes we fly 50 hours of LIFUS (Line Flying Under Supervision ) training,which we fly with TRI's to get experience on route competence like oceanic crossing,etops procedures etc.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 3):
Welcome to the big league, Wing

Thank you very much and I appreciate your insight as always very valuable info and tips.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 3):
Next step the A380 ?

Who knows?There are rumors that THY will announce something big by the end of this year.Maybe in another 10 years I may be writing another report about it 
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DocLightning
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting wing (Reply 5):

Who knows?There are rumors that THY will announce something big by the end of this year.

748i! 748i! 748i! Heck, maybe Wilco737 will be your instructor!  

Congrats on the A330! And thank you so much for your insights as to how she is to fly.

[Edited 2014-08-27 12:58:40]
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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vikkyvik
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:49 pm

Quoting wing (Thread starter):
but I was kind of disappointed to see the most important part "the table" is modified to be EFB when opened,so the size is smaller and I kind of didnt like it.

Ahhhh, priorities.... ;-D

Congrats, Wing!
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:42 am

Quoting wing (Reply 5):
Quoting Woodreau (Reply 4):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):

Thank you all for your insights. So its more like "once a captain, always captain", not a NB FO, WB FO, NB Cpt, WB Cpt. career scheme? Does this also mean that the payment for a captain is always higher than that of a senior FO, then (in the same airline, of course)?

I guess flying an A330 means more long-distance flights, so there might be different challenges a captain must cope with on those flights, correct (less flights, yet more problems with jet lag, more cabin crew, higher chance for unruly passengers, more international passengers)?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:32 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 8):
So its more like "once a captain, always captain", not a NB FO, WB FO, NB Cpt, WB Cpt. career scheme? Does this also mean that the payment for a captain is always higher than that of a senior FO, then (in the same airline, of course)?

I guess flying an A330 means more long-distance flights, so there might be different challenges a captain must cope with on those flights, correct (less flights, yet more problems with jet lag, more cabin crew, higher chance for unruly passengers, more international passengers)?

Although we can generalize, if you ask pilots from ten different airlines you might well get ten different answers. 

For example, an airline like CX has no narrowbodies, so the 330, 777 and 747 are regularly flying two or three hour segments.

Some airlines see widebodies as the pinnacle, while at others this is not necessarily the case.

At many airlines it also depends somewhat on pilot preference. There are many senior pilots who bid on narrowbody so they can get more shorthaul, and thus sleep at home more. This skews things away from "senior pilots fly widebodies".

You also have pilots who don't want to upgrade to Captain because at their airline they went from regional F/O to international F/O to long-haul F/O, but then for Captain they're back to regional and have to slowly make their way back up the ladder but sitting three feet further to the left.

[Edited 2014-08-28 01:34:17]

[Edited 2014-08-28 01:35:04]

[Edited 2014-08-28 01:36:00]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:52 am

Thank you (I guess this was enough off - topic, sorry, @wings, for that) - so maybe time to focus again on the a330  

So, @Wing, where are you flying with the A330?

[Edited 2014-08-28 01:53:16]
 
Pihero
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:52 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
You also have pilots who don't want to upgrade to Captain because at their airline they went from regional F/O to international F/O to long-haul F/O

That's quite rare outside the US.
Airlines have generally two fleets : 1/- Short to medium range with single aisle airplanes ; and 2/- medium to long haul on widebodies..
Inside these two fleets, there are aircraft sizes and the salary is based on
- seniority in the position ( F/O or Capt )
- The type's max weight
- The commercial speed of that type ( includes TO, climb, cruise, descent and approach ) so that on long haul, the influence of the slower speeds for climb, descent and approach are reduced.
So, in very broad terms, a F/O is paid about 60% of a captain salary, the pay is highest on the 380.

That pay system is by no means ideal : a seven year F/O on long haul would be paid higher than a starting 320 captain : this is called the *long haul salary bump* and quite a few SFOs would wait another six to ten years before their airline seniority would allow them to bid for a left-hand seat on long haul. That is always a risky choice, their command course will be a lot heavier than for a short haul captain who would just transfer into a wide body LHS.
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wing
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 10):
So, @Wing, where are you flying with the A330?

THY uses the A330 in lots of different roles.Ofcourse its a long haul plane but it can also handle medium and even high capacity short haul routes.The best part of being in this fleet for me is to fly long haul(8 hours or more) and also have couple of fun flights from istanbul to european region and come back to sleep at home in the evening.
Some very busy european airports spesificly request for bigger airplanes,rather than having multiple medium aircraft.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
umit
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:17 pm

Congradtion , hope to fly with you one day ....
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:56 pm

Are you flying the A330 only, or are you also flying the A340? Kind of a waste if they don't have a common pilot pool.
 
wing
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:32 am

Quoting umit (Reply 13):
Congradtion , hope to fly with you one day ....

thanks buddy,you are wellcome any day  
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 14):
Are you flying the A330 only, or are you also flying the A340? Kind of a waste if they don't have a common pilot pool.

Yes we fly both types.Pilots require a one day ground course for the type differences and 2 session simulator(one for training one for checking).And you fly both types.NOwadays THY is starting to phase out the A340's.In 2016 we will have only 4 with all economy configuration to fly Hadj and high density domestic operations.So our chances of flying the A340 is getting lesser,more on A330 and I say I never complain about it.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:41 am

Quoting wing (Reply 15):
.So our chances of flying the A340 is getting lesser,more on A330 and I say I never complain about it.

So did you fly the A340, as well? If so, while it seems you certainly prefer the A330, how do you like the A340?
 
wing
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:07 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 16):
So did you fly the A340, as well? If so, while it seems you certainly prefer the A330, how do you like the A340?

Until now I only flew the A340 in the simulator to get the rating on my licence but not the real aircraft yet.Getting an A340 is lesser chance nowadays than the A330.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Captain Wing's First Impressions Flying The A 330

Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:15 am

Quoting wing (Reply 17):
Until now I only flew the A340 in the simulator to get the rating on my licence but not the real aircraft yet.Getting an A340 is lesser chance nowadays than the A330.

I see. Well if you get to fly it, we are happy to hear your comments (especially about the world famous climb perfomance of the A340   ).

Thank you for your input so far.

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