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Delta RON Crew Scheduling

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:00 pm
by TW870
I have a question about crew scheduling for RON aircraft at small outstations. I will put this question in Delta context, but it could apply to all carriers.

Delta has several stations where an aircraft operates the last flight of the day, overnights, and departs early in the morning, and is the only mainline aircraft at the station. At Evansville, Indiana, for example, a 717 arrives from ATL at 21:27 local and departs at 06:00 the next morning. That puts the aircraft on the ground for 8:27. All other aircraft are regional jets at EVV for DL.

I assume that an 8:27 layover is too short for pilots with FAR 117 - and in fact may have been too short under the previous ALPA agreement. Plus, if they carry any delay out of ATL, they would have to push the morning operation back even if they were legal for the 8:27 layover, which would have downline effects the whole next day. Do they crew the trip as a "stand-up" or one duty period assignment, where the crew remains on duty but gets a day room at the hotel during the night? I would assume they could do so to get around legal rest requirements, but that it would make the trip much more expensive for the airline because of the RIG pay for the 8 hour sit (pilots would get either trip rig credit or duty rig credit depending on how their legalities work).

Or they could conversely lay them over for 32 hours, which would also have high duty rig and hotel costs. I was a UA flight attendant, and we never operated stations like this. I am curious about the economics of this type of operations for flight attendants, pilots, and the airline.

RE: Delta RON Crew Scheduling

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:01 am
by e38
Ryan,
for the most part, I am unable to address the economics of this operation; however, I can mention briefly the scheduling of crews.

As far as I know, the pilots at Delta are not scheduled to work the Continuous Duty Overnight/Stand-Up/High-Speed type trips; as a result, the pilots on this routing ATL - EVV, as well as ATL - CRW (and there may be others) are scheduled for 30+ hour layovers.

The flight attendants, on the other hand, are assigned this routing as a two day trip (as you mentioned, Stand-Up trip) with a layover slightly longer than 8 hours (and, yes, as you mentioned, at a hotel near the airport). Occasionally, they may also be scheduled this routing as part of a longer trip, in which case they will layover 30+ hours concurrent with the pilots.

e38

RE: Delta RON Crew Scheduling

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:34 pm
by DualQual
The pilots can also be deadheaded in or out on another flight after a legal layover or into a legal layover. So if DL didn't want a crew to sit for 30+ hours or if the mainline flight isn't operating daily the pilots would deadhead out after rest on an RJ. Conversely, the guys doing the early go could DH in the previous afternoon on an express flight.

RE: Delta RON Crew Scheduling

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:37 pm
by a320ant
At AGS, we have a schedule similar to this, the DL pilots here either have a 30 hr layover or sometimes the pilots for our mainline turn in the evening would swap with the crew that flew the last Ron in the previous night and those pilots would fly the first flight out in the morning. Usually it's a 717 for the first flight out and the evening turn, and an Md-88 for the 2nd morning departure. Sometimes we just get 2 88's and no mainline turn but with this the pilots who arrived on the first RON which usually arrives around 8ish would fly the 5:45 departure, and the pilots that flew the 2nd Ron which gets in at about 11 would take the 2nd morning departure out.

RE: Delta RON Crew Scheduling

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:36 pm
by exFWAOONW
before the new rules, didn't RC and NW schedule "illegal turns" in outstations? I believe the crew received extra pay and a "time credit" toward flying hours for the month making it more desirable, as I noticed it wasn't always a junior crew making that quick turn.

RE: Delta RON Crew Scheduling

Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:12 am
Don’t know much about US Airliners, but at LH they often schedule them as follows;
Example:
Aircraft 1 Arrives 10:00 / leaves 11:00
Aircraft 2 arrives 15:00 / leaves 16:00
Aircraft 3 arrives 22:00 / leaves 6:00

Crew aircraft 1 stays on the plane
Crew aircraft 2 will leave next day with aircraft 3
Crew aircraft 3 will leave next day with aircraft 2
In case a different amount of FA are required they either deadhead or stay longer (e.g. A319 vs A321)

I’ve recognized a similar pattern for KA/Dragon on the HKGPVG - HKG route.
It’s amazing how many crews they have in the crew Hotel for a ~2.5 h flight, but given also the huge delays they have on that route guess they can’t risk crews running out of duty time.

RE: Delta RON Crew Scheduling

Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:21 am
by northwestEWR
Quoting DualQual (Reply 2):
The pilots can also be deadheaded in or out on another flight after a legal layover or into a legal layover. So if DL didn't want a crew to sit for 30+ hours or if the mainline flight isn't operating daily the pilots would deadhead out after rest on an RJ. Conversely, the guys doing the early go could DH in the previous afternoon on an express flight.

This is what United likes to do, very very common to see something like Shuttle America E70 crews coming in on the afternoon ExpressJet ERJ so they can spend the night and operate the first flight out in the AM. I've even seen three crews on one ERJ... I'm sure that's good for yields.

Delta seems to do less DH legs than United but that's probably due to their connection carriers having primary bases. Eg, DTW is almost always Endeavor, ATL is almost always ExpressJet.

RE: Delta RON Crew Scheduling

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:56 am
by Thenoflyzone
Quoting TW870 (Thread starter):
At Evansville, Indiana, for example, a 717 arrives from ATL at 21:27 local and departs at 06:00 the next morning. That puts the aircraft on the ground for 8:27. All other aircraft are regional jets at EVV for DL.

Same thing for YUL. Only one DL mainline flight. A 717 comes in from ATL at 11 pm. Leaves the next morning around 8h30 I think. Always wondered if the same crew operated the return flight. I now have my answer.

Thanks guys.

RE: Delta RON Crew Scheduling

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:39 pm
by Thenoflyzone
Correction, YUL departure is at 6h50 am. So only 7h50 min layover.

[Edited 2014-11-17 04:42:01]