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dcaord
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Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:42 am

Simple question: Do any pilots fly different aircraft types at the same time, or are pilots only rated for one equipment type at a time and simply move from one to another as their seniority changes and seats open? Essentially, could a pilot fly the 737 in the morning then have a second flight that day flying the 767? Or for regionals, could a pilot fly the CRJ200 in the morning then the -900 in the afternoon, if that makes sense?
 
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longhauler
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:46 am

Yes, it makes sense. And, it is explained very well in this thread, (hidden in another section):

Dual Certified Pilots? (by 29erUSA187 Dec 6 2014 in Tech Ops)
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
flymia
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:32 am

It all depends on if the type rating is the same for certain airplanes and airlines policies. To my knowledge I do not know of any major airlines that allow pilots to fly say a 747 one week and an A320 the next. Safety is the easy reason why.

However some aircraft pilots can fly dual as they have the same type rating and the cockpits are very similar to almost exactly the same.
A318/A320/A321 will almost always fly different ones day in and out.
737-300 thru the 900 as well.
MD-80/88/90
757/767
744/748
ERJ 170/190

I am not sure if the CRJ-200 and CRJ-700/900 share the same rating.

All are commonly have pilots flying one aircraft one day and another type the next or even the same day.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
reltney
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:07 pm

This is cool.

My fathers logbook in May 1968 has him flying capt on the CV440, DC6, DC9 and F/O in the DC8 and CV880 at Delta. It was a fluke but happened. The DC6 happened by accident as when they landed at ORD the 9 broke and they subbed a DC6 to ATL but could not find a Capt. My father just happened to still have his 90 day 3 landings and was still current. Also, the CV440 he had just did his last flight on 1 may.

He explained back in the "old" days , you checked out when you could and kept current when you could get your landings in while the plane overnighted and an instructor was available till you were able to hold the position as a regular line holder. They did a lot of training at night between flights.

Reltney
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:25 pm

Quoting reltney (Reply 3):
He explained back in the "old" days , you checked out when you could and kept current when you could get your landings in while the plane overnighted and an instructor was available till you were able to hold the position as a regular line holder. They did a lot of training at night between flights.

And unfortunately a large number of fatal accidents occurred during training flights at night. DL smashed a DC-8 into the Hilton Hotel at MSY killing all of their crew and a large number of traveling students asleep at their hotel. They were practicing "engine out" maneuvers. EA did the same thing into Lake Ponchetrain and there were numerous others. So now, due to safety, the price of fuel and the sophistication of simulators, the dangerous maneuvers can be performed on the ground.

[Edited 2015-02-27 07:31:00]

[Edited 2015-02-27 07:31:37]
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
Cipango
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:31 pm

I commented on this a few hours ago any now my post has been deleted? I didn't say anything heated or controversial, just that A320 and A321 pilots can alternate.

Wonder why it was deleted....?
Let's fly! Unless it's on a CRJ 200, then I'll stay down here.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:35 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 2):
I am not sure if the CRJ-200 and CRJ-700/900 share the same rating.

They do. All that's required is differences training.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
reltney
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:39 pm

DTWpurser boy, correct! Big deal and the DC8 accident was the icing on the cake. The CVR spelled out a lot about midnight training. Also, that was a 2 engine out(on one side) approach with a guy checking out on the 8 for the first time. Simulators were not of the calibre they are today as you well know. Good input. Eastern in the lake was a revenue flight I thought and they had the runaway trim. Never found the plane either.

Reltney
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:02 pm

Actually, if you asked really nice, NW would allow a f/a to ride the extra simulator jumpseat if it was not a major check ride or some special deal. They liked the idea of f/a's seeing the shaky, scary stuff from the pilots training perspective.

It also helped if you had a friend in the training department in MSP. Not sure if DL kept up the practice or not.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
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Vio
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:06 pm

I can't speak for the airlines, but I was type rated on the B200 and the B1900 at the same time. I was a "floater pilot" so I flew when they needed me to fill in. Now this was not a "short notice thing" I basically covered for my colleagues who were away at sim or on vacation.

Oddly enough I now have three type ratings (also the Lear 35), but I don't fly the B200 or B1900 anymore. My company will probably let them lapse as they need me more on the jet. I guess if they needed me they can call me up, that's why on my down time, I read up and stay on top of what I need to know in order to fly them safely.

But no, I don't go switching back and forth.
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:18 pm

not sure what you mean by midnight trg since our sims went about 20hrs a day with 4 for maint. As for the DC-8 at MSY I used to have the accident report on that and there were several factors that lead to the final crash. The Standards Chk pilot and the new capt were friends with very similar flight experience. They not only had 2 eng out on one side but had failed the rudder boost. The new capt was having trouble holding the plane coordinated and on airspeed. The chk capt selected the next flap selection without the new capt calling for it which made control harder to maintain. Best I remember there was about 1 ½ minutes of crewmembers calling for the new capt to "step on the ball" & "watch your airspeed" before finally losing it. At any point had the chk Capt decided the situation had deteriorated too much and just given him back the engines with a "let's go look at that again" they would all lived.
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:20 pm

I should have addressed the question too, we were dual rated in the MD-11 & MD-10 which no one liked. Also 757 & 767
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:49 am

Quoting dcaord (Thread starter):
Simple question: Do any pilots fly different aircraft types at the same time, or are pilots only rated for one equipment type at a time and simply move from one to another as their seniority changes and seats open? Essentially, could a pilot fly the 737 in the morning then have a second flight that day flying the 767? Or for regionals, could a pilot fly the CRJ200 in the morning then the -900 in the afternoon, if that makes sense?

At Delta pilots bid into a pilot group and they then stay in that group of aircraft until they bid to a different group and go through the training. You aren't going to change groups every single bid. Most guys only change a few times over their career. Here's what our groups look like:
717 pilot group (717 only)
737 pilot group (73G, 738, 739)
7ER group (757-200/300, 767-300 and 300ER)
764 pilot group (only flies the 767-400ER)
777 pilot group (777-200ER/LR)
A32X group (A319/A320)
A33X group (A330-200/300)
Maddog Group (MD-88/MD-90)

On the Delta Connection side I believe all the operators now fly the CRJ under the same type. So yes, you could do a -200 then -900, back to -200, etc. It's the same thing on mainline, you might do a combination of 757/763 or M88/M90 in a single day.
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
Tangowhisky
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:47 am

What about non Part 121 operators like Netjest. Can a pilot fly a GV and GEX?
Only the paranoid survive
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:08 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 4):
So now, due to safety, the price of fuel and the sophistication of simulators, the dangerous maneuvers can be performed on the ground.

Yes, but there is no legal requirement to use a sim. I got a 1900 type rating in the airplane, doing nothing but airplane training.

Quoting vio (Reply 9):

I can't speak for the airlines, but I was type rated on the B200 and the B1900 at the same time. I was a "floater pilot" so I flew when they needed me to fill in. Now this was not a "short notice thing" I basically covered for my colleagues who were away at sim or on vacation.

When I flew 135, we had quite a few dual qualified single pilot captains. Only a very select few, with management approval, were approved for 3 airframes at the same time. I was, at one point, qualified in a 1900 and a piston twin at the same time.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
BravoOne
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:29 pm

Don't know what NJ's policy but it's probably contract driven. Keep in mind that multiple quals call for multiple recurrent training events that take the crews away
from their primary duty. Also costs a fortune.

As for a Part 91 operator there is nothing other than costs and time to keep on from flying any number of different airplanes and I know of one operator that does keep their crews qualified in both the G550 and GLEX.
 
fghtngsiouxatc
Posts: 166
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:22 am

At Netjets, from what I remember, these are their separate pilot groups.

C560 Encore
C560 Encore+
Phenom 300
Citation Excel/XLS
Hawker 800/900
Citation Sovereign
Citation X
Gulfstream G200
Challenger 350
Falcon 2000
Falcon 2000 EX
Gulfstream IV/V
Gulfstream G450/550
Global 5000/6000
 
Tangowhisky
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:53 am

Quoting fghtngsiouxatc (Reply 16):
At Netjets, from what I remember, these are their separate pilot groups.

that must be difficult to manage with 14 different pilot groups. Time for family commonality design concept by OEMs
Only the paranoid survive
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:00 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 2):
A318/A320/A321 will almost always fly different ones day in and out.

Interestingly, I spoke with an A319 pilot for EasyJet and he told me that they do not cross-fleet between their A319s and A320s. I found that very interesting.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:26 am

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 17):
that must be difficult to manage with 14 different pilot groups. Time for family commonality design concept by OEMs

Why? A vast majority of business jet operators operate 1 aircraft. There is simply no need for commonality, except for a place like NetJets.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
LH707330
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:53 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
Interestingly, I spoke with an A319 pilot for EasyJet and he told me that they do not cross-fleet between their A319s and A320s. I found that very interesting.

That's anomalous for sure. Maybe it's a payscale/seniority thing.
 
jumpseat
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:17 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):

That's definitely not the case.
 
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longhauler
Posts: 6488
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RE: Pilot Aircraft Assignments

Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:26 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
Interestingly, I spoke with an A319 pilot for EasyJet and he told me that they do not cross-fleet between their A319s and A320s. I found that very interesting.

That is very odd, as the A319/A320 are virtually identical (by design) in both systems and handling. The A321 is a little different from the two, but still only that one would slightly notice.

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 20):
Maybe it's a payscale/seniority thing.

That could be the only thing I could imagine.

I remember when Air Ontario (eventually became a part of Jazz) had separate crewing between the DHC-8-100 and the -300. Pay/seniority was the main reason.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!

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