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winterlight
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Posts: 1432
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Damage To This E145?

Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:05 pm

Saw this arrive on stand at ABZ today. A cover appears to be missing ahead of the wing?

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff103/allan286/145_zpspzeimmvd.jpg
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 3790
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RE: Damage To This E145?

Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:38 pm

That's the fuel panel.

Wonder what happened.

I assume it is safe to fly with it removed, as the fuel cap will protect the fuel system from the outside air.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
copter808
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RE: Damage To This E145?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:59 am

In all probability, the last person to refuel it didn't put the cap on or close the door. Should have been noticed on pushback, but was apparently missed then too. Should be a quick fix assuming the missing part didn't damage anything else.

A question though, did it arrive like that? With the door missing and the cap off? I would expect the cap to be making quite a bit of noise and minor damage as it was blowing around. Frankly, I'm surprised to see it still attached for that matter.
 
AST1Driver
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RE: Damage To This E145?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:33 am

It is not unusual to see aircraft with missing panels. Everything from lav doors, air and ground power connections, even flap fairing covers can be removed with out any issue. A notation is made in the log book and send it on its way. I am not real familiar with the E145, but I am sure this is a similar situation. Now if this is new damage, someone will have some explaining to do from the downline station as to why the panel was not secured properly. One thing interesting with this photo, is that the light inside the panel appears to be on. Does make you wonder if it might be new. In any event, the ground crew or pilots should have seen this on their predeparture walk around.
 
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CrimsonNL
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RE: Damage To This E145?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:28 pm

If you look closely it would appear that the door panel is still attached? Pretty much all servicing door panels have hinges toward the flight direction so that air flow will keep the door shut in flight even though it's not locked.

I've seen quite a few aircraft arrive after a flight with the ground power access panel open etc..

Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
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winterlight
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RE: Damage To This E145?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:21 pm

It taxied on to stand like this. Pax are still on board in the photo.
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
copter808
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RE: Damage To This E145?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:02 pm

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 4):
If you look closely it would appear that the door panel is still attached? Pretty much all servicing door panels have hinges toward the flight direction so that air flow will keep the door shut in flight even though it's not locked.

Darn!! As many of those as I have refueled and I can't remember if the hinges are on the top, front, or bottom!
 
thegman
Posts: 513
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RE: Damage To This E145?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 4):

If you look closely it would appear that the door panel is still attached? Pretty much all servicing door panels have hinges toward the flight direction so that air flow will keep the door shut in flight even though it's not locked.

I've seen quite a few aircraft arrive after a flight with the ground power access panel open etc..

Martijn

I can think of a bunch of servicing doors on various aircraft that do not hinge with the flow.
 
N353SK
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RE: Damage To This E145?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:28 pm

I believe it can be flown for several days without that panel. The aircraft may be restricted to 250 knots.
 
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cotparampguy
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RE: Damage To This E145?

Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:02 am

It looks like it's still attached, just open. If you look down where the tire of the car is it's being blocked by something.
 
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glen
Posts: 345
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RE: Damage To This E145?

Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:14 am

Quoting COTPARampguy (Reply 9):
It looks like it's still attached, just open.

I think of a situation whrere it was not properly closed at departure and therefore unlocked at any time during the flight (i.e. taxi-out, T/O, landing, taxi-in). If it unlocked proir or during take-off it would be more or less flush with the fuselage during flight due to the airflow and swing open on ground again due to its weight.

Quoting AST1Driver (Reply 3):
One thing interesting with this photo, is that the light inside the panel appears to be on.

For sure an automatic light switch operated by the door itself: Door closed - light off; door open - light on. That's a very common solution for access panels.

Quoting thegman (Reply 7):
I can think of a bunch of servicing doors on various aircraft that do not hinge with the flow.

That's true, but if possible a forward swinging door is for sure the safer solution.
On the A320 for example we have different doors for the fuel service panel. The older airframes have doors hinged at top with latches which have to get locked manually. If that door stays open it would be teared off during flight. The newer airframes have doors hinged at the front end (like on the Embraer in the picture) with self-locking latches.
"The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view." - Albert Einstein
 
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Classa64
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RE: Damage To This E145?

Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:40 pm

Would there be any indication in cockpit for this little door.?
"Freedom is the miles i'm rolling on"
 
INFINITI329
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

RE: Damage To This E145?

Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:59 pm

Quoting AST1Driver (Reply 3):
In any event, the ground crew or pilots should have seen this on their predeparture walk around

Pilots not really because their walk around is usually done prior to fueling being completed.

Quoting classa64 (Reply 11):
Would there be any indication in cockpit for this little door.?

I think some newer generation aircraft may have that capability
 
flight152
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Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Damage To This E145?

Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:46 am

Quoting classa64 (Reply 11):

Yes. The E145 has both a cautionary EICAS message for an open fuel door and it's depicted on the MFD doors page.
 
ual777
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RE: Damage To This E145?

Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:56 pm

Panel is still attached. It' swings forward and can be seen in front of the tire of the vehicle behind. The resolution in the photo is low but the cap appears intact as well. The fueling panel on the emb-145 has 6 push type locks that are a little bigger than your thumb. 2 on top, bottom, and the left side of the panel. The light being on is normal. It illuminates when the panel is opened so ground service personnel can see the refueling panel itself. May have just been a hard landing that popped the panel open and the wind caught it and opened it.

Source: 2800 hours flying the Emb-145.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
A10WARTHOG
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:32 am

RE: Damage To This E145?

Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:50 pm

If you CDL the fuel door, beside the 250 kt speed restriction you also MEL the refueling system by lock wiring the door switch in the panel closed postion. That means the fueler have to overwing fuel the airplane
 
ThePinnacleKid
Posts: 528
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:47 am

RE: Damage To This E145?

Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:49 pm

Quoting ual777 (Reply 14):

Panel is still attached. It' swings forward and can be seen in front of the tire of the vehicle behind. The resolution in the photo is low but the cap appears intact as well. The fueling panel on the emb-145 has 6 push type locks that are a little bigger than your thumb. 2 on top, bottom, and the left side of the panel. The light being on is normal. It illuminates when the panel is opened so ground service personnel can see the refueling panel itself. May have just been a hard landing that popped the panel open and the wind caught it and opened it.

Source: 2800 hours flying the Emb-145.

6300 hrs flying the 145.... ^^^^ ual777 is correct and yes, this panel is indeed one that closes in direction of flight style...
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
CcrlR
Posts: 2195
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:24 am

RE: Damage To This E145?

Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:16 am

Quoting AST1Driver (Reply 3):
It is not unusual to see aircraft with missing panels. Everything from lav doors, air and ground power connections, even flap fairing covers can be removed with out any issue. A notation is made in the log book and send it on its way. I am not real familiar with the E145, but I am sure this is a similar situation. Now if this is new damage, someone will have some explaining to do from the downline station as to why the panel was not secured properly. One thing interesting with this photo, is that the light inside the panel appears to be on. Does make you wonder if it might be new. In any event, the ground crew or pilots should have seen this on their predeparture walk around.

As someone who works on the E145 aircraft you can defer the door. There is a speed penalty. Most of the panels can be removed per the Configuration Deviation List(CDL-similar to an MEL). There are speed penalties for some of them but we rarely get fueling doors, we mostly get the GPU panel covers come off from someone who does not secure them properly. The fuel cap I am more concerned about due to the damage it may do the surrounding area depending how far that cap traveled in the airstream while tethered to the fueling adapter.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)

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