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fallap
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Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:19 am

In case of a fire in flight, is it possible to reset the system - allowing fuel, hydraulics, and bleed-air to resume their normal flow?

Or is it a point of no return?

My question is not directed at any specific aircraft type, and I would be happy to learn about different types of aircraft relation to this issue.

Kind regards

- Philip
Ex grease monkey buried head to toe inside an F-16M
Now studying Political Science
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:35 am

Generally, yes the fire handle can be reset in flight.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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mmo
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:59 am

If you have fired the bottle after a fire indication, then the QRH specifically prohibits resetting the fire handle. If, however, the fire warning went out when you pulled the fire handle you can reset the handle to provide EDP lubrication.

Personally, I would leave the handle pulled in either situation as you don't know the exact cause of the fire. The only system you will get back is the EDP for the respective engine, the bleed air and fuel will not reset because the engine is not running. The EDP will be at windmilling flow and as the aircraft slows down you will lose that EDP.

If you are asking "can you start the engine" then that answer is no!!
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:23 am

Quoting mmo (Reply 2):
If you are asking "can you start the engine" then that answer is no!!

Why not? The engine can be physically started. Would you? No.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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mmo
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:05 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Why not? The engine can be physically started. Would you? No.

Absolutely not! First of all, if you shut it down for a fire then why would you restart it? If you had to fire both bottles to get the fire extinguished, then what do you do if you have another fire indication after restarting the engine. Generally, if there has been a fire, there will be some damage, again, why restart the engine?
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting mmo (Reply 4):
Absolutely not!

Maybe the OP can correct me, but I took the question as:

Quoting Fallap (Thread starter):
is it possible to reset the system - allowing fuel, hydraulics, and bleed-air to resume their normal flow?

As in: is it theoretically possible that the engine can be restarted?

And, the answer is yes. As long as most of the bits and pieces are still working, there is no reason the engine will not start. There is no lock-out, such as you have with an CSD/IDG disconnect.

But, absent some higher level emergency, why would you even attempt a restart?
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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Horstroad
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:25 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 5):
But, absent some higher level emergency, why would you even attempt a restart?

When you scut off the wrong engine for example...
 
mmo
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:26 pm

Quoting horstroad (Reply 6):
When you scut off the wrong engine for example...

That is why you always want to confirm what the PNF is doing. Even with an engine fire, there is no need to rush. First thing you do is confirm and then you confirm again.
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AAR90
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:47 pm

Is it possible.... Yes

Would you want to.... Only if other engine(s) have a bigger problem.
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SAAFNAV
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:40 am

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 8):

Would you want to.... Only if other engine(s) have a bigger problem.

There's always that little exception that goes along the lines of: never restart an engine that has been shut down due to evidence of fire, unless, in the opinion of the pilot, a greater emergency exists.
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DiamondFlyer
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:02 pm

On the DC-9, should you pull the fire handle, you have to remember not to then open the bleed air lever for the associated engine, as opening the bleed air lever will retract the fire handle.

-DiamondFlyer
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Whiteguy
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:50 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 5):


And, the answer is yes. As long as most of the bits and pieces are still working, there is no reason the engine will not start. There is no lock-out, such as you have with an CSD/IDG disconnect.

But, absent some higher level emergency, why would you even attempt a restart?

If your restarting an engine with "most of the bits and pieces" still working then it isn't going to run for long.....

There's no way you should be restarting an engine that has had a fire indication, Darwin Award for sure....
 
Whiteguy
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:56 pm

Quoting Fallap (Thread starter):
In case of a fire in flight, is it possible to reset the system - allowing fuel, hydraulics, and bleed-air to resume their normal flow?

If you've had an engine fire in flight, following the QRC/QRH it would be shutdown and bottles most likely blown.....why would you want to introduce fuel or hydraulic fluid back into that engine system? If the engine is shutdown there's no need for fuel, the other engine and backup systems would operate everything you need...

After a fire you'd want to put the aircraft on the ground as quickly as possible, I don't know what emergency higher than that to require you to restart an engine with a fire in it....
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:03 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 11):
If your restarting an engine with "most of the bits and pieces" still working then it isn't going to run for long.....

There's no way you should be restarting an engine that has had a fire indication, Darwin Award for sure....

There is a difference between "could you" and "should you". As pointed out, you should not restart one, but you could if something even more dire compelled you to. I really can't imagine what that would be, but you could if you needed to. Whether it "would" start is an entirely different question.

I've seen engines running with all kinds of bits and pieces not working as designed...or at all.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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Whiteguy
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:07 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 11):
If your restarting an engine with "most of the bits and pieces" still working then it isn't going to run for long.....

There's no way you should be restarting an engine that has had a fire indication, Darwin Award for sure....

There is a difference between "could you" and "should you". As pointed out, you should not restart one, but you could if something even more dire compelled you to. I really can't imagine what that would be, but you could if you needed to. Whether it "would" start is an entirely different question.

I've seen engines running with all kinds of bits and pieces not working as designed...or at all.

Agree to disagree I guess, there's no way I'd be introducing fuel into an engine that already had a fire that needed to be put out.....
 
MHG
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:46 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 14):
Agree to disagree I guess, there's no way I'd be introducing fuel into an engine that already had a fire that needed to be put out.....

I´m 100% with you on that.

How anyone could even remotely consider relight an engine that was shut down due to fire is beyond me.
It´s like fighting to extinguish a pond of oil and just setting it on fire again intentionally   
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skyhawkmatthew
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:20 am

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 14):
Agree to disagree I guess, there's no way I'd be introducing fuel into an engine that already had a fire that needed to be put out.....
Quoting MHG (Reply 15):
How anyone could even remotely consider relight an engine that was shut down due to fire is beyond me.

I agree in general it seems like a Really Bad Idea.

But, say you're over the middle of the ocean in a twin, and get an engine fire indication (but engine otherwise running normally), so you shut it down. Then, a while later while en route to your ETOPS diversion field, the other engine suffers a catastrophic failure (say a turbine disk lets go). I'd sure as hell be restarting the first engine.

Granted, extremely unlikely – but if you're going to definitely die if you don't restart the engine (I don't really like the survival prospects of a dead-stick ditching in the middle of the ocean), you've got nothing to lose in restarting the first engine. You should get all services back except the generator (due to the IDG disconnect not being flight-resettable).

TL;DR: I would only consider restarting an engine with a fire indication if it's my only hope.

[Edited 2015-09-26 20:20:54]
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MHG
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RE: Can You Reset The Fire Protection System Inflight?

Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:08 am

Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 16):
But, say you're over the middle of the ocean in a twin, and get an engine fire indication (but engine otherwise running normally), so you shut it down. Then, a while later while en route to your ETOPS diversion field, the other engine suffers a catastrophic failure (say a turbine disk lets go). I'd sure as hell be restarting the first engine.

Really extreme imagination but I get your point.
Still, I´d be very hesitant to restart that engine and would only do so after visual inspection from the cabin ...

Imagine (taking your scenario) if there´s really a fuel leak and it sets the engine on fire during restart/running without having any extinguishing agent availlable anymore.
Then you likely won´t have even enough time left to ditch the aircraft in the ocean.
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.

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