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BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:39 pm
by readytotaxi
http://www.thebasource.com/british-a...eturns-from-singapore-maintenance/

Curious, this aircraft is just 2yrs old and spends 23 days out of service.
Questions.
1) Why does BA send this aircraft to SIN for maintenance, nothing closer?
2) Is this a usual service for a 2yr old plane and is 23 days the norm?
TIA

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:38 pm
by CPH-R
2 years is roughly the timeframe before an aircraft has to have a C-check, so presumably that's what it went in for?

XLEA went to SIN for its check a few months ago and it spent 21 days there, so I guess that's how long it takes.

By comparison, STBG, a B777-300ER was delivered a week before XLEA, has just spent 8 days in maintenance at CWL.

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:13 pm
by Tristarsteve
Quoting readytotaxi (Thread starter):
Why does BA send this aircraft to SIN for maintenance, nothing closer?

What has closer got to do with it?
With a fleet of 12 aircraft, it is not economic to perform major checks in the UK. There is not enough work to keep a line employed for more than about half the year, so BA decided to put it out to tender and Singapore won.

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:59 pm
by Matt6461
Quoting tristarsteve (Reply 2):
What has closer got to do with it?

I'd guess its last revenue trip was to SIN? Flying an A380 that distance costs about $200k...

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:21 am
by rta
I believe BA does not have a facility to work on this in house due to the size of the plane

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:40 am
by fr8mech
Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 3):
I'd guess its last revenue trip was to SIN? Flying an A380 that distance costs about $200k...

Can't speak for BA, but we fly revenue to heavy maintenance and swap out with the aircraft one coming out of heavy. Fly revenue away from the heavy maintenance facility.

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:06 am
by mmo
Quoting CPH-R (Reply 1):

2 years is roughly the timeframe before an aircraft has to have a C-check, so presumably that's what it went in for?

Under the BA maintenance program there are no more C/D checks for the 380. They are now done in phases and most likely the aircraft is having it's first C-1 check. The entire check is performed over a period of 10 years and there is a substantial savings in money. Most carriers have adopted this methodology.

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:39 am
by CaptainKramer
British Airways modified the roof section of 2 Hangars at it's Heathrow Maintenance Base to allow A380's to be housed, fully enclosed, but can't say for certain how either Hangar interior is equipped.

Given London Heathrow is A380 Central, was curious if there is a business case to set up Maintenance Fascilties for other Airlines that fly into LHR with this aircraft?

[Edited 2015-09-25 02:08:08]

[Edited 2015-09-25 02:14:09]

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:00 am
by KarelXWB
The A380 does not use A/B/C/D checks anymore, it uses scheduled maintenance intervals instead.

> G-XLEB went to SIN for scheduled maintenance.
> G-XLEC now took its place.

Some people still call it a 'C check' because it makes discussion on the subject easier.

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:45 pm
by TheSonntag
What are the hour limits of the A380, btw? Can it fly 100k hours as the B747 as well?

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:04 pm
by strfyr51
Phase maintenance checks sound "sexy" but as you get to the later phases the checks are really no different than a C or a D check and take just as long.
What they don't tell you is about the Corrosion visits which tears the airplane up as much as a heavy C check or D check. So,, the maintenance workload is no more or less in the long run. Different MFG's call them differeint things
"Emma" checks, "Phase" checks, "Letter" checks, "Equalized letter" checks..
In the end? you fare no better or worse IF you're doing adequate maintenance.
Corrosion isn't any better ,Fatigue isn't any better, and "worn out" is the same no matter What check you find it on.
It's all marketing. The manufacturers are trying to tell you that airplanes wear out "evenly"..
That's a bunch of BUNK!! The More Hours and Cycles on an airframe?? That's just More Work!!
When it's time to replace the Landing Gear for overhaul? Or?? The Aileron,Elevators, or spoiler actuators?? It's Time!!
I'll Bet that airplane is NOT "On Condition" yet. I suspect that's why it didn't sell well in the USA.
An OVERHAUL on a B747 or B777 takes 30 days. A Heavy C Check takes 10 days A and B checks take 8 hours to 2 days.
The multi-Level "M" checksthat United does for our B747's takes 24 hangar hours to accomplish with a 20-36 man crew over 3 shifts.
Which may or may not include time changed items but could include Engine changes. .
It's what EVER the airline is comfortable with and has the resources to accomplish.
With the A380? It could be for parts Pooling or Facility utilization that determines where the checks are accomplished.
A set of Jacks for the A380 could be cost prohibitive and make sense for the work to be "pooled".
Where the airplane Particular Tools might reap a return on investment. It doesn't make the check cycle better or Worse..
Only the Facility cost that's shared. And for the expertise of the Mechanics DONG the checks..
The greater number of checks accomplished be a group of mechanics on a single type?
The better they become at recognizing trends and faults on that airframe..
The more they see that Model of airplane? The faster they become at repairing it
The A380 is a game changer because of it's size. I'll bet Airbus NEVER Envisioned what costs would be incurred in buying and maintaining that airplane. Over the B747-8i but many if not all the tools designed to support the B747-8i could have been derived from the B747-100.-200.-300 and -400 from 1970 until NOW...
The A380 tooling is a 1 off for a family that may not ever happen.

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:08 pm
by Chaostheory
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 8):

The A380 does not use A/B/C/D checks anymore, it uses scheduled maintenance intervals instead.

> G-XLEB went to SIN for scheduled maintenance.
> G-XLEC now took its place.

Some people still call it a 'C check' because it makes discussion on the subject easier.

As mmo points out, this aircraft will be on the C-1 check which becomes due at 24 months. The A380 has 6 "C" checks within a base check cycle (C-1 thru to C-6). Each C check occurs at a 24 month interval with a base check cycle total of 144 months. The A320 and A330 MPD has also been recently revised from an 8 check cycle containing D checks to a 6 check cycle like the A380.

Just to confuse things a little further, within the base check cycle, you have "heavy" C checks which for the A380 will fall at the C-3 check (72 months) and C-6 check (144 months). Many of the tasks associated with the "heavy" C-3 and C-6 checks require deep access to the aircraft which usually means stripping seats, galleys, sidewalls etc. Someone more attune with A380 maintenance can correct me but I think the landing gear requires removal at C-6 too.

The first C-1 check requires a downtime of at least 19 days. If the aircraft requires wing rib modifications, and I'm unsure as to whether any BA A380s do, the downtime will increase to about 24 days.

Industry reports and feedback from A380 operators that have completed C-3 checks unfortunately isn't positive for Airbus.

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:47 pm
by Tristarsteve
Quoting CaptainKramer (Reply 7):
British Airways modified the roof section of 2 Hangars at it's Heathrow Maintenance Base to allow A380's to be housed, fully enclosed, but can't say for certain how either Hangar interior is equipped.

Given London Heathrow is A380 Central, was curious if there is a business case to set up Maintenance Fascilties for other Airlines that fly into LHR with this aircraft?

The problem is the staff. To carry out an A380 C check you need around 200 technicians. What are these 200 people going to do during the 6 months of the year when there is no C check in the hangar.
Ba did the sums and decided that it was cheaper to do the first round of C checks at SIN. When the costs have been analysed then this might change, but the hangars at LHR were not for C checks. These would be done at CWL, but a new hangar would be needed, and this is not cost efficient with only 12 aircraft.

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:51 pm
by KarelXWB
Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 11):
If the aircraft requires wing rib modifications, and I'm unsure as to whether any BA A380s do, the downtime will increase to about 24 days.

Wing rib modification takes up to two months.

The first 122 A380's required wing modification (that includes the first 3 BA frames) though BA had their wings fixed before delivery. Therefore BA C1 check took 'only' ~ 20 days.

http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...2a-JW2xik-4wOhT5xU/pub?output=html

Wing rib modification can also be done without maintenance check. Emirates had their fleet repaired even before the aircraft were due for maintenance.

[Edited 2015-09-25 07:06:38]

RE: BA A380, 23 Days In Maintenance.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:59 pm
by readytotaxi
Quoting tristarsteve (Reply 12):
The problem is the staff. To carry out an A380 C check you need around 200 technicians. What are these 200 people going to do during the 6 months of the year when there is no C check in the hangar.
Ba did the sums and decided that it was cheaper to do the first round of C checks at SIN. When the costs have been analysed then this might change, but the hangars at LHR were not for C checks. These would be done at CWL, but a new hangar would be needed, and this is not cost efficient with only 12 aircraft.

Thank you for the insight, it does make very good business sense.
Valued input.