Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
ArmitageShanks
Topic Author
Posts: 3780
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:30 am

Cockpit Video Of MD-90 In A Spin

Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:35 pm

Found this video on another aviation forum with this description. Thought it would be interesting here...

"We had a brief presentation on this at work a few months back. If I recall, it was an MD-90 being flown in steady heading sideslips for certification. I think they had never done this with the production tailcone installed (only the flight test cone with, ironically, the attitude recovery chute/cone installed). This maneuver had been benign in prior testing with the ARS tailcone, but when performing this for cert credit, it was, uh, not benign as you can see. Long story short, SHSSs out to full rudder deflection at low (1.13Vsr IIRC) can be nasty."

Here
 
thepinkmachine
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:43 pm

RE: Cockpit Video Of MD-90 In A Spin

Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:50 pm

Amazing and quite scary...

The thing that strikes me is the recovery - after rolling inverted and a second or two of hesitation, the PF recovered by pulling thru vertical, rather than rolling back upward with ailerons - this is a big 'no' in upset recovery/aerobatics, as it can cause a massive overspeed, over 'g' and tremendous altitude loss - as seen subsequently in the video.

Had exactly the same scenario as a fledgling instructor in a light plane. Tried to demonstrate to the stude the effect of rudder at near-stall speed. I had expected some form of benign stall, then suddenly found myself inverted, exactly like these guys in the video. I think I also recovered instinctively by pulling, losing 1000 ft in the process. But then, I was a 20yo 200 hour kid with no formal aerobatic/upset training. I thought test pilots would knew better...

[Edited 2015-10-04 14:02:02]
"Tell my wife I am trawling Atlantis - and I still have my hands on the wheel…"
 
ArmitageShanks
Topic Author
Posts: 3780
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:30 am

RE: Cockpit Video Of MD-90 In A Spin

Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:15 am

Quoting thepinkmachine (Reply 1):
The thing that strikes me is the recovery

Do you think he panicked?
 
thepinkmachine
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:43 pm

RE: Cockpit Video Of MD-90 In A Spin

Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:21 am

Panicked? Wouldn't say that. Caught by surprise and acted on instinct? Maybe. Would like to hear hear the full story on that event...
"Tell my wife I am trawling Atlantis - and I still have my hands on the wheel…"
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 5574
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

RE: Cockpit Video Of MD-90 In A Spin

Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:56 am

Scariest thing I've seen on the internet for a while.

I'm pretty sure they weren't expecting this.
They went for the Split-S recovery, which is probably the best thing they could have done, and were proficient enough to remember closing the thrust and extending the speedbrakes. They were careful not to overload the wing as well, although I'd be curious to know how many Gs they pulled.

For having done this once on a smaller and non-aerobatic airplane, I can tell you that seeing nothing but the planet coming straight at you through your windshield is not the best feeling in the world.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
User avatar
CARST
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

RE: Cockpit Video Of MD-90 In A Spin

Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:40 am

It's "the internet", so it doesn't have to be true, but the last guy commenting on the video at VIMEO suggests that this is the proper recovery technique for the DC-9/MD80/717 series aricraft, developed by company Global Flight Research together with MDD in 1989.

Quote:
I like to see my companies (Global Flight Research) Upset Recovery training Program has broken through the political walls. This training was developed in 1989 in the MD88 and progressed through the DC-9 series and into the 717.

Can anyone confirm this? Any DC-9/MD80/717 pilots here?
 
AAR90
Posts: 3140
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Cockpit Video Of MD-90 In A Spin

Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 5):
Can anyone confirm this? Any DC-9/MD80/717 pilots here?

I am not sure where y'all are getting the "split-S" recovery from. This wasn't even a spin. This was a departure from controlled flight resulting in an inverted nose-down attitude about 45 degrees right of the initial heading. Appears to have been a test flight as the crew was ready (listen to their vocalizations) for the stall/departure and applied appropriate "unusual attitude" recovery procedures (listen to their checklist callouts).... stabilize, roll upright, then adjust pitch with power & speed brakes as required/necessary. I have done this many times in simulators... the recovery, not the sideslip entry. AA's MD80 and Boeing's MD90 simulators very accurately replicate what this video of an actual "departure" shows.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Cockpit Video Of MD-90 In A Spin

Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:43 pm

Quoting thepinkmachine (Reply 1):
The thing that strikes me is the recovery - after rolling inverted and a second or two of hesitation, the PF recovered by pulling thru vertical, rather than rolling back upward with ailerons - this is a big 'no' in upset recovery/aerobatics, as it can cause a massive overspeed, over 'g' and tremendous altitude loss - as seen subsequently in the video.

You have to remember, though, that the MD-90 is a T-Tail, and as such is prone to deep stall...I'd imagine that an approved recovery technique is designed to avoid the onset of any aerodynamic blanking to the horizontal stabilizer  
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
NBGSkyGod
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 7:30 am

RE: Cockpit Video Of MD-90 In A Spin

Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:25 pm

By the way, this was the 717 not an MD-90. The -90 was EFIS only during flight testing. The 717 had the "Glass Cockpit". I have been unable to find any documentation on the Internets about this particular incident.
Pilots are idiots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 5574
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

RE: Cockpit Video Of MD-90 In A Spin

Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:10 am

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 6):
I am not sure where y'all are getting the "split-S" recovery from.

Due to the side slip, the left wing stalled, inducing a 180 degrees roll and leaving the airplane inverted and pitching towards the ground.
They recovered adequately, which completed what in essence looks like a split S.

It's just that you'd prefer to do it in a fighter jet than a heavy transport airplane...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
speedbird128
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:30 am

RE: Cockpit Video Of MD-90 In A Spin

Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:48 am

Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 8):
The -90 was EFIS only during flight testing.

Saudia operate MD90s with glass cockpits...



[Edited 2015-10-05 23:52:36]
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
NBGSkyGod
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 7:30 am

RE: Cockpit Video Of MD-90 In A Spin

Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:54 pm

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 10):
Saudia operate MD90s with glass cockpits...

Correct, however both flight test aircraft were EFIS. The "Glass Cockpit" test frame went to Saudia.
Pilots are idiots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
 
redflyer
Posts: 3905
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Cockpit Video Of MD-90 In A Spin

Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:20 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 4):
although I'd be curious to know how many Gs they pulled.

I don't think they were pulling a lot of G's. If you look at the PNF's left hand, he moves it freely from the arm of the PF to the throttles with relative ease right at the moment when the jet is pulling out of the dive, the moment they'd be experiencing max G's. At least that's how it appears to me.
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: harrisair and 15 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos