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TheSonntag
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Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:29 am

When looking at www.lh-taufnamen.de , one realises that the very first A320-200 from Lufthansa, D-AIPA Buxtehude, is still flying. It was delivered at October 16th, 1989 (the Berlin wall collapsed on November 9th, 1989).

Even if we take into account that the current D -AIPA flying probably does not include many more parts from the 1989 D-AIPA except the fuselage, I would like to know how big the difference between an 1989 built A-320 and a new CEO-A320 like D-AIUN from 13.04.2015 is.

Since D-AIUN has sharklets, maybe we can also compare D-AIPA to D-AIZO from 25.01.2013, the last one delivered with conventional winglets.

Are there many changes between the old A320 and such a new one?
 
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zeke
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:00 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):

There is a lot of differences, however even the aircraft that was delivered in 1989 would not be the same, it will have had a whole lot of upgrades (mainly in terms of avionics). The largest difference to the operator between the two would be the certified weights/payload/range and the maintenance procedures.
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apfpilot
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:54 pm

The new A230s have a new radome part number with different lightening diverters.
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a320fan
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:00 pm

The CRT vs LCD flight deck would probably be the most visible change to the flight crew. The layout and information provided is still generally the same between the two, but there are some small differences apparently. Would be interesting to know what these are tbh.
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TheSonntag
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:37 pm

Quoting a320fan (Reply 3):
The CRT vs LCD flight deck would probably be the most visible change to the flight crew.

I guessed so too. This is not changed, correct? So they keep the CRT, even when they are replaced?
 
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winterlight
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:56 pm

The engines sound slightly different now despite still being CFM.
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DocLightning
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:02 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 4):
I guessed so too. This is not changed, correct? So they keep the CRT, even when they are replaced?

I believe that the CRT displays can be replaced. Even on modern 744s still in service, the old CRTs are now replaced with LCDs. This offers a weight savings on the order of 10kg.
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QFA380
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:19 am

I'm fairly sure the very old A320's did not have GPS though probably an upgradeable option. These days they'd all have them.
The backup instruments are now one digital unit rather than 3 steam instruments.
Cabin systems, the FAs have their own terminals which would not have been as complex, galleys, overheads have changed.
LED external lighting is now standard.
The engines are now upgraded.
Beneath the surface things have probably been continually improving. No doubt changes to bleed and air conditioning architecture to make them more simple. Improvements for reliability of parts,

There are probably a huge number of differences that very few people would notice.
Changes to knobs and buttons, markings etc.

It is remarkable however how much hasn't changed in nearly 30 years the overall setup is largely the same and has barely been changed even moving to the brand new A350.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:30 am

Quoting winterlight (Reply 5):
The engines sound slightly different now despite still being CFM.

First of all, half of them have IAE V2500, not CFM.

The early versions have either CFM56-5A or V2500-A1, later versions have CFM56-5B or V2500-A5, which have surprisingly little in common with their 25+ years old ancestors.
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Okcflyer
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:45 am

Can you recertify a 5A or A1 frame with newer 5B or A5 engines?

Are the APU's still the same?

Any idea what the Empty weights are between early and late / optimized models?

Have any of the FBW / flight control computers been updated with faster / better processing power / memory?
 
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:42 am

After the fatal Lufthansa overrun in Warsaw the weight on wheels logic was changed to
allow full activation of ground spoilers and reverse with either main landing gear oleo
compression.
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TheSonntag
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:49 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 8):
The early versions have either CFM56-5A or V2500-A1, later versions have CFM56-5B or V2500-A5, which have surprisingly little in common with their 25+ years old ancestors

How is the fuel consumption, have there been significant improvements from the A1/5A to the A5/5B?
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:46 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
I believe that the CRT displays can be replaced.

It must be expensive. None of the BA fleet has been modified.
What I find is that the flight deck is so similar between an old A320 and a new one. There have been changes, like the standby instruments and the screens, but the rest is still the same.
The only major change that I notice is the wheel brake system. This was completely changed about 15 years ago, but older aircraft have not been modified.

Quoting Okcflyer (Reply 9):
Have any of the FBW / flight control computers been updated with faster / better processing power / memory?

I don't think so. To change a processor in a flight control system will involve hundreds of hours of flight test. Not going to be done if not essential.
The B747-400 has just received a new FMC after 25 years, but only because it is the same as the B747-8 one, which paid for all the flight test.
 
thepinkmachine
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:52 pm

A couple of years ago, when I was in Toulouse on A320 transition training, I met an Airbus design engineer and we discussed exactly that subject.

He claimed that, while on the surface the modern airplane was very similar to the original design, a lot has changed underneath - ie. most of the components/computers/software have been redesigned/updated since.

As for the cockpit and operation of the a/c - it has to be very similar to maintain the type certificate. So while there are differences between older and newer airframes, they are minor.

I was even wondering if Airbus wasn't a bit too conservative in sticking to the original design. On the A330/340, there are several little enhancements in the cockpit, which could be easily implemented into the 320. Minor stuff, but still would be neat to have, for easier operation and commonality between types. Still, even the brand-new 320's don't have those...
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zeke
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:22 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 2):
The new A230s have a new radome part number with different lightening diverters.

From memory the older radoms had to be replaced if predictive windshear was installed, they had the different lightening diverters as well as material to allow for the radar frequency change.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
I believe that the CRT displays can be replaced.

Correct

Quoting Okcflyer (Reply 9):

Can you recertify a 5A or A1 frame with newer 5B or A5 engines?

From memory a SB is available to do that.

Quoting Okcflyer (Reply 9):
Are the APU's still the same?

From memory no, new part number.

Quoting Okcflyer (Reply 9):
Any idea what the Empty weights are between early and late / optimized models?

The new ones are lighter, however the empty weights really depend on the airlines configuration.

Quoting Okcflyer (Reply 9):
Have any of the FBW / flight control computers been updated with faster / better processing power / memory?

Yes, the biggest difference that is noticeable is the speed and memory capacity of the FM.
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apfpilot
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:54 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 14):
From memory the older radoms had to be replaced if predictive windshear was installed, they had the different lightening diverters as well as material to allow for the radar frequency change.

Ah ha, do you know when the predictive windshear came into to production? I know they switched to quartz glass instead of Kevlar a while ago, the one with the internal diverters looks like a change with the A320 enhanced. Airbus hasn't even updated the AIPC or interchangeability to reflect this P/N
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winterlight
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:36 pm

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 8):
First of all, half of them have IAE V2500, not CFM.

We're talking about LH A320s here not A321s.
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mandala499
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:35 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 11):
How is the fuel consumption, have there been significant improvements from the A1/5A to the A5/5B?

The difference on a trip basis is about 3%-6% dwpending on weight and flight distance.. It's quite big.
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TheSonntag
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:05 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 17):
The difference on a trip basis is about 3%-6% dwpending on weight and flight distance.. It's quite big

Impressive. More than I would have thought.
 
wing
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:20 am

FMGS data base capacity and speed has increased.All new features introduced.Some locigs behind the AP system is also changed such as it used to capture the GS before LOC intercept now it can not.Expedite pb is intoduced.ACARS,CPDLC functions added.Wx Radar is changed.Predictive wind shear function added.ATSAW and TCAS with auto RA capability added.The RNAV approach and RNP AR capability introduced.Led taxi and landing lights,sharklets,steel cockpit doors, position of RAT changed,so it doesnt stall after 140 kts.Ofcourse the logic of flying the aircraft is changed so does the manuals.They are more user friendly now although still not quite as good as Boeing but improved alot.
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A342
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:50 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 18):
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 17):
The difference on a trip basis is about 3%-6% dwpending on weight and flight distance.. It's quite big

Impressive. More than I would have thought.

Less than I would have thought. It's like putting winglets on an aircraft. A substantial step change, yes, but not overwhelming.
The CFM56-5B or IAE V2500-A5 must have improved by approx. that amount over the years themselves, no?
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afterburner
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:10 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
This offers a weight savings on the order of 10kg.

How much money airlines save per year with this weight savings? Skinnier pilots can save more weight. 
 
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:54 am

If the ac burns 1300 gph and flies 400 hours per month that's 4800 hours.x 1300gph or around 6 million gallons if I'm not wrong. Around that. So $10 million annual fuel or so. A 0.5% improvement is $50,000 per year. Would a CRT replacement justify on that basis, no, but 20kg over a lifetime will save a decent amount, maybe $10,000 or more.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:01 pm

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 7):

I'm fairly sure the very old A320's did not have GPS though probably an upgradeable option. These days they'd all have them.

Indeed. Some of AC's oldest A320s don't have GPS. This is a problem at runways with only RNAV or NDB approaches in Canada during Low IMC conditions, such as Runway 25 in YOW, as an example.
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lightsaber
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:34 pm

Sharklets. Only newer A320s will receive them.
Some parts of the engines are the same such as bearings. The fan and low turbines have undergone significant improvements in the CFM family (I assume we're talking LH).

Quoting Flighty (Reply 22):

Since Airbus quotes a 15% reduction in fuel saves 1.4 million liters per year, a close enough assumption. That implies about a 9.5 million litter per year fuel consumption for a nominal utilization A320CEO. Your numbers would only be for B6 only.

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longhauler
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:41 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 23):
Indeed. Some of AC's oldest A320s don't have GPS. This is a problem at runways with only RNAV or NDB approaches in Canada during Low IMC conditions, such as Runway 25 in YOW, as an example.

About half of AC's A320s and A319s are not GPS equipped.

While they can not do an RNAV/GNSS approach, they can do an NDB approach. It is just not an overlay approach, but it is still managed/navigated laterally and vertically by the FMGC. The big difference is that the NDB has to be operational and monitored (even though not being used to navigate), where with an GNSS overlay NDB approach, the NDB does not have to be operational.

It's funny you mention Runway 25 in YOW. To me that is an indication that Canada is below third world in nav aids standards and always an embarrassment. I shuddered a few years ago when Air Force Two asked approach to confirm there was not an ILS on 25 in YOW!
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Florianopolis
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:33 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 25):
not an ILS on 25 in YOW

Is the 07 localizer strong enough to backcourse it these days? Does anybody do that anymore?
 
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longhauler
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:04 pm

Quoting Florianopolis (Reply 26):
Is the 07 localizer strong enough to backcourse it these days?

It used to be a back course approach. I suppose it still could be, but ...

Quoting Florianopolis (Reply 26):
Does anybody do that anymore?

I don't know if anyone does back course approaches any more.

My iPad Jepp app does not show a LOC/BC approach on 25 in YOW, just RNAV and NDB.
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:59 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 27):
I don't know if anyone does back course approaches any more.

All Back Course approaches in Canada have either (or will in the very near future) be replaced with either RNAV or LOC approaches. Classic example is YHZ's runway 05 which was given it's own LOC.
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Thenoflyzone
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:02 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 25):
To me that is an indication that Canada is below third world in nav aids standards and always an embarrassment.

Now this......

Quoting longhauler (Reply 25):
About half of AC's A320s and A319s are not GPS equipped.

...is an embarrassment.

Ottawa airport isn't going to invest millions on a new ILS on 25, when it's only the AC Airbuses that can't use the RNAV approach. Every other airline that flies into YOW can use it.

WS has been flying curved RNP approaches for years (saving tons of fuel doing so, as they are pretty much at idle thrust from TOD til touchdown, at least at YOW), and you guys still use steam gauges in your cockpits and fly NDB approaches, because the RNAV is off limits.

You tell me what's an embarrassment.

Tell your company to put them GPS's in them planes already !

No need for an ILS on rwy 25 when the RNAV GNSS approach gets you down to 250 ft DH with the LPV minimum. Hell some approaches even get you down to a DH of 200 ft (RNAV 24L at YUL, if memory serves)

Interesting tidbit. The number of LPV approaches in the States outnumbers the ILS approaches. Wouldn't be surprised if its the same thing in Canada.

But we are digressing here.....

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 24):
Sharklets. Only newer A320s will receive them.

Sharklets are also retrofitable. MSN 1200 and up. That's all frames from around the year 2000 and up. So that's a good chunk of all the flying A320s that can get sharklets, if the companies wish to do so.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...t-retrofit-for-older-a320s-392297/

[Edited 2015-11-27 17:31:28]
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longhauler
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:42 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 29):
Every other airline that flies into YOW can use it.

Tell that to the non GPS equipped B757 that was Air Force Two.

And, understand there is a difference between being GPS equipped, like First Air for example, and being GPS equipped AND being able to perform an RNAV approach using that GPS (First Air for example can not). They can't even do what the non GPS equipped A320s can do.

(btw, First Air flies into YOW. And I only use First Air as an example, as they fly into YOW a lot. It really applies to any airline that use GPS for navigation, but not certified for approach.)

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 29):

Ottawa airport isn't going to invest millions on a new ILS on 25, when it's only AC that can't use the RNAV approach.

It IS embarrassing when one can fly to just about every reasonable sized airport in the US, that has an ILS on every runway .... and our pathetic nation's capital has an ILS on only two of its four runways!

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 29):
WS has been flying curved RNP approaches for years (saving tons of fuel doing so, as they are pretty much at idle thrust from TOD til touchdown, at least at YOW), and you guys still use steam gauges in your cockpits and fly NDB approaches by hand, because the RNAV is off limits.

WS better not be at idle until touchdown ... that would qualify as an "unstabilised approach". And .... whether one does a curved RNAV approach, or a managed/managed NDB approach on a non-GPS A320, the decelerated fuel burn efficiency is the same.

And ... "we guys" don't do NDB approaches by hand.

In fact, the method of doing an NDB approach on a non-GPS A320 is identical to an RNAV approach with a GPS equipped A320! ... Surprise! ... The only difference is that the ground based NDB has to be operational in the non GPS aircraft, and not so in the GPS aircraft. But other than the GPS operating in the background the actual methodology is the same.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 29):

Tell your company to put them GPS's in them planes already !

The main reason they don't ... and they are waiting for the MAXs, is presently there are no operational problems with they way they are equipped. Not to mention ... the cost of installing GPS in an older A320, with the older FMS costs more than the airframe is worth!

The big advantage of ILS is that even with a CAT 1 approach, AC ops specs allows down to RVR 1600, (or even 1200 with the proper lighting). Which presently is unheard of with any GPS based approach.
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Thenoflyzone
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:50 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 30):
Tell that to the non GPS equipped B757 that was Air Force Two.

And, understand there is a difference between being GPS equipped, like First Air for example, and being GPS equipped AND being able to perform an RNAV approach using that GPS (First Air for example can not). They can't even do what the non GPS equipped A320s can do.

(btw, First Air flies into GPS for navigation, but not certified for approach.)

First Air has been flying the RNAV GNSS rwy 25 for years, and that's with their old B732s and B734s. Even Bearskin, with their old metroliners could fly the approach, back when they were still serving YOW.

Only you guys, i'm telling you. (and Air Force 2 apparently !)

Quoting longhauler (Reply 30):
The big advantage of ILS is that even with a CAT 1 approach, AC ops specs allows down to RVR 1600, (or even 1200 with the proper lighting). Which presently is unheard of with any GPS based approach.

The beauty with runways with only an RNAV approach and no ILS is the fact that there is probably no RVR serving that end of the runway. Meaning you can shoot the approach regardless if the RVR on the other end (with the ILS) is 1600 or 1200.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 30):
the cost of installing GPS in an older A320, with the older FMS costs more than the airframe is worth!

That's only because a 20+ year old A320 isn't worth much to begin with. Besides, I'm sure AC has the cash to do it, what with all the record profits and all.

As I said above, there are more runways with LPVs than ILS's in the US, and most likely Canada as well. Time to step into 2015.

[Edited 2015-11-27 18:18:28]
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longhauler
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:13 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 31):

First Air has been flying the RNAV GNSS rwy 25 for years, and that's with their old B732s and B734s.

That's not what their manual says .... at least not for all of them. And remember, the only difference between a non-GPS A320 doing a managed/managed NDB approach and a GPS LNAV is minima. On runway 25 in YOW it is 447 AAE for the former, 387 AAE for the latter. Not much.

And I would be curious about what the minima for a hand flown (First Air B732) GPS approach would be, vice an autopilot coupled managed/managed NDB approach on an A320!

AAL MD80s, older B757s ex US A320/A319s. UAL older A320/A319s older B737s. Or maybe they all avoid YOW for a reason!
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flyinggoat
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:31 pm

I'm not sure if you are asking about just the 200 series A320s, but the A320-100 did not have wingtip fences. I believe LH had a few of these, but perhaps I'm thinking of AF.
 
WIederling
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:44 pm

Quoting flyinggoat (Reply 33):
A320-100

21 -100 frames were manufactured.
16 in '88 and 5 in '89 delivered.
went to Air France, Air Inter and British Airways
( scooped from WP:DE:A320 )

[Edited 2015-11-29 08:48:29]
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Max Q
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:13 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 29):
WS has been flying curved RNP approaches for years (saving tons of fuel doing so, as they are pretty much at idle thrust from TOD til touchdown,

Better not be, no problem with being at idle from top of descent till 1000 feet, 500 in VMC minimum but you better have the power up and be spooled below that altitude.


I hope you understand that flying a transport jet with idle power all the way to landing is extremely hazardous ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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zeke
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:45 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 35):
I hope you understand that flying a transport jet with idle power all the way to landing is extremely hazardous ?

Only for the first approach   
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CPH-R
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:04 am

Quoting flyinggoat (Reply 33):
I'm not sure if you are asking about just the 200 series A320s, but the A320-100 did not have wingtip fences.

Which threw me a curveball some years ago on a BA flight CPH-LHR, as the cockpit door was open and clearly showing an Airbus cockpit - but the wingfence was missing. Took me a moment or two to realise that it was the elusive -100 series operating the flight  
 
StTim
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:34 pm

I would not have thought that weight was the only factor to change from CRT to LCD for displays. I would have thought that there would be significant power savings, less heat input and more reliability.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:45 pm

Quoting CPH-R" class="quote" target="_blank">CPH-R (Reply 37):
Which threw me a curveball some years ago on a BA flight CPH-LHR, as the cockpit door was open and clearly showing an Airbus cockpit - but the wingfence was missing. Took me a moment or two to realise that it was the elusive -100 series operating the flight

I had a similar experience in AMS back in 2005. I even made a post on a.net about it because I wanted to ask people on a.net about what I was seeing.

https://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ral_aviation/print.main?id=2384691
 
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:47 pm

Quoting StTim (Reply 38):
I would not have thought that weight was the only factor to change from CRT to LCD for displays. I would have thought that there would be significant power savings, less heat input and more reliability.

Well it isn't the only reason I can tell you. From real world experience on both CRT and LCD equipped A320s, the CRTs are very hard to read in direct sunlight.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:29 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 40):
Quoting StTim (Reply 38):
I would not have thought that weight was the only factor to change from CRT to LCD for displays. I would have thought that there would be significant power savings, less heat input and more reliability.

Well it isn't the only reason I can tell you. From real world experience on both CRT and LCD equipped A320s, the CRTs are very hard to read in direct sunlight.

I was going to say that the advantage of the LCDs is that we can actually see what is displayed. 
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:06 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 41):

I was going to say that the advantage of the LCDs is that we can actually see what is displayed

But there's actually an advantage flying the CRT equipped A320s as well. They are more comfortable working in during winter as the CRT help heating the cockpit. The newer A320s can be very cold around the feet sometimes  
 
Max Q
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:27 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 36):
Only for the first approach

Agreed  
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2960
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:40 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 35):

I hope you understand that flying a transport jet with idle power all the way to landing is extremely hazardous ?

Of course I do. I was trying to prove a point. Hence why i used the words "pretty much" at idle.

TOD to 1000ft at idle, is pretty much at idle all the way down.

Quoting zeke (Reply 36):
Only for the first approach   

You mean for the last approach ! You might get lucky on the first one and come out unscathed !

[Edited 2015-12-01 07:45:19]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:17 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 24):
Sharklets. Only newer A320s will receive them.

Above MSN 1500 or so they are retrofittable, but you have to saw the wingtips off, so it's not trivial.

Quoting afterburner (Reply 21):
How much money airlines save per year with this weight savings? Skinnier pilots can save more weight

Well, if you have to replace them anyway (CRTs tend to burn out), you might as well save the 10kg. And LCD displays don't wear out as fast as CRTs so less maintenance, too.

10kg is not a lot. But if you can save 10kg in 10 places, you just saved 100kg. That's a whole passenger.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
KingAir200
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:17 pm

Other than AC, are does anyone know if there are 320s floating around out there at major carriers that are not GPS equipped?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:08 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
Quoting afterburner (Reply 21):
How much money airlines save per year with this weight savings? Skinnier pilots can save more weight

Well, if you have to replace them anyway (CRTs tend to burn out), you might as well save the 10kg. And LCD displays don't wear out as fast as CRTs so less maintenance, too.

10kg is not a lot. But if you can save 10kg in 10 places, you just saved 100kg. That's a whole passenger.

There's also the decreased heat generation, requiring less cooling of the avionics. Not much there either but every bit counts.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:32 am

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 46):

Other than AC, are does anyone know if there are 320s floating around out there at major carriers that are not GPS equipped?

UA, DL and the old US A320s. Basically any airline with 20+ year old A320s might not have GPS on board.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
Above MSN 1500 or so they are retrofittable,

It's MSN 1200 and up. Check reply 29, at the bottom.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
KingAir200
Posts: 668
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RE: Differences Between 1989 A320 And 2015 A320

Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:51 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 48):
UA, DL and the old US A320s. Basically any airline with 20+ year old A320s might not have GPS on board.


All DL 320s are GPS equipped. None were delivered with GPS, but it was installed fleet wide by NW shortly before the merger.

[Edited 2015-12-01 19:54:15]

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