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IPFreely
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Cancellation Reason?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:20 am

DL 4767 from JNU-SEA was cancelled this morning. Does anyone know why? Weather at the departure time as VFR with 7-8 miles of visibility and every other flight operated as scheduled. The same was true for the previous evening when the inbound flight was cancelled.
 
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Moose135
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:26 am

No idea, but if the inbound flight cancelled the night before, there may not have been an aircraft to fly the return flight the next morning.
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IPFreely
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:42 am

Actually the plane was there this morning. They just did not operate the flight. Tonight's inbound flight is cancelled but since there is already a plane sitting in JNU, that should not affect Friday's flight.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:44 am

Wasn't there a post weeks ago about needing specific visibility for takeoff due to a visual climb?
 
32andBelow
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:26 am

What was the ceiling? DL/OO needs something that is like absolutely ridiculous to operate into JNU. Or it could just be a mechanical.

[Edited 2015-11-12 23:33:35]
 
L-188
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:04 am

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 4):
What was the ceiling? DL/OO needs something that is like absolutely ridiculous to operate into JNU. Or it could just be a mechanical.

Alaska has some company specific approaches that get lower.

JNU isn't ridiculously high when you realize the terrain it sits in.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
IPFreely
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:22 am

Had visibility of 7 miles and 3300' ceilings at departure time on Thursday -- cancelled.
Had visibility of 4 miles and 2500' ceilings at departure time on Friday -- cancelled.

Weather delay makes little sense -- Alaska and private planes all operated flights.

Weather cancellations makes no sense -- there were VFR conditions later on both days.

Something very strange going on with this flight -- it has cancelled 3 of the past 5 days and had a similar stretch about 3 weeks ago.
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:36 pm

According to the forum a couple weeks ago, the ceiling has to be high enough that the top of the surrounding hills/ mountains are visible for OO, the Delta connection operator, to takeoff. Those are the Op Specs that were approved for OO when they added JNU to those certificate.

AS has proprietary GPS approaches and departures that allow them to precisely fly through the Gastineau Channel with lower visibility and clouds. Alaska paid for those approaches to provide more consistent service, and proved to the FAA the reliability of their equipment on those approaches.

Non commercial aircraft can take off any time that the airport has at least a 1000 foot ceiling and 3 miles of visibility because those are the FAA minimums.
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DiamondFlyer
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:23 pm

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 7):
Non commercial aircraft can take off any time that the airport has at least a 1000 foot ceiling and 3 miles of visibility because those are the FAA minimums.

Only if they are departing runway 8. Departing runway 26 is standard takeoff minimums.

-DiamondFlyer
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IPFreely
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 7):

According to the forum a couple weeks ago, the ceiling has to be high enough that the top of the surrounding hills/ mountains are visible for OO,

If they didin't have that at takeoff time the last two days, they certainly had it a few hours later. Maybe just not enough passengers and it was more profitable to cancel the inbound and outbound for a day or two to fill the plane?
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:33 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 9):
Maybe just not enough passengers and it was more profitable to cancel the inbound and outbound for a day or two to fill the plane?

OO wouldn't cancel for light passenger loads. Their contract with DL has performance provisions in it and the completion factor on the flight counts for way more than operating a flight with light loads. Even DL itself won't cancel a flight just because it has light loads. No airline cancels simply for light passenger loads.
 
IPFreely
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:17 am

There is more to this than weather.

DL cancelled again yesterday, the 4th cancellation in 7 days. If the ceiling was too low at departure time the flight could have been delayed. Conditions were VFR with 11,000 foot ceilings a few hours later.

Mechanical? Four times in seven days? Seven times in the past four weeks? The odds are massively against that.
 
Alias1024
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:37 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 4):
What was the ceiling?

4,000 is the minimum ceiling.

The crew visually flies down Gastineau a Channel to an altitude of 3,500 before beginning the right turn to Coghlan Island. This is sufficient altitude to clear the terrain in the turn and 4,000 minimum gives a little buffer to ensure they will maintain visual with the terrain while flying down the channel.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
IPFreely
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:33 pm

Cancelled again today despite VFR conditions at time of departure. Alaska departed on schedule at almost the same time. There is a more to this story.
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:43 pm

The wind today has been favoring runway 8 and has exceeded the 10 kts tailwind restriction on the CRJ for runway 26 for much of the morning. If Skywest cannot depart runway 8 due to the terrain then this is why the flight was cancelled. Pilot and dispatcher refusals can also play a part as well. Some pilots and dispatchers may refuse to use runway 8 which can also cause cancellations. Not sure if Skywest has a blanket restriction on runway 8 or if its just has restrictive minimums. Someone for Skywest would have to comment on that. There is no conspiracy going on here. Alaska has an RNP departure and a much more powerful aircraft which has better climb performance.
 
Passedv1
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:34 am

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 8):



Quoting web500sjc (Reply 7):
Non commercial aircraft can take off any time that the airport has at least a 1000 foot ceiling and 3 miles of visibility because those are the FAA minimums.

Only if they are departing runway 8. Departing runway 26 is standard takeoff minimums.

-DiamondFlyer


Take-off minimums do not apply to non-commercial aircraft...they do not have to comply with any DP's either.
 
IPFreely
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:35 pm

Operated today, albeit 2 1/2 hours late. Barring light plane service to remote islands or unimproved airstrips, Delta might be providing the worst performing regularly schedule jet service in the US on this route.
 
IPFreely
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:54 am

Cancelled again today despite VFR conditions all morning.

I'm not normally a big fan of government regulation. But with service this poor, Delta should be required to put a disclaimer on their and other websites that sell these tickets warning that this flight is not reliable and passengers who actually need to complete their trip should book a different airline.
 
DualQual
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:18 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 13):

If you've read anything the answer is there. OO has a higher ceiling requirement than AS. Just because it's basic VFR doesn't mean the ceiling is high enough for them to operate. Another poster mentioned needing 4000'. The two specific ceilings you noted were less than that.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
IPFreely
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:05 am

So DL took over this route from OO a couple of weeks ago. Are they doing better? At actually operating the flight, yes, definitely. At operating the flight on time? Well, it has arrived late 9 of the past 12 days. And the 9 late flights have been late by an average of 101 minutes. Including 381 minutes late today -- that's right, over six hours.

So if your travel plans take you to or from JNU, book on DL at your own risk.
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:10 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 19):

I think we get that DL doesn't have a comparable Alaskan operation to AS.

For DL, JNU is an outstation, the flight out is predicated on the crew and airplane flying in first. AS runs a mini hub, they have the experience and the resources to operate flights at a challenging airport because they fly more flights through the hub and can afford to pay for special approaches and departures. If delta is able to make enough revenue in JNU that they feel more reliable connections are warranted, they will pay for their own approaches. Until then, DL will have to deal with the restrictions of flying to a difficult airport.
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IPFreely
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:15 am

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 20):
Until then, DL will have to deal with the restrictions of flying to a difficult airport.


Unfortunately it's passengers who have to deal with this. When they book flights they will see DL and AS flights listed as if they're identical. If they do not frequently travel to and from JNU they likely have no way to know that the DL flights usually operate 1 1/2 hours and sometimes 6 hours late.
 
CplKlinger
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:01 pm

If you have such a big problem with this, why don't you call the DOT/FAA/Alaskan Transit folks? You've been complaining about 1 (one) flight that Delta/Skywest has in a day out of thousands/day for over a month. If it's that big a deal, go raise a stink with people who can do something about it.
 
IPFreely
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:29 am

Looks like Delta changed the JNU-SEA flight number from 4767 to 2418. Slick move -- it keeps people from looking up operational data on flight 4767 when booking tickets. But 2418 is not going better. Five hours late to start this week and cancelled today. Marginally better than DL Connection at best. Hopefully JNU will be able to get rid of DL completely sometime this year.
 
xdlx
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:52 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 23):

DL may give AS a run for their money in SEA. But they will not win the hearts of the clients with this performance.
The consumer confidence on the "native" operator... built over years of service to the community.

DL will need to emulate AS opsspec if they want to compete in this area of the world.
 
Alias1024
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:31 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 23):

Looks like Delta changed the JNU-SEA flight number from 4767 to 2418. Slick move -- it keeps people from looking up operational data on flight 4767 when booking tickets

They changed it because Delta, just like American, United, and even Alaska have specific ranges of flight numbers for mainline and each regional partner. There's no conspiracy to hide anything from JNU travelers. All of the other majors would have changed the flight number as well to reflect the change in operating carrier.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
IPFreely
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:28 pm

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 25):

They changed it because Delta, just like American, United, and even Alaska have specific ranges of flight numbers for mainline and each regional partner.

That's true. Delta changed the flight number when they switched from connection to mainline. Then, a couple of weeks ago, they changed it again. Same scheduled departure time, same mainline operation, just a new number. As if a new number makes the operational results of the old number go away.

Five hours late earlier this week, cancelled yesterday, over three hours late and waiting so far today....it won't be long before the flight number changes again!
 
IPFreely
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:11 am

What a weekend in JNU for Delta's lone outbound flight:

Friday - cancelled
Saturday - 2:41 late
Sunday - does not operate
Monday - 0:08 late  
Tuesday - 1:36 late

Skywest was performing better than this. DL has only themselves to blame when travellers reject service like this.
 
mmo
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:20 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 27):

What a weekend in JNU for Delta's lone outbound flight:

Friday - cancelled
Saturday - 2:41 late
Sunday - does not operate
Monday - 0:08 late  
Tuesday - 1:36 late

Skywest was performing better than this. DL has only themselves to blame when travellers reject service like this.

How long are you going to beat a dead horse? I think it's safe to say, everyone gets your disdain for DL. Every airline has flights that are habitually late. So, just what is your point??
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
IPFreely
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:59 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 26):
Five hours late earlier this week, cancelled yesterday, over three hours late and waiting so far today....it won't be long before the flight number changes again!

Kudos to me.

Flight 2418, operating JNU-SEA 5 days a week, will end on 11 Feb.

It will be replaced the following day by flight 180, operating JNU-SEA, but down to 3 days a week.

Evidently Delta's subterfuge with the flight numbers is not working and travelers are rejecting this poor service in droves.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Cancellation Reason?

Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:10 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 29):
Evidently Delta's subterfuge with the flight numbers is not working and travelers are rejecting this poor service in droves.

The positive is, your never ending trolling of this forum about a destination that 99% of the posters don't care about will end.

-DiamondFlyer
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