Is an illegal call code for trying to reach a pilot during their mandatory rest period?

That came up on one of my recent AA flights when we took a three-hour delay, successively explained by the gate agent as due to the co-pilot not having checked in, then the co-pilot not answering his phone and finally the co-pilot being in a hotel 45 minutes away from the airport.

When boarding was completed, the captain came on the PA and blamed the delay on the company breaching FAA regulations and making an illegal call to a co-pilot that wasn't even in his room or expecting a call at the time.

Under 117 a pilot must be given an uninterrupted 8 HR sleep opportunity. If scheduling calls during the sleep opportunity then it resets the 8hr clock.

For a rest period to be a rest period, a pilot must be under no obligation to answer any phone calls from the company. Otherwise it is not a rest period.

Sounds possibly a little unprofessional to announce to the cabin that the company breached regulations, even if completely in the right. Is that a harsh thing to say?

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2): Sounds possibly a little unprofessional to announce to the cabin that the company breached regulations, even if completely in the right. Is that a harsh thing to say?

To be fair, it is also unprofessional for the gate agent to blame it on the FO, even if the FO was in the wrong. The captain may have felt the need to defend his FO, if the FO was unfairly blamed for the delay. Either way, unprofessional handling of the situation all around imo.

Passengers don't need to hear the internal politics.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2): Sounds possibly a little unprofessional to announce to the cabin that the company breached regulations, even if completely in the right. Is that a harsh thing to say?

Are they in contract negotiations? If so this may just be another childlike union pilot trying to get a dig in at management.

Quoting akiss20 (Reply 3): To be fair, it is also unprofessional for the gate agent to blame it on the FO, even if the FO was in the wrong. T

That's true too.

My question is why didn't they call in a reserve pilot in the scheduled one was no available?

Quoting akiss20 (Reply 3): To be fair, it is also unprofessional for the gate agent to blame it on the FO, even if the FO was in the wrong. The captain may have felt the need to defend his FO, if the FO was unfairly blamed for the delay. Either way, unprofessional handling of the situation all around imo. Passengers don't need to hear the internal politics.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2): Sounds possibly a little unprofessional to announce to the cabin that the company breached regulations, even if completely in the right. Is that a harsh thing to say?

  

Absolutely. I have noticed a large up trend during my travels (across several airlines) at being way too detailed in gate/ aircraft PA announcements. You have to find a delicate balance, you need to give information but you do not want to give out detailed information. It is 100% unprofessional to blame a fellow work group. If it was a crew scheduling error, you tell the passengers that the crew is delayed from an earlier flight. Even if it is a "hostile" crew trying to kill time in order to time out...you do not tell the customers that. You tell them they are delayed from an earlier flight but they are coming. If a mechanic makes a mistake and the repair (delay) is now an hour longer than quoted, you do not tell the passengers that. You tell them that the mechanics are working hard and they are making progress but it will take a little while longer.

I roll my eyes every time I hear this. It is totally embarrassing as an employee. The passengers simply do not need to know the dirty details. Give them a brief idea of what the delay is and that's all they need to know!

Quoting L-188 (Reply 4): Are they in contract negotiations? If so this may just be another childlike union pilot trying to get a dig in at management.

Speaking of childlike, that's a very childlike response on your part.

Re-read the post and you'll deduce that odds are nearly 100% that this was at an outstation because the pilot mentioned was at a hotel 45 minutes from the airport.

At a hub it would have been possible to round up a reserve or someone willing to fly overtime, but if a pilot, let's say, gets food poisoning at an outstation then the company's only hope to get a plane out anytime before another pilot could be flown in from a base, would be to locate someone who is in that outstation on a layover, *and* one who is legal to go on duty. That rules out anyone who just sat down at a restaurant near the hotel and ordered a beer with dinner, it rules out someone who is in the middle of a mandatory rest period, it rules out someone who does not believe they are adequately rested to go fly at that point, and so on.

Add in the fact that, at that outstation layover location, there might only be a small percentage of that company's pilots who fly the particular type of aircraft that a pilot is needed for, then it's entirely possible that even if it's a large airline, that there might only be *one* pilot who could do it. Now what if that pilot is out for a run? Or sightseeing? Or is taking a nap? Or down in the hotel gym?

Just giving you some background information so that you can be more in-the-know on this topic before you interject with a nonsensical response.


I'm on a layover right now, and I'm going out for a jog that I'll transition to a long walk. I'm bringing a little bottle of water, my ipod, and sunglasses. If my company called me desperate to find a pilot and wanted to know if I could report back tonight a fly the jet to where it needs to be, rather than tomorrow morning, well, first they know that I'm not legal to do so for another ~8 hours from now, and second, I'm just not going to be around my phone in the next couple hours. It's that simple.

Quoting Woodreau (Reply 1): If scheduling calls during the sleep opportunity then it resets the 8hr clock.

The call itself is not illegal though. An air carrier can attempt to reach a crewmember during their rest period, but cannot require the crewmember to answer. This is commonly known as the one phone call rule because of an FAA interpretation that a single telephone call does not interrupt a rest period. Of course, the air carrier runs the risk of interrupting the 8 hour sleep opportunity.

Part 117 complicated a lot of things. It used to be that the air carrier released you into rest and that was it. Now there are other protections in place, like 8 hours of continuous sleep opportunity. It is a good thing and an added layer of protection, but it is more complex.

Points about the gate agent's lack of professionalism are well taken, although I admit at the time I thought they handled the delay rather well. Updates were given on a schedule so passengers could step away from the gate without fearing missing up on new information.

When I heard the pilot's update, I assumed he wanted to correct the "record" so to speak. I had never heard anyone refer to an "illegal call" until then though.

Overall, passengers reacted well, some even clapped enthusiastically when the co-pilot showed up. The most frequent comment I overheard was surprise AA had only one crew member they could call on. An understandable question since the delay was at a legacy AA hub, but the aircraft and crew were legacy US, so for all intent and purposes it may have been an outstation to them.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 4): Are they in contract negotiations? If so this may just be another childlike union pilot trying to get a dig in at management.

Or just like a Dispatcher or Mechanic working to rule?????? Don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house.

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 7): This is commonly known as the one phone call rule because of an FAA interpretation that a single telephone call does not interrupt a rest period. Of course, the air carrier runs the risk of interrupting the 8 hour sleep opportunity.

That's true for Part 135 operations, but those don't fall under Part 117 rest rules. Part 121 operations do, and any contact between the company and the crewmember while the crewmember is on rest can constitute an interruption of rest, resetting the clock for another 8 hours.

-Mir

Quoting Mir (Reply 10): That's true for Part 135 operations, but those don't fall under Part 117 rest rules. Part 121 operations do, and any contact between the company and the crewmember while the crewmember is on rest can constitute an interruption of rest, resetting the clock for another 8 hours.

Right it resets the sleep period but not the rest period. It is acceptable under 117 to call a pilot while they are in rest, but you run the risk of interrupting their sleep period which will reset the 8 hours.

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 11): Right it resets the sleep period but not the rest period. It is acceptable under 117 to call a pilot while they are in rest, but you run the risk of interrupting their sleep period which will reset the 8 hours.

What's the additional period? Wouldn't conventional wisdom say the 8 hrs sleep is the 8 hrs prior to reporting for duty?

Quoting thegman (Reply 12): What's the additional period? Wouldn't conventional wisdom say the 8 hrs sleep is the 8 hrs prior to reporting for duty?

Hey gman . . .

The breakdown is like this.

A pilot needs a block of 10 hours between duty periods.

Within that 10 hours, there needs to be an opportunity for 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep.

Let's say a crew finishes their day at 11PM. So, they can't start the next duty period until 9AM. There's the 10 hours.


Now at 3:00AM, the hotel fire alarm system is activated.

Scenario A: The fire alarm stops after a minute, and the pilot is able to fall right back to sleep. It's a judgement call on their part as to whether or not they'd want to reset their 8 hours.

Scenario B: The fire alarm goes for 20 minutes, the hotel has everyone walk outside to the parking lot, and nobody is allowed back inside the hotel until the fire marshal says so, which occurs at, oh, 5:30AM. In this scenario, you can see that it would be likely that a pilot would call their company and inform them that their 8 hours of rest has been interrupted, and that the clock must be reset. 5:30AM begins a new 8 hour sleep period if desired.




As far as conventional wisdom saying that 8 hours of sleep is the 8 hours preceding duty, remember that conventional wisdom does not really fit anything in this discussion. What if the departure time is 9PM? What if the hotel van got stuck in traffic on the way to the 10 hour layover and the drive consumed the first 90 minutes of the 10 hours? etc.

Quoting thegman (Reply 12):

FAR 117 requires 8 hours of sleep opportunity. That means you need 10 hours from hotel checkin to checkout. The extra 2 hours over the 8 hours to sleep allow you to go to your room, change out of your uniform to go eat, then digest your food. Then after waking up you get to shower and get back into your uniform. The only time 8 hours in the hotel will get you 8 hours of sleep opportunity is if you don't eat, shower, and you sleep in your uniform.

Quoting goboeing (Reply 13): As far as conventional wisdom saying that 8 hours of sleep is the 8 hours preceding duty, remember that conventional wisdom does not really fit anything in this discussion. What if the departure time is 9PM? What if the hotel van got stuck in traffic on the way to the 10 hour layover and the drive consumed the first 90 minutes of the 10 hours? etc.

That's not the scenario I was suggesting. So what if in the 10 hrs the crew member slept for the first 8 and was awake for the final two and was called by someone affiliated with their airline, does this constitute a crew rest violation? Provided it was pre-established that the member would be awake in the last two hours?

Err. After re-reading, the point I was trying to get across is:

Under FAR 117 the pilot will only be reset into an 8 hr period, and NOT a full 10 hr period?

This is different than the military regs I operate under. Min period of 12 hrs, any disruption would result in a reset of 12 hrs (to takeoff, not show time).

Quoting thegman (Reply 15): Under FAR 117 the pilot will only be reset into an 8 hr period, and NOT a full 10 hr period?

Sort of. You have to seperate the concept of sleep from rest under 117. The pilot would require a full 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. So they would still need an hour or so at the end of that 8 hours to wake up, shower, put on a uniform, eat, and make it to the airport for a flight.

FAR 117 created a new category called sleep. Think of sleep time like the flight time limits during the duty period. It is part of but separate from rest.