747400sp
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Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:40 pm

Hello


I was wondering, why Boeing, do not put the bright 787 strobes lights, on the 747-8 and 737 MAX? They installed the bright slow wingtips lights on the 747-8 and 737 MAX, and EMB put the bright strobes on E-Jets, so why not the 747-8 or 737 MAX.
 
musapapaya
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:44 pm

Do you mean the LED strobes? If so, 748 has it.
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pilotpip
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:29 am

In my opinion, the strobes on the E-jets are too bright. They're terrible in low visibility. One on each trailing edge was overkill.

LED strobes on newer aircraft, while not appearing as bright, stand out just as well in flight.
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shamrock137
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:54 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
I was wondering, why Boeing, do not put the bright 787 strobes lights, on the 747-8 and 737 MAX?

Both the 748 and 737 MAX have LED wingtip strobes, same as the 787. In my opinion the ones on the 748 are brighter then the 787. However the red beacons on the 787 are extremely bright. They both still have a conventional tail strobe however.

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 2):

In my opinion, the strobes on the E-jets are too bright.

Agreed, they even light up the cabin at night. But the new LEDs on the Ejets are much dimmer then other LED aircraft.
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747400sp
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:08 am

Oh ok, I meant beacon.
 
badgervor
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:00 pm

I know the lifespan of LED's is a lot longer than conventional strobes, but IMO I don't think they catch the eye nearly as much as the traditional strobe lights. Is there any way that LED's can be "sped up" to flash more like a conventional strobe?
 
LU9092
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:58 pm

Quoting badgervor (Reply 5):
I know the lifespan of LED's is a lot longer than conventional strobes, but IMO I don't think they catch the eye nearly as much as the traditional strobe lights. Is there any way that LED's can be "sped up" to flash more like a conventional strobe?

An LED can flash thousands of times per second. The rate chosen for aircraft isn't due to any technical limitation. If you ask me, the LEDs are more noticeable from further away, but I don't have data to back that assertion.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:10 pm

Quoting LU9092 (Reply 6):

An LED can flash thousands of times per second. The rate chosen for aircraft isn't due to any technical limitation. If you ask me, the LEDs are more noticeable from further away, but I don't have data to back that assertion.

I'm sure the manufacturers do. They would have had to have done extensive studies on that very topic.
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shamrock137
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:18 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 4):
Oh ok, I meant beacon.

You're referring to the red beacons? Cheaper to keep the old design. The new 737 and 748 have redesigned wingtips meaning its easy to re certify and integrate the new white LED's. For the tail strobe and red beacons, they would need to re certify with the FAA a new design. The same thing is happening with the A320s receiving sharklets and 737's receiving split scimitars. they are getting new LEG wing strobes, but the other lights remain the same .
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DocLightning
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:24 am

Quoting Shamrock137 (Reply 8):

You're referring to the red beacons? Cheaper to keep the old design. The new 737 and 748 have redesigned wingtips meaning its easy to re certify and integrate the new white LED's. For the tail strobe and red beacons, they would need to re certify with the FAA a new design. The same thing is happening with the A320s receiving sharklets and 737's receiving split scimitars. they are getting new LEG wing strobes, but the other lights remain the same .

What's so difficult about it? If the design is certifiable for the 787, it shouldn't be THAT difficult to modify it for the 744. It's not as if it would involve major structural modifications to the airframe.
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shamrock137
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:49 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
What's so difficult about it?

Theirs nothing difficult about it, I imagine its simply a cost Boeing doesn't want to undertake. Its much more complex the swapping a bulb. I'm not 100% positive but my guess it it simply comes down to why spend the money to fix something that works fine. If the airlines were demanding it I'm sure Boeing would be more then happy to comply.
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rjsampson
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:31 pm

Quoting Shamrock137 (Reply 10):
Theirs nothing difficult about it, I imagine its simply a cost Boeing doesn't want to undertake.

  

Given yesterday's news that Boeing is laying off 8,000 employees (bringing this year's total to effectively cutting 10% of their workforce), I think Shamrock137 hit the nail on the head.

Stated reason: It was a "cost-saving measure."
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YYZatcboy
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:59 am

Quoting Shamrock137 (Reply 8):
but the other lights remain the same

Interesting Trivia that might be relevent... The 737NG now has the option for LED landing lights, which remove the extendable lights and are now housed only in the wing root. (And they also moved to toggle switches for the engine cutoff handles, mounting them on a plate at the base of the throttles, like they will be on the max). All of them are options on new build 737's and I believe standard on the Max.
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shamrock137
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:32 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 12):
Interesting Trivia that might be relevent... The 737NG now has the option for LED landing lights, which remove the extendable lights and are now housed only in the wing root.

I have seen these on some UA planes and they are bright! Not to sure who had the idea for the under fuselage retractable lights on the 73NG's they were always getting cracked, broken from rocks thrown up full of snow and ice, you name it.
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tjwgrr
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:49 pm

Quoting Shamrock137 (Reply 8):
You're referring to the red beacons? Cheaper to keep the old design. The new 737 and 748 have redesigned wingtips meaning its easy to re certify and integrate the new white LED's. For the tail strobe and red beacons, they would need to re certify with the FAA a new design. The same thing is happening with the A320s receiving sharklets and 737's receiving split scimitars. they are getting new LEG wing strobes, but the other lights remain the same .

Meanwhile, Envoy is re-fitting their E145's with LED beacons.
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AA737-823
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:57 pm

Quoting shamrock137 (Reply 13):
I have seen these on some UA planes and they are bright! Not to sure who had the idea for the under fuselage retractable lights on the 73NG's they were always getting cracked, broken from rocks thrown up full of snow and ice, you name it.

Yes, but they were FAR better, and less complex, than the preceding 737 generations, which mounted them in FLAP CANOES of all places! That was a pain. Changing the assembly meant removing the tail cone of the canoe. And you had to have that pesky linkage that repositioned the bulb every time the flaps were lowered a notch!

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 12):
which remove the extendable lights and are now housed only in the wing root

Actually, it also removes the nose gear taxi light, the functionality of which is now included in the wing root LED arrays.
 
shamrock137
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:12 pm

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 14):
Meanwhile, Envoy is re-fitting their E145's with LED beacons.

Right but thats the airline choosing to take on the cost, not the manufacturer which is what the original question and my point referred to. ZW does the same with the tail strobes on the CRJ's and FX had a trial program with replacing the red beacons on the 757's but I don't think it made it to the whole fleet.
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trnswrld
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:35 pm

Its amazing how lighting technology has changed. What I find crazy is back in the day such as aircraft built in the 60s and 70s how complex things that you would think would simple, were really anything but that. Ever see some of the lighting systems on a old DC9? They used to have these "wigwag" wingtip lights that would sort of mimic newer strobes, those things were ridiculous. So many gears and parts, electric motors. I just don't understand that for something such as an airplane that needs to be as light as possible, where did they come up with these designs? lol

I remember there was a period that I don't think lasted all that long where some aircraft were equipped with HID landing lights. Maybe they still have them, but I think that system was also probably a little complex for aircraft use. We had those on our newer Cessna 172s. They were nice, but like in cars they took a little bit to fully warm up and get to the correct color and intensity. Probably pricey to replace as well.
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Why 7478s And 737MAX, Don't Have Bright Strobes

Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:39 am

Page 14 will show the new redesigned Anti-Collision lights Boeing has come up with.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...icles/2012_q4/pdfs/AERO_2012q4.pdf
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