badgervor
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:58 pm

Does Payload Include Container Tare Weight?

Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:00 pm

Was wondering when an airplane is container loaded, is the tare weight of the container figured into the payload weight? For example, if it says an aircraft can carry 110,000lbs payload, does this include the empty container weight?
Thanks,
 
User avatar
CrimsonNL
Posts: 2092
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:34 pm

RE: Does Payload Include Container Tare Weight?

Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:11 pm

It's up to the airline really. I work with +20 airlines and the only ones that used to have the container weight included into the aircraft Dry Operating Weight were IB and VY. They changed this a few years ago. It's now part of the payload, which makes much more sense because not all ULD types weigh the same, so you were dealing with a lot of DOW tables. Pretty much all airlines just include it in the payload.


Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
User avatar
77west
Posts: 939
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

RE: Does Payload Include Container Tare Weight?

Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:35 am

How much does the average can weigh empty, 200kg, 400kg?
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
User avatar
CrimsonNL
Posts: 2092
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:34 pm

RE: Does Payload Include Container Tare Weight?

Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:39 am

Quoting 77west (Reply 2):
How much does the average can weigh empty, 200kg, 400kg?

The average LD3, say an AKE used in anything bigger then a 767 is usually around 85-90kg. An AKH used on Airbus narrow bodies are somewhere between 70-85kg depending on wether they are metal or fiberglass.

Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
QFA380
Posts: 2013
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:38 pm

RE: Does Payload Include Container Tare Weight?

Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:18 am

All the AKE cans I work with weigh 65kg, fitting ~40 bags and up to 1200kg of weight. Pretty impressive. They get beaten around quite a bit. In the scheme of loading the can weight is pretty insignificant. Each one weighs as much as one person or 3 bags. A transpac 77W only needs 8-10 cans typically leaving a lot of room for cargo, the capacity is 44 so you can see why cargo filling that empty space is so important if weight permits.

I cannot see why it would be included in the aircraft weight and we certainly count it as payload. Some airlines will always carry x number of cans to ensure outstations have enough particularly with short turn times where offload/reload would cause delays which may be the only instance it could make sense.
 
Shuttle12T
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:34 pm

RE: Does Payload Include Container Tare Weight?

Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:37 am

ULD Tare weight makes up part of the payload, to include it as the DOW then you would have to be carrying a set number of them on each sector. As has been mentioned above dependant on type they generally weigh around 80kg or so each, so a full fit on an A321 (10 positions) would equal almost a ton, on something like a 77W then your talking about potentially 2 tons. It's not unheard of for people to forget the Tare weight when doing manual load sheets, thankfully all of my airlines that use containers use system generated load sheets so the weight is automatically included.
Don't miss a trip report: https://voyagereport.wordpress.com
 
CXfirst
Posts: 3021
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:13 pm

RE: Does Payload Include Container Tare Weight?

Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:46 pm

Airline I work for has them in the payload. They have a database for their AKE's (rather the two first numbers indicate AKE type, ie fibreglass or metal). These get automatically entered into loadsheets when AKE numbers are put in.

As for other ULD's, freight would send weights, which included both the actual cargo weights and the gross weights including the ULD itself. The gross weights get onto the load sheet.

Didn't actually think anyone would have them as part of the Dry Operating Weight. Especially with all the different combinations of ULD types that are possible.

-CXfirst
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19390
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Does Payload Include Container Tare Weight?

Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:00 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 6):
Didn't actually think anyone would have them as part of the Dry Operating Weight. Especially with all the different combinations of ULD types that are possible.

Can't positions be filled by pallets whose load is secured by a cargo net? So it's not always a container.

[Edited 2016-04-28 07:02:18]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
User avatar
CrimsonNL
Posts: 2092
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:34 pm

RE: Does Payload Include Container Tare Weight?

Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:56 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):

Can't positions be filled by pallets whose load is secured by a cargo net? So it's not always a container.

That's something we encountered from time to time when the crew of IB said the loadsheet was incorrect. They'd say the DOW was off by 45kg when we had a PKC pallet of 35kg loaded instead of an 80kg AKH which they were expecting. I'm really glad they did away with ULD's in the DOW!

Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
badgervor
Topic Author
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:58 pm

RE: Does Payload Include Container Tare Weight?

Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:05 pm

Thanks everyone for the info!
 
113312
Posts: 663
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:09 am

RE: Does Payload Include Container Tare Weight?

Wed May 04, 2016 4:52 pm

Of course, the weight of the containers or pallets plus tie down equipment, are part of the "payload" weight being carried. Depending upon the operator, the means of weighing a completed unit varies. Of course, a large aircraft with lots of containers carries a substantial load that is tare and is not generating revenue. So it's up to the marketing department to figure what the potential revenue load is for their operation and price the tariff accordingly.

An operator could opt to include the tare weight of loading equipment into their Basic Operating Weight for the aircraft, but that would mean that they would have to carry that stuff on every flight regardless of revenue load.

It comes down to terms. An aircraft seller likes to quote the largest "payload" number it can. To do that, they usually subtract the empty weight from the maximum gross takeoff weight. But a practical revenue payload figure must factor the fuel load required for the flight segment, the performance limited gross takeoff weight, and the tare weight of any containers or cargo restraint equipment carried.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SuseJ772 and 24 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos