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A320ajm
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Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Mon May 02, 2016 8:26 pm

Hi all,

Any explanations for this?

Last week my Dad flew on an EasyJet A319. Before the approach into NCL, the pilot announced that the weather was bad and they needed to use a 'more sophisticated landing system'. He then went on to explain that in order to assist him, could all passengers switch their devices off, and that even having them on airplane mode wasn't sufficient. Knowing I'm an avgeek, he asked me about this, and I have never heard of anything like this. My Dad said all the passengers complied with the captain, even going into overhead lockers to turn off devices etc. Could this be a ILS class IIIc approach? I have never heard of the airplane mode not sufficient part...

Cheers!
A320ajm
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AF1624
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Mon May 02, 2016 9:02 pm

I would venture a guess and say that the crew must have grown tired of hearing the buzz buzz buzz (similar to when you put a mobile phone close to a loud speaker) of phones checking-in with local relays on approach; and used the approach itself as an excuse to ask everyone to turn their phones off.
Cheers
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Mon May 02, 2016 10:58 pm

I've never experienced it myself, but have indeed heard stories of crews conducting an autoland asking that all devices be turned off.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Tue May 03, 2016 12:53 am

Lower visibility and autoland requires tighter tolerances. The plane doesn't have optical sensors beyond the pilots so you want to make sure that radio magic works.

I'd venture that airplane mode should be enough, but lots of people don't know how that works (or just go "meh..."). Asking them to turn their devices off might ensure more devices are actually not transmitting.

[Edited 2016-05-02 18:03:24]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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tb727
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Tue May 03, 2016 1:21 am

Quoting A320ajm (Thread starter):
Could this be a ILS class IIIc approach?

Yes. We used to have that as a requirement but they very recently took it out.
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AAR90
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Tue May 03, 2016 3:16 am

Quoting A320ajm (Thread starter):
Could this be a ILS class IIIc approach?

Correct.

For a simplified explanation...
FAA press release on expanded use of Personal Electronic Devices
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mandala499
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Tue May 03, 2016 5:19 am

Quoting A320ajm (Thread starter):
Could this be a ILS class IIIc approach?

The charts that I have on NCL shows ILS Cat 3B...
If it was a Cat 3 approach, I can understand the crew's insistence (or paranoia for some skeptics) in getting PEDs turned off... they don't want to take any chances with unnecessary risks.
Beyond electromagnetic interference, Cat 3B approach has zero visibility requirements and 75ft decision height on that runway. Unlike good weather, even if you're playing on your phone in airplane mode, a quick look at the window can give you adequate time and warning of when the landing is going to take place, and get you prepared. Not so in a Cat 3... If anything happens while you're playing with your phone, you might get stunned and become an obstacle for the first few but crucial seconds of an evacuation...

Mind you, I know someone in this forum would argue that he/she isn't legally obliged to follow the request and that there's nothing the crew or airline can do about it... #ShakesHeadInDisbelief...
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apfpilot
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Tue May 03, 2016 11:58 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 6):
Mind you, I know someone in this forum would argue that he/she isn't legally obliged to follow the request and that there's nothing the crew or airline can do about it... #ShakesHeadInDisbelief...

Hey now, if you are talking about me be nice. I didn't say that you SHOULDN"T or that I WOULDN'T
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A320ajm
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Sat May 07, 2016 4:47 pm

Thanks for all the answers; Always good to learn something new!   

Best Regards,
A320ajm
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
klm672
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Sun May 08, 2016 3:36 am

I also had this request a few months ago on approach with AA in FRA. Very low visibility.

apfpilot- No not you, check out this thread: Can Leaving A Phone Switched On Be Dangerous? (by nema Apr 17 2016 in Tech Ops)

[Edited 2016-05-07 20:36:52]

[Edited 2016-05-07 20:37:09]
 
andz
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:38 pm

Quoting A320ajm (Thread starter):
even going into overhead lockers to turn off devices

That just shows how dumb some people are, why is your device on in the overhead anyway?
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Dalmd88
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:17 am

The whole phone interfering with the avionics thing is way over blown. Honestly, if the phone caused this effect would you want to stick it next to your head? If there is that much electromagnetic energy emitted from these devices we should all be zombies by now.
 
aklrno
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:55 pm

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 11):
The whole phone interfering with the avionics thing is way over blown. Honestly, if the phone caused this effect would you want to stick it next to your head? If there is that much electromagnetic energy emitted from these devices we should all be zombies by now.

A profoundly ignorant comparison. Obviously that phone emits enough energy to be heard by a cell tower that could be a few miles away, yet I am still not dead from using it. The phone, the landing systems, the air to ground voice systems all are sensitive to tiny amounts of energy, way less than it would take to harm you.
 
thaiflyer
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:47 am

I'm sorry but this sounds just a excuse for not having going into discussion with passengers (about turning of phones etc) before landing.
ILS landing does not require any extra sensitive equipment which is normally not used except that the flight crew has to be more alert as a normal landing.
Few good friends of mine are EK pilots and they never turn of their phone in the cockpit.
If a FA ask me to turn of my phone then i will comply off-course otherwise it stays on Flight Mode.
But most of the time my phone is in my overhead bin bag anyway. (in Flight Mode)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:01 am

Quoting thaiflyer (Reply 13):
Few good friends of mine are EK pilots and they never turn of their phone in the cockpit.
If a FA ask me to turn of my phone then i will comply off-course otherwise it stays on Flight Mode.

Well, you and I know what Flight Mode is. Lots of people are rather less clued in about their devices..
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
thaiflyer
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:20 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 14):

Quoting thaiflyer (Reply 13):
Few good friends of mine are EK pilots and they never turn of their phone in the cockpit.
If a FA ask me to turn of my phone then i will comply off-course otherwise it stays on Flight Mode.

Well, you and I know what Flight Mode is. Lots of people are rather less clued in about their devices.

The Flight Mode is a no brainer for me ( mainly just to avoid uncomfortable stares when my phone starts chirping during landimg ) but requesting to switch off completely is in my and my pilot friends opinion bullocks and most of the time they don't even switch their phones to flight mode in the cockpit.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:37 am

Quoting thaiflyer (Reply 15):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 14):

Quoting thaiflyer (Reply 13):
Few good friends of mine are EK pilots and they never turn of their phone in the cockpit.
If a FA ask me to turn of my phone then i will comply off-course otherwise it stays on Flight Mode.

Well, you and I know what Flight Mode is. Lots of people are rather less clued in about their devices.

The Flight Mode is a no brainer for me ( mainly just to avoid uncomfortable stares when my phone starts chirping during landimg ) but requesting to switch off completely is in my and my pilot friends opinion bullocks and most of the time they don't even switch their phones to flight mode in the cockpit.

Yes, all you need is flight mode. However as I said, many people are rather clueless about their phones. Asking said clueless people to switch on flight mode means many of them won't know how and so it won't happen. Pretty much everyone knows how to turn off their phone.

I do switch my phone to flight mode in the cockpit. Does wonders for the battery life. Big grin

[Edited 2016-06-05 18:39:38]

[Edited 2016-06-05 18:41:45]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
aklrno
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:15 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 16):
Pretty much everyone knows how to turn off their phone.

Fewer than you think. A lot of people think that if the screen is off the phone is off.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:28 am

Quoting aklrno (Reply 17):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 16):
Pretty much everyone knows how to turn off their phone.

Fewer than you think. A lot of people think that if the screen is off the phone is off.

Argh! Yes I had forgotten about that.

Sorry, I'll try to be less optimistic about the intelligence of the average self-loading cargo unit (SLCU) in the fugure.. 
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
apfpilot
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:06 pm

I've been told but I have no way of verifying it that another good reason for flight mode is that the battery will drain slower because the cellular radio won't be attempting to connect.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:29 am

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 19):

I've been told but I have no way of verifying it that another good reason for flight mode is that the battery will drain slower because the cellular radio won't be attempting to connect.

Definitely. If your phone finds no tower it will keep increasing the radio power until it either finds one or gets to max power. This used more battery than just sitting there connected to a tower.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
apfpilot
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:57 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 20):

Definitely. If your phone finds no tower it will keep increasing the radio power until it either finds one or gets to max power. This used more battery than just sitting there connected to a tower.

That is exactly what I'd heard. Thanks!
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spudsmac
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:27 pm

I know even within the last two years Spirit pilots will occasionally ask the pax to turn off their devices if doing catiii. Not sure if it's official policy, but even as an airline pilot now if I'm doing catiii, I'd probably ask the pax to turn everything off.

Policy or not, it's safer that way. This is coming from a guy who is normally never worried about interference because I know hoe resilient modern avionics are. There's no downside to minimizing potential interference when you're landing 150 mph totally blind with 100% trust in the electronics. Who knows how many people have dropped their phones and caused damage that might make them emit energy outside of the approved tolerances. Not worth it to jeopardize the pax and crew's lives when there's a simple solution.
 
thaiflyer
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:55 pm

Quoting spudsmac (Reply 22):
I know even within the last two years Spirit pilots will occasionally ask the pax to turn off their devices if doing catiii. Not sure if it's official policy, but even as an airline pilot now if I'm doing catiii, I'd probably ask the pax to turn everything off.

Policy or not, it's safer that way. This is coming from a guy who is normally never worried about interference because I know hoe resilient modern avionics are. There's no downside to minimizing potential interference when you're landing 150 mph totally blind with 100% trust in the electronics. Who knows how many people have dropped their phones and caused damage that might make them emit energy outside of the approved tolerances. Not worth it to jeopardize the pax and crew's lives when there's a simple solution.

Fair point but how many will actually do turn of their telephone completely if requested by the pilot.
Not many i afraid.
Lot of people don't even hear the tannoys (listening to music etc) and many just don't care after putting the phone in flightmode (if you are luckly) or have their phone in their bag.
 
coolian2
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:46 am

Quoting andz (Reply 10):
That just shows how dumb some people are, why is your device on in the overhead anyway?

I threw it in my bag to pass through security with more ease and saw no need to get it back out?
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thaiflyer
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RE: Phones Off For 'more Sophisicated Landing System'

Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:32 pm

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 24):
That just shows how dumb some people are, why is your device on in the overhead anyway?

On many flights i do the same.
when i'm ready to board the plane or inside the plane i put my phone on flight mode and put it in my carry-on.
Why would i keep it on my body if i'm not using it when flying.
It is more dump to keep it in your pocket when you are not using it.

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