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callmedrewy
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Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:25 am

With over a while as my love for the A350 has grown, especially the sleek lines and gracefulness, not to mention the cabin features, I took it upon myself to look at pictures and videos of in-flight experiences. It wasn't until a remarkable thing clicked in my mind as I made comparisons to one small detail...

Coming to the test aircraft and aircraft delivered to Qatar Airways, I notice that there are no fresh air nozzles in the Passenger Service Units on any of the A350 planes delivered.

Why is this such?
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jetmatt777
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:35 am

That would make me very uncomfortable and claustrophobic.

I pretty much always have some sort of direct air hitting my face while flying. If I'm cold I'll reduce it to a very low amount but still have movement.
 
col
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:36 am

A lot of new aircraft do not have individual air nozzles. Air nozzles can sometimes be a real pain!!
 
callmedrewy
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:37 am

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 1):
That would make me very uncomfortable and claustrophobic.

I pretty much always have some sort of direct air hitting my face while flying. If I'm cold I'll reduce it to a very low amount but still have movement.

I know. Just the thought alone makes me feel strange.
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zkncj
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:38 am

NZ 772/77W/789/763 all don't have individual air vents, only there A320 do.
 
werdywerd
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:55 am

I see them here?

http://youtu.be/qDpNJvJPrK8?t=3m10s

About 3 min and 10 Sec
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:49 am

It seems to be a customer option, as personal air vents are clearly visible in both the Airbus demonstrator and on QR's birds:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © JCAM
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Photo © Dn280



SQ and CX however, don't seem to have them:

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Maurits Vink
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Photo © YU Ming

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AngMoh
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:33 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 6):
SQ and CX however, don't seem to have them:

I have never seen vents in any recent SQ aircraft. The 777ER/777W/A333/A380 and now the A359 don't have them.

Anyway, on my A359 flight to AMS they were not needed: the cabin was absolutely freezing. Also, they don't make sense on a large wide body as you can not effectively reach them anyway (especially in the centre block). Also, the configuration will be confusing. For example, for some aircraft the lights on the ceiling are not in the same sequence as the seats. I believe on the 777W the light for the aisle seat at the window block is the one nearest to the window. The centre light is for the window seat and the aisle light is for the centre seat. No matter what you do with vents, it is going to confuse.
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:42 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 6):
It seems to be a customer option, as personal air vents are clearly visible in both the Airbus demonstrator and on QR's birds:

Indeed it is an option. In fact, there is (at least for every type of Commercial Aircraft I've ever worked/been on) a great deal of option variety WRT PSUs & Overhead Bin spacing and hardware.
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DocLightning
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:02 am

BA's 744s don't have them, either. I roasted my way through a LHR-SFO flight.

[Edited 2016-06-12 01:10:12]
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CXfirst
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:04 am

It's a customer option on most new aircraft these days.

We see plenty of 777s, 787s, A330s, A380s and other aircraft where some airlines have them or don't.

Generally, in the newer aircraft with the drop down overhead lockers, the individual nozzles are too high anyway to have any sort of effect.

-CXfirst
 
zippy
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:12 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
UA's 744s don't have them, either. I roasted my way through a LHR-SFO flight.

Sure they do, or whatever bird I flew NRT-SFO had them. I remember as the nozzles were more difficult to reach (more headroom) than on the RyanAir 789 (ugh). The Scoot 789 definitely didn't have them, however.
 
mmo
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:21 am

Quoting callmedrewy (Thread starter):
I notice that there are no fresh air nozzles in the Passenger Service Units on any of the A350 planes delivered.

First of all, they are not "fresh air" nozzles. The nozzles provide cabin air that is recirculated through the gasper system. In older aircraft, the gasper system was standard on the aircraft. However, with the efficiency of ACMs (Air Cycle Machines) increasing and the large amount of bleed air available, it really makes no sense to have the bleed system. Thus both Boeing and Airbus have offered the gasper as optional equipment.

The gasper system provides no additional cooling over what the air con system will provide. The only thing is does provide is a high pressure (relative) stream of air.
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trex8
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:36 am

Quoting zippy (Reply 11):


Sure they do, or whatever bird I flew NRT-SFO had them. I remember as the nozzles were more difficult to reach (more headroom) than on the RyanAir 789 (ugh). The Scoot 789 definitely didn't have them, however.

Ryanair have 789s?
 
trent1000
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:28 am

Air nozzles are damn noisy things! I wish they weren't on the 787 for a quieter cabin. Good riddance to them!
 
wjcandee
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:36 am

There is no such thing as "fresh air nozzles" on any Boeing or Airbus aircraft.

The trend is away from gaspers. Back when ATA's original 757s were purchased by DL, they were easily-identifiable by their lack of gaspers. It was "weird" that they didn't have them.

Nowadays, many airlines don't order them.

The 717 has "all fresh air", no recirc. It actually makes a noticeable difference in the environment. I usually notice how much better I feel after a flight on one, then remember that fact. But YMMV.
 
jetmatt777
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:31 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 15):
There is no such thing as "fresh air nozzles" on any Boeing or Airbus aircraft.

I don't believe anyone meant direct fresh air from outside of the cabin. I took it to mean fresh air as air which can be vented toward you, yes gaspers.
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:44 pm

Quoting mmo (Reply 12):
First of all, they are not "fresh air" nozzles. The nozzles provide cabin air that is recirculated through the gasper system. In older aircraft, the gasper system was standard on the aircraft. However, with the efficiency of ACMs (Air Cycle Machines) increasing and the large amount of bleed air available, it really makes no sense to have the bleed system. Thus both Boeing and Airbus have offered the gasper as optional equipment.

Not true, on most older types at least, MD80, 727, 757. Gasper air is tapped off right after the temp control valve before the cabin main duct and the mixer. Tthere is a check valve that prevents back feeding of the gaspers when the recirc fan is the only source of air movement, ie no pack or no ground conditioned air source. That is why everyone reaches for the gaspers during engine start. The recirc fan is still running, but no 'fresh' source feeding the gaspers or the mix manifold.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:50 pm

Quoting zippy (Reply 11):

Sure they do, or whatever bird I flew NRT-SFO had them. I remember as the nozzles were more difficult to reach (more headroom) than on the RyanAir 789 (ugh). The Scoot 789 definitely didn't have them, however.

BA. My fingers typed UA. I changed my post a few minutes later.
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mmo
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:04 pm

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 17):
Not true, on most older types at least, MD80, 727, 757. Gasper air is tapped off right after the temp control valve before the cabin main duct and the mixer.
Quoting mmo (Reply 12):
In older aircraft, the gasper system was standard on the aircraft.

I think we are saying the same thing. I was speaking of new aircraft not the type you are referring to. That's why I wrote "older".
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113312
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:47 am

Most of the original A300B4 didn't have individual "gasper" outlets either. All air was distributed through the ceiling and sidewall registers. Several people have commented, theorized, where the air comes from in aircraft with individual outlets. That depends upon the aircraft make and model. On some aircraft, that air comes from the coldest portion of the air from the air cycle machine. Others, it's part of the recirculated conditioned cabin air. Some aircraft have a fan to provide, or boost velocity and flow out of these outlets. On some aircraft, the switch is labeled "recirc fan" and on others, "gasper fan". That might provide a clue as to whether or not that air is recirculated. On some aircraft in service, there is no fan to boost the flow of air from these outlets and their flow might be quite weak depending upon the conditioned air source: ground conditioned air, APU, one pack operating or more. Lots of variations out there!
 
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zeke
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:55 am

The problem I have with gasper vents is when the cabin is hot or cold and you are trying to normalise the temperature a lot of passengers close the vents off which increases the time it takes to change the air.
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Polot
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RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:16 pm

I thought it was more common for widebodies to not have gaspers than for them to be installed. One of the issues with them and widebodies is the higher ceiling height, which makes them more difficult to use (unless you have controls at seat, but then that is just something else to break) and requires them to be stronger (re: louder) to be as effective since the air has to travel further to hit you.
 
steve6666
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Re: RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:54 pm

DocLightning wrote:
BA's 744s don't have them, either. I roasted my way through a LHR-SFO flight.[Edited 2016-06-12 01:10:12]


I find BA's cabin/flight deck crew has a habit of setting cabin temperatures at bizarrely high levels, I think in a misguided belief this sends people to sleep. If you moan at the crew, they will turn the temperature down. Unfortunately, we're really bad in (northern) Europe at understanding that cooling is as important as heating. Another reason to choose AA over BA - they have the gaspers, even in the brand new 77Ws and you can sit and freeze in bliss in your seat.
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767333ER
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Re: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:35 am

I was on one of the ex ATA DL 757s a number of years ago which of course didn't have gaspers. I really missed them for that flight. I don't know why anyone would order a 757 or any plane without them.
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DocLightning
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Re: RE: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:00 pm

steve6666 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
BA's 744s don't have them, either. I roasted my way through a LHR-SFO flight.[Edited 2016-06-12 01:10:12]


I find BA's cabin/flight deck crew has a habit of setting cabin temperatures at bizarrely high levels, I think in a misguided belief this sends people to sleep. If you moan at the crew, they will turn the temperature down. Unfortunately, we're really bad in (northern) Europe at understanding that cooling is as important as heating. Another reason to choose AA over BA - they have the gaspers, even in the brand new 77Ws and you can sit and freeze in bliss in your seat.


Which is what I did, but I was on the south side of the plane facing the sun for almost the whole flight. Without a gasper, it just got hot. And the plane was full, so I couldn't move. I'd also discovered that I'd run out of deodorant that morning, so I started to smell. Just tried to keep my arms at my sides so as to avoid stinking too much for my seatmates.

One of the least pleasant flights I've ever had.
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Starlionblue
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Re: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:24 pm

767333ER wrote:
I was on one of the ex ATA DL 757s a number of years ago which of course didn't have gaspers. I really missed them for that flight. I don't know why anyone would order a 757 or any plane without them.


Because it is probably cheaper without them. It is also probably easier to regulate the general temperature of the cabin without them.

Having said that, we have gaspers in the cockpit. ;)
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CCA
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Re: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:31 pm

The gasper system is heavier and maintenance intensive. $$$

A pipe and distribution manifold to every set of seats.

Image

Personally I like the gasper system as it means I have a CHOICE, unfortunately cost has now removed my choice.
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longhauler
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Re: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:40 am

The psychological effect of air movement for the passengers has been known right back to the DC-3 days. It goes a long way to alleviate claustrophobia and nausea.

However, the first airliner I have seen delivered without gaspers was American's DC-10s in 1973 ... so it has been an option for a long time.

Sad to see it is still an option.
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gweilo88
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Re: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:14 pm

Does anyone know any resource such as seatguru that you can find out which aircraft on a given aircraft has air nozzles? I am uncomfortable on a plane without air blowing on me. I always try to make sure a flight I will book will have air nozzles even if the ticket is more expensive. The only fleet I knew for sure had air nozzles was the pmUA fleet which is why I originally became a 1k many years back.
 
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767333ER
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Re: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:54 am

gweilo88 wrote:
Does anyone know any resource such as seatguru that you can find out which aircraft on a given aircraft has air nozzles? I am uncomfortable on a plane without air blowing on me. I always try to make sure a flight I will book will have air nozzles even if the ticket is more expensive. The only fleet I knew for sure had air nozzles was the pmUA fleet which is why I originally became a 1k many years back.


For the most part all the major North American airlines have them installed. If you are not sure though, one of the best ways to look is doing a photo search of the cabin of the aircraft type and airline you are considering. That way you should be to see if a specific airline's planes have them or not. Just be careful because there are rare cases that an airline will have them installed on most of their fleet except for a few aircraft that were possible picked up second hand or something. This happened to me once as I was put on an DL exATA 757 once and if it wasn't for it being a flight on my favourite type, it would have been a near terrible flight.
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AirlineCritic
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Re: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:35 am

CCA wrote:
The gasper system is heavier and maintenance intensive. $$$

A pipe and distribution manifold to every set of seats.

Image

Personally I like the gasper system as it means I have a CHOICE, unfortunately cost has now removed my choice.


Eww, what is that garbage or growth in the pic???
 
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CCA
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Re: Absence Of Fresh Air Nozzles In A350 Cabin. Why?

Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:42 am

It's an old airliners pic from an aircraft parked in the desert, I imagine it's a bird's nest or something?
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