Hi,

Apologies if this is a quite broad question but was just wondering if anyone here might be able to provide any thoughts/opinions on the world of flightsim and the basics of what has been happening in the last 10 years?

My reason for asking is that I was big into flightsimming from around 2000-2010. But then around 2012 I completely fell out of it and now am just beginning to look back into it and obviously things have changed in many ways but others maybe not?

I'm not sure how much more info might help except maybe a few points of where I was in 2012?

1. I had Fsx and Fs2004 mainly running and maybe an old version of Fly! for fun. (and Flight Unlimited 3!).
2. My main websites of choice were Flightsim.com and Avsim.com.
3. I had a few payware addons like Megascenery Northern California (Fs2004), Horizon Photoscenery and Uk2000 for South England and had just bought my first Orbx product for Fsx the Pacific Northwest package.
4. I think XPlane was maybe at version 9 but it was looking pretty nice and for the first time I was thinking maybe seriously of giving it a go.
5. I think I noticed maybe an increase in virtual airline stuff, people were making more and more impressive Youtube videos from flightsim and I also started trying to get into more mission making and basic scenery attempts with things like Flight1's Instant Mission Maker and I think maybe EZScenery from Abacus.

So really any thoughts on how that has evolved would be very welcome. And finally maybe just a more specific question if I reinstall my old Fsx DVD's can it still or does it need to connect to the Microsoft server to unlock with the serial code on the box? And for things like real-world weather (the built-in one) can it still connect to the Microsoft server that it used to like 10 years ago(!)

Anyway sorry that was a bit long but hope not too bad and any thoughts or info from any personal perspectives would be great (and they don't necessarily all have to be positive!).

With many thanks,

Ps762

FS2020 is the go to sim now. Its good, far from great, and has some major flaws. Its a fantastic VFR videogame with great graphics, but as far as a "sim", FSX with a few key addons was a much better simulator.
ATC is god awful, way worse than FSX for real world procedures. if you want ATC for airline ops, you have to go online, VATSIM is active, not sure about IVAO or whatever alternatives were. There are no plans for a EditVoicePack for fs2020 as of yet
stock AI traffic is hot garbage. There are payware alternatives, but with ATC being as bad as it is, its unusable, best left alone til EditVoicePack comes out
Weather is good. Stock live weather is as good as ActiveSky was for fsx, but fs2020 version is under development, so historical real weather is not far away
Stock planes look good but fly absolutely awful.

now for the good,


Payware planes are finally coming out. PMDG just released the 73g and Fenix released the a320. Aerosoft CRJ has been out for a while, so theres finally study level aircraft for alot of variety of flying
Freeware and Payware addons are built right into FS2020, but theres plenty of stuff on avsim. I havent been on flightsim.com in forever, so not sure whats on there
Extensive amount of addon scenery is out there but its really not needed because stock stuff is so damn good.
No more 32 bit BS from 2006. FS2020 runs smoother than FSX on the same hardware and similar graphic settings. Still need a hella powerful rig to really crank it up, but when flying outside of busy areas, my frames are at the 30 top lock, and in busy areas theyre around 15-20, and for anyone whos gotten used to flying in fs2002, fs9 and fsx with their notorious ability to bring any computer down to their knees, lucky to get 10fps on final to a major airport with addon scenery, flying around somewhere like photoreal downtown chicago and approaching ORD at 20-25fps on 7 year old hardware is astonishing.
for reference heres my setup
3.5 i5
asus z97 mobo
gtx960
16gigs
1tb sata SSD dedicated just to the sim
a 1200 dollar build back in 2015, very middle of the road back then but thats all i could afford, and its been running great since and handles fs2020 acceptably

Hi,

Firstly I just wanted to say many thanks for the post, that was indeed pretty much exactly the kind of information I was looking for, the whole kind of pros and cons thing rather than "this is amazing" (not that I'm against amazing though!).

And if possible maybe just a few thoughts that came up in response:

1. Many thanks and I didn't know that about FPS in FS2020 which is really pretty cool. I think 10 years ago I was still using Fs2004 for better Fps with autogen and some Ai and IFR/commercial because of the better frames. But on the other hand Fsx with Uk Photoreal(no autogen) and Uk2000 VFR airfields even with the Aerosoft Diamond Katana was running so good. Only couldn't push it much further than that on my old Windows 7/Vista systems then.

2. Was nice to hear the weather in Fs2020 is still good I always to be honest was pretty happy with even Fsx and Fs9 default weather although I'd often have to install reduced-sized textures for slightly better frames but still looked good and great for the real-time option. Historic weather sounds kind of nice too.

3. Regarding ATC I had heard a review of Fs2020 on maybe Youtube a while ago also which I think mentioned that as well. For me though with Fs9 and Fsx I seemed to just about manage with their Atc. It wasn't realistic by any means but somehow through ignoring some aspects I could get an IFR flight from gate to gate using some charts. But no holds or big Ai traffic or anything like that but then I quite liked the peace and quiet(!) For VFR though I rarely filed a flight plan though or used flight following or anything but I could get around semi-realistically on my own which was good enough for me. And although I never used Edit Voicepack or anything I hope it or something similar does make it working well in Fs2020.

4. Regarding Ai traffic I think I only really could afford a little in Fs9 with frames but had some good fun running a few airlines like Easyjet and more local ones using the freeware ProjectAi and later World of Ai I think. I never really wanted the amounts in payware addons but they looked good and less work. But for me frames were more important and to be honest sometimes at a small VFR airfield just a few static planes around were enough for me.

5. And finally maybe just to try and kinda conclude many thanks again and will keep looking. Also I can confirm that flightsim.com is still I believe running quite well although I don't currently spend much time there on the newer stuff. But for going through the article archives and stuff I still quite enjoy it as well as Avsim and a bit of FlyAwaySimulation.

Anyway sorry that was a little long but many thanks again and I guess I better go for now though. Any more thoughts are of course very welcome but I guess for now will keep looking online and stuff as well. But nice to hear that Fs2020 at least does not need necessarily a super-computer and I heard it might even have a default Robin light aircraft so if that is the case maybe that might definitely be worth me looking into as well.

Anyway with many thanks again,

Ps762

not a problem bud. Im actually flying my first flight in the just released Fenix A320, and a few more things came to mind. Mostly negatives unfortunately

Pause system is horrible. Theres a normal videogame pause (esc), and theres what they call "active pause" both suck, what was wrong with P button the previous eternity

camera controls are god awful. Theres no more S to cycle between inside and outside cameras and use the hat switch on your joystick and your trackIR to look around. Now its End button and Insert button to switch between inside and out, and combinations of their sequences to switch views. They gave us a gorgeous visual experience and made it a giant pain in the ass to enjoy it

I guess i expected a similar control layout from all the other MSFS iterations and got massively disappointed. Maybe Asobo didnt realize how many people still played a 2006 FSX and didnt bother copying the control layouts. Or that even tho FSX is 16 years old, P3D is FSX with a different name and later P3Ds are 64 bit but still same exact FSX. Hell, if people knew that after 20+ years of exact same controls in all of MSFS, they were gonna punk us with this new garbage layout, i bet alot of people wouldve went to Xplane instead of staying loyal to MSFS

Back to at least a few positives.

Fenix a320 is fantastic so far, study level on par with PMDG

i mentioned in another post the realistic runway high speed behavior of planes. Now as you speed up the plane feels like it gets lighter on its feet and wants to move around on the runway, weathervane into crosswind, etc. Its actual work to keep it on the centerline unlike before you didnt have to do anything except rotate at Vr no matter what weather.

Hi again and many thanks again for the info. Nice to hear the honest opinions(!)

Anyway many thanks again and maybe in response again?

1. Sorry to hear about the camera shortcut keys thing. To be honest I think in that arena I was happiest with Fs9 which I thought was super-simple but then Fsx was not that bad either. But for me the virtual cockpit was the most important thing for GA flying especially but also 2d panels (I guess no more in existence) for more complex airliners on the times I went there. And I must admit though some of those default outside viewpoints in Fsx were kinda nice especially for getting maybe screenshots on stuff like wing banking in a turn maybe.

2. Definitely kinda interesting about the pause thing and that if really not possible would be a kinda big downer I could see especially for long or even medium airliner flights. Phones do ring and we do have nature calls and stuff (only sorry for going there). And funnily I saw a post a while ago on a site (here maybe) where a parent was desperate since their kid wanted to do a trans-atlantic thing for 8 hours in one go and would not be able to pause and they couldn't understand why. And I think it wasn't just when using Vatsim and stuff...

3. But again trying to be positive again hopefully that sounds great with the whole feel thing accelerating down the runway. Really cool that they looked into that. One of the things I remember from my very limited GA flights with an instructor in a Katana was just that. The plane just seemed to fly gradually as it got faster (and not really that fast necessarily). It was too exhilarating and I eventually gave up but some cool memories for sure.

And finally just maybe two more specific questions if possible (but not necessary):

1. Is Fenix Simulations a new name for the older PSS/Phoenix Simulations Software or is it a completely different company?

2. Are loads and loads of people now using Fs2Crew? I'm not sure if it's the marketing or really a huge thing being used nowadays but I don't remember it being around too much in 2012 and now there seems to be things for it everywhere(!)

Anyway with many thanks again,

Ps762

I forgot all about PSS, it could very well be, since theyre both british

ive heard about fs2crew, but i dont use it, so i dont know what kind of user base it has. IMO it seems kinda a stretch to get some stranger off the internet to talk to ATC and push buttons for you while you fly. I almost never have time to fly 2 legs back to back where I would be PF one leg and PM the other so i just deal with doing both jobs while flying, and it does get hectic sometimes

r6russian wrote:

I forgot all about PSS, it could very well be, since theyre both british

ive heard about fs2crew, but i dont use it, so i dont know what kind of user base it has. IMO it seems kinda a stretch to get some stranger off the internet to talk to ATC and push buttons for you while you fly. I almost never have time to fly 2 legs back to back where I would be PF one leg and PM the other so i just deal with doing both jobs while flying, and it does get hectic sometimes

Hi again and just to briefly say many thanks again I guess and maybe in response to this?

1. Yes also I have no real idea about Fenix being from PSS I was just kinda guessing but as you say maybe there could be something in it and stuff. And on that I wonder if companies like Level-D are still around I guess I just need to try and search more online again. Probably I'm still guessing lots of Fsx products and Fs9 even are still published but maybe not all have also been ported to XPlane 11 or Fs2020 or work out-of-the-box as it were in Prepar3D or Fsx (Steam) or Flightsimworld but I'm still just kinda guessing mainly.

2. And also regarding Fs2Crew also many thanks for the info I was actually (probably wrongly!) thinking it was more of a single-player AI thing where the computer handles stuff but the whole multiplayer thing does seem to maybe make more sense. But similar to you I guess though I'm not sure I would have gone there. I used to like my independence in the trips I took. Also similarly I would rarely round trip but mainly also because I found it nicer also to virtually arrive at the end at my new destination and stuff? And as you say hanging out with a total stranger in the sim might not have been my thing but then it might have been cool if there were organizations with volunteers to do flying lessons or virtual touring assist flights. But as you say even then I'm not really sure if it would have been for me at the time...

Anyway with many thanks again and hopefully with a bit more time it will start to come together in my mind and stuff a bit more. Note to myself be aware of the pitfalls of dropping out of hobbies for10 years(!)

Anyway with many thanks again,

Ps762

I'd be happy to give a rundown of the prominent developers in flight sim right now.
First, I didn't see it mentioned in here but the successor to FSX is the Lockheed Martin Prepar3D series, the most recent version of which is P3Dv5. If you're comfortable and familiar with FSX, that sim is the easiest transition as it has all the same key commands and functions as FSX, just much better optimized for modern computers. Prepar3D is not going anywhere as developers are still actively working on addons for it.
The other sim is X-Plane 12. I don't know as much about it but my friends enjoy it. Both P3D and XP are more well-established and stable, yet lack the visuals and physics of FS2020.

Now for the prominent aircraft developers:
PMDG: Cream of the crop for FSX and P3D series has now brought two products (DC-6 and B737) to FS2020. They will eventually bring their entire line of products (737NG, 777-2/L/F/W, 747-400/8) to FS2020 as well as add the 737 Max family. Their lines for P3D v4 and v5 are still well-supported and they have stated any aircraft developed in the future will remain on P3D as well as long as it remains economically feasible.
FSLabs: Made probably the best single aircraft addon for P3D, the A320 family, but were beaten to the FS2020 game by Fenix, a new developer. They have announced their A320 family will eventually make it to FS2020, as well as the A330 they're working on.
Captain Sim: Makes the only 767-300 and the best 757 for P3D. They were the first to bring an addon to FS2020, a cheaply-made 777. Their P3D products are of significantly higher quality.
Aerosoft: Made a CRJ, A320 family, and A330-343. Their CRJ has, of course, made it to FS2020 and their A330 is in development. I'm not sure about their A320 family since two developers have beaten them to it.
Blackbox: Made an A330/A340 family that has been in "prologue" for five years. They've said they're working on an A320neo and A330neo for P3D, but no progress has been made in years. The company is still active as they have brought some prop planes to FS2020.
As far as I know, the prominent XP developers such as ToLiss, FlightFactor, etc have been less vocal about plans for FS2020.
I did see you mention Level-D - I haven't seen anything from them since FSX. For the 767, that market leader is Captain Sim.

Let's talk about usability and interface surrounding FS2020:
First, the good news: Addons like FS2Crew, while there is still a spot for them, are much less necessary as the sim simulates a first officer completing some functions. You certainly won't need ActiveSky or any environmental eye-candy addon, as the sim is visually stunning and the weather engine is best in its class by far. Additionally, the flightsim community is all-in on this sim, and if there's an addon you want, chances are someone is working on it.
Now, the frustrations: Both FSX/P3D and XP users find it extremely hard to use. Another poster mentioned the active pause. They unnecessarily complicated many basic functions, pause included, as well as camera controls that lead to frustrating moments where the sim does something entirely different than what you intended. You can't just cycle through camera views to get a good wing view or tower view, you have to use the mouse to explicitly pick a camera angle or use the drone (and its own host of key commands) to get the vantage point you want.
The day a developer (maybe ChasePlane?) releases something that wipes through the FS2020 key commands and gives the user the option to replace them with legacy FSX/P3D or XP commands, I'll switch sims overnight. But right now, it is too frustrating for me to use.

If you have any other questions about specific developers or aspects of the sim, I would be happy to answer.

Hi (again thanks!),

Just to say many thanks for the latest reply here only sorry I haven't done a reply with quote thing but many thanks again lots of just the kind of information I was looking for. So if possible and curious maybe some more responses from here to the new info too:

1. Many thanks for the info about XPlane 12, Prepar3d and the useability/interface issues in Fs2020. Definitely interesting with the pause and camera keys coming up again but in some ways I am not too surprised. I mean if my Microsoft Flight Simulator didn't have some huge issue as part of it's characteristics maybe I wouldn't like it(!)

2. Also many thanks for all the addon aircraft information. Definitely lots of good choices although with Payware aircraft in the days of Fs2004 and early Fsx I was always struggling with framerates and my not-so-great system. But then often simple things like reducing exterior texture bitmap sizes would help and I do like a FMC (although rarely went to PMDG levels).

3. One initial question I guess is how is the state of freeware these days if anyone might know? It might seem like Fs2020 might be great for local bush flying and in that case local freeware airports would definitely be something I might be looking for. Will have to have a look I guess.

4. Another small question I guess (sorry again!) might also be that with all the airliners mentioned are there any outstanding or really popular freeware or payware general aviation aircraft well known for any sim currently also really?

5. And finally also regarding scenery just another quick question maybe. I think in 2012 when I lost touch Orbx was at a stage where it really was in my eyes really quite far ahead or moving that way but is this still the case? Hmm I guess I should try and go to their website again. But on my wishlist I guess then were Orbx, FranceVFR, Pacific Simulations maybe (I think that was the name) and stuff.

But anyway better leave it there for now again I guess but with many thanks again for all the help and information here and stuff it is appreciated(!)

Many thanks again,

Ps762