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sfointern
Topic Author
Posts: 1104
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:19 am

AIRLINE5 Game

Tue Feb 24, 2004 5:45 pm

For you airline nuts (me included), is the AIRLINE 5 game worth the price? (www.airlinesimulation.com) What are its pros and cons?
 
tavve
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:24 pm

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Tue Feb 24, 2004 6:38 pm

I haven't bought it. I was about to but then I read a thread at this forum, can't find the thread right now though, and people didn't seem to be very pleased. Someone wrote that the game was too easy. You could fly the biggest aircrafts between the smallest cities and still make money. I'm still curious myself. Does anyone know more than I do?
 
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airkas1
Posts: 7904
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RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Tue Feb 24, 2004 6:44 pm

Tavve,
Is this the thread you meant?

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1400015/4/

Kas

[Edited 2004-02-24 10:46:30]
 
tavve
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:24 pm

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Tue Feb 24, 2004 6:58 pm

No, it's not. There was a thread where people seemed to be relatively disappointed at the game.

I'm still thinking upon buying it myself but I'm not sure...
 
thaigold
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:22 pm

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:30 pm

This belongs in the Aviation hobby forum where it has been discussed several times.

I have the Airline 5 and find it very easy even on the difficult/real life setting. And no - I'm not a super airline CEO.......
 
KLM777
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:00 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:10 pm

In this thread several people comment Airline5 is too easy:

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_hobby/read.main/45510/4/

I was very interested in airline5 as well, but after reading this I think it'll be too easy. I've subscripted to the online game in the thread mentioned above and see how that will get off, I expect smart opponents there. Maybe I'll join more online games after that, but I'm not going to buy the stand-alone version...

Jeroen
 
SAS-A321
Posts: 348
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:44 pm

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:22 pm

It's okay for the price, and you can update your game until 5.99. But wait for Airline 6 then you can upgrade until version 6.99.
I have tried the Airline Online version and it sucks BIIIIIIIIG TIME!
Rather play AirlineSim, a german simulator.
 
SimpleMinded
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 2:12 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:43 pm

I don't know how the game is, but I am thinking of buying it as well, but for $59.00 AUD, its a little cheaper for me in the US, but it is still expensive.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:47 am

Personally, I'm fascinated with the constant reports of buggy releases. Not only do you have to pay for upgrades - but most of the time the upgrades are simply fixing their own product. Most software I know releases bug fixes for free. *shrug*

I may be a bit biassed, but the players of the game sure aren't.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4275
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:43 am

You don't have to pay for most upgrades, only major one's released once or twice a year. The company releases upgrades about every 1-2 weeks, and yes sometimes they do just fix the problems they created but often they improve the calculations that go into determining your profit, and add options in certain area's to allow you to do more.
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2658
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:56 am

The upgrades are not fixes they are a new version with huge improvements. When there is a problem they put patches out not upgrades. Get the story straight they don't charge you to fix the problem they bend over backwards like they should to fix it. It is well worth the money IMO, it can be very easy however the new edition will have over 108 competitors as opposed to the 6 now.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
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RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:52 pm

"Get the story straight they don't charge you to fix the problem they bend over backwards like they should to fix it. "

Of course, there is always the option of bending over backwards to actually test your software properly so as not to release it with a significant number of critical bugs in the first place.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4275
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:08 pm

InnocuousFox: I think the major point your missing is that aside from the bugs that do happen, they often post pretty elaborate updates, that just about any other software company does not do. So each year i dont have to pay $50 for a new version of the game and wait a full year for it, like MS Flight Simulator.

I'll be the first one to admit that there are a few bugs in some of the updates, but at least there are updates. I can't think of any other game that actually updates there game every 2 weeks or so for FREE. rather than making you wait a long period of time just to buy the new updated version. I am certainly willing to take a few bugs here and there(i have encountered maybe 3 or 4 out of the 6 months i've been playing) to allow for frequent updates to the game
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2658
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Fri Feb 27, 2004 7:44 am

Right cuase they are the only ones that put out software with occasional bugs right? Wrong, but they are the only ones I know of who bend over backwards and update it for you as soon as it is discovered. They aren't a big corporation like M$ so they don't have the manpower to find all the mistakes before giving to us.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:27 am

I find it quite amusing that people are trying to lecture me on how the software development business - specifically the game development business - works or should work. That is definately worth a chuckle. Thanks!  Insane
 
gordonsmall
Posts: 2106
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2001 1:52 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Dave,

Much of the rest of the world, including probably most of the software development industry and specifically the game development industry finds it (or will find it) quite amusing that you honestly believe you're going to get between $400,000 and $700,000 as DEVELOPMENT funding for your airline simulation.

Now let's put it in context, Unreal Tournament which was released way back in 1999 had a TOTAL budget of roughly $2 million, had 16 full-time developers working on it, was ported to Linux in addition to Windows 95/98/NT and sold MILLIONS of copies.

You on the other hand, have a VERY niche product with a VERY limited market - it just isn't going to appeal to the vast majority of people, if you get $500,000 in funding you're going to have to shift 12,500 copies at $40 a pop just to cover the development costs, if you get $700,000 you then need to sell 17,500 copies - and that doesn't include the cost of technical support for all your users, cost of packaging and shipping, the MASSIVE cost of marketing across multiple continents or any of the other commonly forgotten costs - not to mention a profit for both you and the publisher at the end of it all.

And let's not forget that you've got some pretty stiff, ESTABLISHED competition out there who aren't exactly going to welcome you to the marketplace.

I wish you the best of luck at GDConf, and I really do hope that your project shines above the hundreds of other independent publishers who will all be fighting for money from the publishers - by my opinion as someone who DOES know something about the industry is that you're going to have a pretty hard time of it.

Good luck anyway.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:01 am

Thanks Gordon. I will mention your concerns to the major publishers who have already set up meetings with us for GDC. They are quite aware that transportation simulations such as "Railroad Tycoon II" (PopTop/Gathering/TakeTwo) sold millions and spawned the recent release of RRT3. So much for a "very niche product".

Oh... and lately, by industry standards, 16 people is a small team (we are only going to have 6) and $500k is loose change for a development project.

Anyway, back on topic, the bottom line is that unless you have a flawed design from the beginning, you shouldn't have to continually be in a "rolling bug fix" mode.
 
gordonsmall
Posts: 2106
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2001 1:52 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:29 am

Dave,

You seem to be missing a very obvious point.

You keep telling us that your product will be a highly realistic "simulation" - whereas RR Tycoon is a "game".

RRT has nice flashy graphics and is easy to play with no real skill required, your product on the other hand looks more like an accounting package - I seriously doubt that the average game player who bought RRT for a bit of fun is going to really get into a full-blown simulation of the airline industry considering that they will need to be an aviation geek to even begin to understand half of the terminology.

I'm not saying your product isn't going to be good, I for one will defineately be buying it when it's finished - but is your average 14 year old going to be interested in it - I think not.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Sat Feb 28, 2004 4:19 am

"RRT has nice flashy graphics and is easy to play with no real skill required, your product on the other hand looks more like an accounting package "

Oh... you mean the screenshots of what is heavily disclaimered on the top of the page as being "from the demo of the game only! They are only meant to give the user a look into the features of the game and the complexity of the game engine." Dude. It's an MFC interface just so we can test the pax gen routines and the simulation engine... and then show these engine details to the publishers.

It will look a lot different when we produce it fully... not as candy-comdedic as "Airline Tycoon" but it isn't going to look like it was done as an Access/VBA application (like another simulation happens to).
 
freshlove1
Posts: 1245
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:38 pm

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:48 pm

Hello, they don't make an airline monoply game do they??? it seems as if they have 1 for everything else??? If they do let me know.
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2658
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:48 pm

Do you have a website, so I can see screenshots of your game InnocuousFox?
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:56 am

"Do you have a website, so I can see screenshots of your game InnocuousFox?"

In my profile is the link to our company website. You can find it from there. I think people come cruising through my posts here and gripe when they find a direct url. *sigh* Thank YOU for asking, though.
 
yultopei
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:19 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:45 am

I'm a real fan of airline5, I have my own version, and updated each 1-2 weeks, each time free (I don't know if is normal!!!)
for the moment I think, in the market you can't find better airline simulation then airline5. Some of you prefer airlines 2 or the others cheap software creating by a big compagny?

sorry but Efzed doing a beautiful job. I never see better customer services, You have some problem with the software, write e-mail and you have answer max the next day. Anywhere you are in the world.

continue your good work Efzed, I'm waiting airline6 Smile

YULtoPEI

[Edited 2004-03-09 00:52:15]
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Tue Mar 09, 2004 1:21 pm

"Some of you prefer airlines 2 or the others cheap software creating by a big compagny?"

Hell... "Airlines 2" isn't even worth mentioning. What a pathetic work that was!
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5318
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:28 pm

I've been reading these forums for some months, and today I joined.

A couple of months ago, I read through here for some information on Airline 5, and I noticed that people either loved it or hated it. Constantly I saw InnocuousFox making derogatory comments about the game (which is probably due to his involvement in developing a similar game at the moment).

I checked out the web site and became even more confused. The site was amateur, hard to navigate - but the screen shots for the game were really interesting.

What I did was found the e-mail address for EfZed and sent them an e-mail with numerous questions that I wanted answered.

To my surprise, I got a pleasant reply an hour later - and I was satisfied enough to take the plunge. Purchased with my credit card online and I had the game in about 8 working days.

Installed the game, and immediately I was immersed in the game like I've never been immersed before.

There are HEAPS of airports to choose from. I like to go global, so when I had my first hub, I began scheduling flights. Played the game a bit and realised it was very easy to earn money, and the other airlines aren't much competition.

I realised that I needed to set my difficulty to Real World and the AI airlines difficulty to easy - then it became competitive. There's also an advantage if you know aeroplanes very well - as such, I was pretty spot on as to when a new type would be introduced, so I knew when to wait before expanding. For people who don't know planes it'll be much more difficult.

It's SO addictive! Basically every aircraft type that ever went into passenger service from 1947 onwards is included. That means Boeing Stratocruisers, Constellations, Comets, onwards up to the latest jets.

Of course, you do need to play the game properly - I ended up making an airline of once daily flights to heaps of destinations, rather than several flights a day like in the real world. Due to this, I made pots of cash. When you do it properly (begin with a few planes and do several frequencies a day to the same places), it is actually easy to lose.

With the bug fixes, they are free. Since I've had the game (2 months) there's been one fix - a 600k download patch. It fixed one annoying problem and some mathematical stuff in the background. Either way, the game is very stable on my system (WinXP pro, 192mb ram, Pentium III 500mhz). It's crashed twice - and both times it was when I had my e-mail programme, browser, internet connected, ICQ - in the background.

When you run it by itself, it's fine. When you run it with Photo Editor open (I downloaded maps so I knew what cities to fly to in all the continents I am not too familiar with), it works fine.

I bought the latest version and it comes with a free upgrade credit. This means I can upgrade for nothing to version 5.1 when it comes out in April or if I want, I can wait until version 6 in May (and the list of enhancements just has to be seen to believed!!!).

The one I bought is the last version to be shipped with a free upgrade credit, so if you're going to do it, do it now. Note though, that patches (ie: upgrades to fix bugs) are free. You only pay when they upgrade the game and add a heap of new features, which is fine.

So far I am very impressed with the product, and have no issues in recommending this product to other people. I've been computer gaming since 1987, and I know the good games from the bad games. This is one of the good ones.

What makes it even better is that you upgrade to better versions regularly for a nominal price. What is also good is that if you make a suggestion, they take it seriously and you may actually see it in the next version! The price of the game is also reasonable (moreso for people overseas, as the Australian dollar is weaker than the US dollar, and the British pound).

So if anyone is thinking of getting the game, just do it. I ummed and aahhed for a few weeks and I wish I hadn't now, because I could have had that extra time to play the game!!

Cheers,

Trent.
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:00 am

One out of many things I was very impressed with was this. I had purchased the game for about USD60, very expensive. I came with one upgrade credit. They lowered the price about six months later to USD40. I, and all of the other users that purchased it for $60, received two extra upgrade credits, meaning I will have access to AIRLINE6, AIRLINE7, and AIRLINE8.

AAndrew
 
CaboVerde
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2001 1:10 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:17 am

Try AirlineSim.de


The best ever seen, german version only but it is easy.

The AirlineSim is currently under development
http://www.airlinesim.de
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6797
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:39 pm

Actually, you know what is really funny? Innocuous Fox is the competition for Airline 5.

I mean, let's call a spade a spade.

Personally, I wouldn't trust a single word that InnocuousFox has to say about Airline 5.

Of course, he is going to throw every mudsliding comment he can and will talk lots of trash about Airline5 simply b/c he is trying to make them look bad.

Perhaps Innocuous might want to develop a better marketing program with more integrity and less of the sophomoric gossip?

Maybe you can make your program stand on its own two feet instead of attacking the competition. Your shady tactic is enough to warrant me from buying your program.

 
Runway25
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 4:13 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:19 pm

Well after reading the above postings (& other similar posting of this product in the past), I still like "Airline 5" enormously regardless of all the (in my personal case) minor problems it has had. I look forward to the next level of this simulation with great anticipation. However on the odd occasion when I have needed to ask EFZED questions they replied extremely quickly & always with a solution. I can “live” with that.

On the other hand I now look forward to the release of the product "InnocuousFox" is working on. The screenshots look good. I'm sure the feedback to this product by his buyers will be fascinating.

Incidentally "InnocousFox" can you confirm you are still scheduled for a "winter season of 2004-2005" release of "Airline Traffic Manager" & at what price?

In the meantime everyone "Happy & Safe Flying" in both the “sim” & real world.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:38 pm

"Incidentally "InnocousFox" can you confirm you are still scheduled for a "winter season of 2004-2005" release of "Airline Traffic Manager" & at what price?"

Much of that has to do with how things work out with the publishers we are meeting with next week at the Game Developers Conference. Based on how quickly we get things settled and the funding that comes out of it determines when we can get started with the full production. The development timeline from that point would be about 8-11 months. Assuming we get started sometime early this summer (May/June?) that puts us in the range of January to April of next year.

The price would also be something that is determined by the publisher. I would like to think that we are going to be in the $30-$50 range. A lot of it depends on how much they pay us, how many boxes they think they can move at what price, etc. It won't be a budget title (e.g. $19.95) but it won't be a AAA title price of $50+. The money will be made on volume of sales, not grabbing bucks from each buyer.

Thanks for asking in such a polite manner.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:43 pm

@Mirrodie

Christ... rather than readdress your (rather boldfaced) attack... I will just repost this from the "other thread".

***********************

... the specific point being that I am addressing issues that no other airline simulation has touched on before... including the key one of actually mathematically representing passenger preferences and behavior. How Airline Simulation could have gone 5 versions without considering connecting passenger traffic, for example, is a tribute to how badly people want to play airline games.

What happens in Airline Simulation when one single aircraft is 30 minutes late on a run due to a mechanical or weather delay? In the real world, it could be the beginning of a nightmare from a logistical standpoint and an annoyance from the passenger's point of view. In my understanding, Airline Simulation doesn't "passengers" or "minutes" and would, therefore, not be able to provide the player with one of the most common challenges facing an airline on a day to day basis. That is not "wrong" or "bad", just unfortunate.

"Why are you doing your best to make people think Airline 5 is a bad game?"

I'm not. I'm just saying that I don't think it is a complete game. I am also passing on information that I have received from many others that there are continual problems with it both technically and from a flawed design standpoint.

[snip]

Really, I don't care one way or the other if people like the game or not. In fact, it is actually quite helpful to me that there is a proven, rabid community of people interested in running simulated airlines. Given that premise, more power to Efzed. However, since the "wish list" of so many people who play airline games happens to read like my "feature list", that puts me in a comfortable position.

I wish Efzed well. We are going to be competing for slightly different markets - and being on thousands of game store shelves for $40-$50 compared to over the internet for $60-$70 gives me a decided advantage in certain demographics. In the end, I expect that many people will own both (such as those of us who took a fatal dive into the delightful "Airlines 2" from Globalstar!).

***********************
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6797
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:33 am

Actually your post does nothing to address what I wrote.
And it is bold to make a point laced in fact.

What I call to question are your skills in marketing.

Muckraking the competition is hardly an action of intergrity. You are constantly attacking 'Airline 'in other threads.

And, as expected, I am NOT the only person to see that.

But hey, if that is what you must do in order to gain more clients, I guess some need to resort to whatever tactics they need, right?


Best to you both, but at least I can say that efzed is trying to stand on his own two feet without badgering the competition.
 
KLM777
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:00 am

RE: AIRLINE5 Game

Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:32 am

I agree with Mirrodie on most points, but I can imagine that you really aren't very positive about Airline5 because your sim will be better in your opinion (and you know it can be better done to your opinion).

But maybe it's better not to ventilate it that much, or at all, since your objectivity is always questioned. Leave the opinions about airline5 to others, if your criticism is right you will not be the only one who will notice, right??

Kind regards and good luck!

Jeroen

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