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Q: AIRAC's, ILS And Other Changes (FS)

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:27 pm
by Brendan03
Hi all.

I had a thought earlier and I asked a friend who also didn't know but we both thought it was a good question.

With the Real World constantly changing, New Airports and what not, and Flight Simulator being stuck to a static scenery library with very little in the way of updates from Microsoft... I came to wondering.

If an Airport which when FlightSimulator was released, doesn't have an ILS on a certain runway, then later, It's installed and enabled in the real world... Naturally, It's not going to be in Flightsim.

However, If you're using... (We'll use the PMDG 747 as an example) an aircraft and you update the AIRACs for that Aircraft's FMC and you're doing an arrival for that specific runway with the new ILS, Will that AIRAC update enable the ILS on the Aircraft? or do you have to do some sort of update to the Airport on FlightSim side as well?

I'm just curious and I'm wondering if anyone could shed any light on this.

I hope my question isn't worded to confusingly.

Thanks.
Brendan.

RE: Q: AIRAC's, ILS And Other Changes (FS)

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:29 pm
by Fabo
well,

Most sceneries do a good job of rendering these changes, and many developers, freeware or payware, will offer updates throughout the scenery life cycle for significant NAVAID changes.

Enroute is a different animal, not much you can do in there. But as you correctly stated, this is generally upgradeable.

RE: Q: AIRAC's, ILS And Other Changes (FS)

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:44 pm
by Fly2HMO
Quoting Brendan03 (Thread starter):

However, If you're using... (We'll use the PMDG 747 as an example) an aircraft and you update the AIRACs for that Aircraft's FMC and you're doing an arrival for that specific runway with the new ILS, Will that AIRAC update enable the ILS on the Aircraft?

The ILS is always enabled on the aircraft. The AIRAC is just going to put it into the FMS and make it selectable assuming it wasn't there before. That's it. When you tune the ILS frequency in a scenery that has not been updated with that new ILS you wont get a signal. So, no, you won't be able to use it, though you may select it and it will be displayed on the MFD.

You can use AFCAD to update things like ILSs and navaids at airports but there's no such thing as global navaid updates for the base FS scenery unfortunately.

RE: Q: AIRAC's, ILS And Other Changes (FS)

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:26 pm
by Fabo
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 2):
You can use AFCAD

I'd suggest ADE. AFCAD is great and basivally it gave a name to this type of scenery work, nevertheless, it is obsolete nowadays.

RE: Q: AIRAC's, ILS And Other Changes (FS)

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:52 pm
by Fly2HMO
Quoting Fabo (Reply 3):

I'd suggest ADE.

...Which doesn't work with FS9, only FSX   

RE: Q: AIRAC's, ILS And Other Changes (FS)

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:57 am
by CPH-R
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 4):
...Which doesn't work with FS9, only FSX

It works just fine with FS9. I've been using it over AFCAD for ages now.

http://www.airportdesigneditor.co.uk/ade_003.htm

RE: Q: AIRAC's, ILS And Other Changes (FS)

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:17 am
by Brendan03
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 2):
The ILS is always enabled on the aircraft. The AIRAC is just going to put it into the FMS and make it selectable assuming it wasn't there before. That's it. When you tune the ILS frequency in a scenery that has not been updated with that new ILS you wont get a signal. So, no, you won't be able to use it, though you may select it and it will be displayed on the MFD.

You can use AFCAD to update things like ILSs and navaids at airports but there's no such thing as global navaid updates for the base FS scenery unfortunately.

That's what I'd figured but I wasn't sure -- It makes sense for it to behave that way. Much like the Real World operations (Given FlightSim behaves entirely differently to the real world in some situations, It's not unusual, but sometimes you do have to wonder about these things)

I just wondered if modern FMC Software (On FlightSim) may have overcome that by picking up/making the ILS work in the Aircraft even if the ILS isn't enabled at the Airport.



The reason I actually wondered this is because I believe YMML/MEL (I could be wrong) recently got an ILS on Runway 34*, which wasn't/isn't there in FlightSim, but I keep my AIRAC's updated so I was just curious if I was doing a flight into Runway 34 at MEL with an ILS Arrival enabled, If it'd automatically pick up the ILS Frequency and display the ILS stuff on the Primary Flight Display.

Given the information I've been presented with here, I now see that's not the case.

*I'm actually not sure if YMML 34 has an ILS, I just saw the ATIS reporting "Expect Instrument Approach" on the ATIS for it recently.


Anyway, Thanks for your help guys. Much Appreciated.

RE: Q: AIRAC's, ILS And Other Changes (FS)

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:00 am
by Fabo
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 4):
...Which doesn't work with FS9, only FSX   

It does - I should know. I designed couple af data packs with it. For one that is built from scratch and was released, look up LYNK Niksic on avsim. 99% done in ADE - 1% is flatten written by hand.

Quoting Brendan03 (Reply 6):
*I'm actually not sure if YMML 34 has an ILS, I just saw the ATIS reporting "Expect Instrument Approach" on the ATIS for it recently.

Instrument approach does not mean ILS - could be VOR/NDB (DME), possibly RNAV/GPS approach. I'd expect "Expect ILS approach" if ILS was in use.

RE: Q: AIRAC's, ILS And Other Changes (FS)

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:27 pm
by Brendan03
Quoting Fabo (Reply 7):

Instrument approach does not mean ILS - could be VOR/NDB (DME), possibly RNAV/GPS approach. I'd expect "Expect ILS approach" if ILS was in use.

My grasp of terminology isn't that fantastic, I only learned what LAHSO is the otherday!

I do believe YMML34 has VORDME, If that means anything.

RE: Q: AIRAC's, ILS And Other Changes (FS)

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:26 pm
by Fabo
Quoting Brendan03 (Reply 8):
I do believe YMML34 has VORDME, If that means anything.

That is, indeed, a kind of instrument approach.

RE: Q: AIRAC's, ILS And Other Changes (FS)

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:40 pm
by Fly2HMO
Quoting CPH-R (Reply 5):
It works just fine with FS9. I've been using it over AFCAD for ages now.
Quoting Fabo (Reply 7):

It does - I should know. I designed couple af data packs with it. For one that is built from scratch and was released, look up LYNK Niksic on avsim. 99% done in ADE - 1% is flatten written by hand.

I stand duly corrected. I just remembered trying to download it a long time ago when it first came out and it didn't work with FS9 initially, or I'm confusing it with another program.

Quoting Brendan03 (Reply 8):
My grasp of terminology isn't that fantastic, I only learned what LAHSO is the otherday!

I have some homework for you:

1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4icjBYwQthM

2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmikmTy5KkI

3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pzF1uQ_tuo

4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMT7DRSyybI

(watch in that order)

You're welcome

[Edited 2011-09-30 14:54:32]

RE: Q: AIRAC's, ILS And Other Changes (FS)

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:29 am
by Brendan03
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
I have some homework for you:

(watch in that order)

You're welcome

I'll have a look later, Had a quick look just now. The guy is cute enough to keep me watching so I'll definitely go through those later.

Thanks.