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Oversharpened without applying sharpness

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:52 pm
by trevisan26
Hello everyone,

I'm creating this thread here in Aviation Photography (instead of Feedback) because its more about the editing process than my specific images.

I received two oversharpened rejections this week, but didn't add any sharpness. Trying to correct, I duplicated the layer, applied "blur" and adjusted the opacity in low amounts in a few areas. I obviously overdone and received a comprehensive blurry rejection in one and soft on the other.

With the RAW file open in Photoshop Camera RAW, this was the process:

1) In "Details" tab, move sliders of Amount and Details to zero
2) Still in "Details", use a little noise reduction but keeping Luminescence/Color Detail to zero
3) Usual contrast/brightness/color adjustments
4) On Photoshop, resize from roughly 5000px to 1220px wide in four steps using Bicubic (Smooth Gradients)
5) Export as JPEG 100% quality

I just tried resizing only to 1600px and it gets better but some areas still show some jaggies.

That said, anything else that could be applying unintentional sharpness? Any recommended way to reduce sharpness?

Thanks in advance,
Thiago Trevisan

Re: Oversharpened without applying sharpness

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:49 pm
by Miguel1982
Canon cameras (I guess Nikon too, but don't know for sure) apply some amount of sharpening in-camera to the RAW images. It varies from barely appreciable in some models to really disturibing in others (6D). Luckily it is one of the parameters of what Canon calls "Picture Style" so you can configure it there and tone it down or remove it altogether.

Cheers,
Miguel

Re: Oversharpened without applying sharpness

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:46 am
by miamivice
Also Nikon has this feature, called Picture Control, you can manage and adjust it directly from the camera settings menu or from Nikon Captrure NX-D software.

Re: Oversharpened without applying sharpness

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:36 pm
by vikkyvik
Miguel1982 wrote:
Canon cameras (I guess Nikon too, but don't know for sure) apply some amount of sharpening in-camera to the RAW images. It varies from barely appreciable in some models to really disturibing in others (6D). Luckily it is one of the parameters of what Canon calls "Picture Style" so you can configure it there and tone it down or remove it altogether.

Cheers,
Miguel


That sharpening doesn't affect the actual RAW image, though. Meaning it's controllable from whatever software you use to process the RAW.

So since Thiago is bringing these into Photoshop Camera RAW, the Canon picture style settings won't have any effect, to my knowledge. It will all be controlled in Camera RAW.

I don't upload much anymore, but in my view, shots in the DB are noticeably softer than they were a few years ago. I bet a lot of my shots would get oversharpened rejections today.

Re: Oversharpened without applying sharpness

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:24 am
by scbriml
Miguel1982 wrote:
Canon cameras (I guess Nikon too, but don't know for sure) apply some amount of sharpening in-camera to the RAW images.


I can't speak for Canon, but Nikon certainly doesn't apply any in-camera processing to RAW files. Nikon RAW files are exactly what the sensor captured. Any in-camera settings on a Nikon that change the image only affect the jpeg.

Re: Oversharpened without applying sharpness

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:44 pm
by JakTrax
Canon doesn't apply any processing per se, however when RAW files are opened in the native converter they exhibit the settings that were used during capture. So I guess you could say that the RAW conversion software applies the processing, rather than the camera - slide all the sliders to 0/neutral and you have the unprocessed, original RAW.

Karl

Re: Oversharpened without applying sharpness

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:24 am
by trevisan26
Thank you all for the answers, really appreciate it. :smile:

Just to be safe, I checked the settings on Picture Control and Sharpening was set to 3/10, but from last comments and a quick search on internet, RAW files are not affected by these settings.

When I open Camera RAW in “Detail” tab, it automatically applies Amount 40, Radius 1,0, Details 25 and Mask 0, but I always push them to zero. Just out of curiosity, I set sharpness to 10/10 on Picture Control, took a photo and opened the RAW file, Photoshop applied the same amount as above, so probably it only affects if you open on Nikon own editor.

For reference, these were the two pictures rejected by oversharpened:
https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/ai ... ee98f5d506
https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/ai ... 4d4b89a7ff

I’ll have a try in 1600px and use much less of the duplicate layer/blurry/opacity approach.

If someone has any other idea on how to reduce sharpness or proceed in this situation, fell free to chime in.

Cheers,
Thiago Trevisan

Re: Oversharpened without applying sharpness

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:31 am
by dutchspotter1
Both photos seem soft rather than oversharped.

Re: Oversharpened without applying sharpness

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:50 pm
by Miguel1982
Agree, both seem soft to me, no oversharpening to be seen. The MD80 looks heat hazed as well.

Re: Oversharpened without applying sharpness

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:28 pm
by airkas1
They look slightly blurry to me.

Re: Oversharpened without applying sharpness

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:00 pm
by trevisan26
Thanks four your opinions. I’ve not been editing for a.net on last weeks and my monitor don’t display them correctly while navigating on database. I was really far with the edits and blindly assumed the first screener was correct, but in reality it was the exactly opposite.

Both pictures were taken in the middle of lens range, f8 and fast enough shutter speed, so I don’t believe they were affected by blurriness, but of course I may be wrong.

Two versions with sharpness applied. Guess they look better?
https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/ai ... 75f9bcbbe8
https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/ai ... 7d5308cd56

Cheers