vikkyvik
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:01 pm

airkas1 wrote:
Unfortunately the photographer has put us between a rock and a hard place


That's too bad. I don't know why photographers get so upset over a single image on a single website.

However, it might be food for thought to consider whether a photographer with considerably fewer photos would be able to cause this sort of "crisis". That could feed into the "different photogs get different treatment" thing.

(I'm not accusing screeners of anything; and as a website, I understand that A.net would want to keep prolific photogs)
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
dutchspotter1
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:24 pm

airkas1 wrote:
Unfortunately the photographer has put us between a rock and a hard place

Although I don't know any further details, I think that could have been avoided if the photo was immediately rejected upon screening. I can imagine the photographer being upset when told that the photo will be removed after it attracted many views, became PC and promoted on the A.net FB page.
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JakTrax
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:36 pm

I think it's naive at best to think that implicit biases don't come into play here when they most certainly do in every other aspect of life. I'm sure our resident psychologist will chime in if he eyes this thread....

The fact that one photographer is basically holding A.net to ransom is in itself indicative of how some are treated differently (that's an observation, by the way, not a moan); if it were my image would it have been removed by now, in spite of my protests? I think the answer is succinct....

But the above post by dutchspotter1 hits the nail on the head: had it been diligently screened this problem wouldn't have arisen, and I think it's fair to suggest that another, less well-known photographer would have had it rejected.
 
JKPhotos
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:03 am

Double post
Last edited by JKPhotos on Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
JKPhotos
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:11 am

JKPhotos wrote:
JakTrax wrote:

But the above post by dutchspotter1 hits the nail on the head: had it been diligently screened this problem wouldn't have arisen, and I think it's fair to suggest that another, less well-known photographer would have had it rejected.


I do agree with the first as well. But it is there, it was accepted, so unfortunately we cannot change it. So a bit pointless IMO. We all know it shouldn't be there. That's like saying if xy politician wouldn't have been there some stuff wouldn't have happened. Still they are there and doing their stuff.

I can only speak for myself and those 2 other screeners I really know well. But for us it doesn't make a difference who the photographer is and when we screen the shots we don't even look whose they are (okay on some shots it is obvious though). If theres is an issue that justifies a rejection it will be rejected and certainly I won't change my mind when I see the photographers name .I do believe that the majority of screeners do it that way.

But for sure I cannot exclude neither that any favorism isn't happening and yes it would be naive to think it isn't happening at all or never happened. As Karl pointed out this is basically happening everywhere in the world.
Still I can say with a clear conscience that it is not happening systematically in a big way as some suggest here.
It is absolutely not the case that if a certain photographer uploads a shot it will automatically be accepted.

And please don't take it that way to say: "Julien confirms that favorism is happening". No I don't have evidence for this. But can I rule out that anyone might be less strict on his buddies shots? Certainly not. Again that would be naive.
 
dutchspotter1
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:04 pm

JKPhotos wrote:
I do agree with the first as well. But it is there, it was accepted, so unfortunately we cannot change it. So a bit pointless IMO. We all know it shouldn't be there. That's like saying if xy politician wouldn't have been there some stuff wouldn't have happened. Still they are there and doing their stuff.

The point is that accepting such a controversial shot and promoting it (although that would be out of screener's control) will have negative consequences with people getting upset (either the photographer who took the shot or other photographers or in this case both). I don't know if the screener(s) had realized that.
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JakTrax
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:46 pm

Speaking of manipulating the system, I have just noticed that the top photo of the last 30 days is a relatively mundane subject shot in very mediocre light — absolutely nothing special about it at all — however what strikes me as fishy is that it has more than double the number of views of the next most popular. It hands down beats all recent creative stunners and newsworthy images.

Is there a fault or can views really be manipulated to that extent?

Karl
 
solro
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:41 am

Karl,

The photo you are describing is currently 2k views short of No.1 for the last 365 days (which I just noticed is from the same guy) surpassing the rollout of the 777-9 and the first A220 for Delta. If one clicks on that pic will see 0 likes and added in the usual album...This indicates rather limited views from a.net users.

Definetely the most weird thing I ve seen for a while.
 
JKPhotos
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:04 pm

JakTrax wrote:
Speaking of manipulating the system, I have just noticed that the top photo of the last 30 days is a relatively mundane subject shot in very mediocre light — absolutely nothing special about it at all — however what strikes me as fishy is that it has more than double the number of views of the next most popular. It hands down beats all recent creative stunners and newsworthy images.

Is there a fault or can views really be manipulated to that extent?

Karl


Very fishy, yes. Not possible with the usual social media promotions...because then we would have more shots with the same views.

No clue how it can get so far...
 
JakTrax
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:43 pm

The DE shot had 12k views overnight 2nd-3rd Sep! Oddly enough the LH 747 image was nowhere near the top shot of the last 365 days 48 hours ago!

The DE has slowed a bit lately, only getting 5.4k views overnight last night... but having said that the next most popular (DL A220, UA 787-10 and 777-9) have remained pretty steady with only a few extra views over the past few days.

Does this warrant further investigation, just in case there's an issue and the photog isn't actually manipulating views?
 
tys777
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:44 pm

JKPhotos wrote:
JakTrax wrote:
Speaking of manipulating the system, I have just noticed that the top photo of the last 30 days is a relatively mundane subject shot in very mediocre light — absolutely nothing special about it at all — however what strikes me as fishy is that it has more than double the number of views of the next most popular. It hands down beats all recent creative stunners and newsworthy images.

Is there a fault or can views really be manipulated to that extent?

Karl


Very fishy, yes. Not possible with the usual social media promotions...because then we would have more shots with the same views.

No clue how it can get so far...


It's actually not too difficult to code a little script to prop up a view count. If the site handles multiple hits from a single IP as single view it becomes a tad more labor some, but still doable.
 
JakTrax
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:26 pm

But what's the benefit to this? Surely it's cheating? Is it likely out of the photographer's hands or is it more likely a case of deliberate manipulation?
 
JakTrax
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:05 am

Okay, this is getting silly...

The Condor shot now has double the amount of views of anything else from the past 365 days (despite being uploaded much more recently). The same photog's fisheye 747 shot is not far off and there's another, almost identical one working its way up (CZ 77W) that incidentally wasn't anywhere to be seen a couple of days ago — 36.2k views out of nowhere!

There's cheating the system... and there's taking the p*ss!

I had a sneak peek and the person's first uploads were in 2005. There was then a steady and consistent stream of images added up till summer 2016, all of which have very average view counts. Then the uploads stopped abruptly. The next we see is from August 2018, and every image since then has had that astronomical view count. Something isn't adding up.
 
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spompert
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:34 am

What I don`t get is that the shot of D-ABUM gets so many views (80k) compared to other shots of it (couple of hundred). Am I missing something, but it looks like an ordinary shot of this plane.
 
JakTrax
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:51 am

spompert, it gets so many views compared to all other shots, full-stop! Double the amount of the first CS3 for DL, and well over double of the roll-out of the 777-9 and UA's first 787-10. And the plane in question has been around for nearly 10 years! I got it added as a priority when it was first painted and, after all these years, my newsworthy shot is nowhere near 80k!

If someone's not seriously manipulating the figures here I'll eat my hat! Usually this kind of behaviour isn't an issue but on this level it's bound to get attention. It's not exactly discreet either.
 
cpd
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:46 pm

spompert wrote:
What I don`t get is that the shot of D-ABUM gets so many views (80k) compared to other shots of it (couple of hundred). Am I missing something, but it looks like an ordinary shot of this plane.


86.8K views now that I searched for it.

The photographer name seems familiar too, but I can’t quite remember why. Was that a former staff member...
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:07 pm

cpd wrote:
spompert wrote:
What I don`t get is that the shot of D-ABUM gets so many views (80k) compared to other shots of it (couple of hundred). Am I missing something, but it looks like an ordinary shot of this plane.


86.8K views now that I searched for it.

The photographer name seems familiar too, but I can’t quite remember why. Was that a former staff member...


Same. Former screener?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
cpd
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:06 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
cpd wrote:
spompert wrote:
What I don`t get is that the shot of D-ABUM gets so many views (80k) compared to other shots of it (couple of hundred). Am I missing something, but it looks like an ordinary shot of this plane.


86.8K views now that I searched for it.

The photographer name seems familiar too, but I can’t quite remember why. Was that a former staff member...


Same. Former screener?


Head screener actually, according to my Google research (which was only a minute or two). Either someone is playing a very bad game at the expense of that person, or they’ve got some explaining to do on how those images are getting so many more hits than the average.
 
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airkas1
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:03 am

Hongyin was a screener for sure, not sure if he was a HS at some point (but could very well be). I've reached out to him and asked if he knows what's going on.
 
dutchspotter1
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:10 am

JKPhotos wrote:
And as mentioned before the threshold is low - I would say (though I have no evidence for this) often 3-4 votes might be enough. I think there is much more going on there and that the story is different that one might think at first, for example as soon as any shot is positively commented by a certain user it is sure to later have the PC award. There were already discussions about this but with apparenty people also voting to discredit others I am personally totally lost on it.

Is there any chance that someone can check which photographers are voting for the photos that become PC? It is remarkable that on average 700 photographers are uploading photos (according to the photo corner) but that half of the PC's are from just one photographer. Wondering if he has a specific group of photographers who consistently vote for his photos. Not meant as judgement (I will leave that to others) but it would explain a lot.
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airkas1
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:21 am

We can't see who votes for which photo.

dutchspotter1 wrote:
Wondering if he has a specific group of photographers who consistently vote for his photos.

This is a likely possibility, but reasons for doing so may vary.
 
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clickhappy
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:58 pm

What Kas is trying to say is that there are a few losers who constantly vote my photos, to make me look bad. It is ridiculous that so many standard shots of mine make PC. If there was a way to make my shots ineligible I would be all for it. Hopefully Paul can work with the Devs to see who is doing the voting (would be very easy to do).

The same people who do this also leave weak ass comments on my photos and then delete them right away. Fee free to see for yourself, the last one brought to my attention was my shot of TC-LLE.
 
dutchspotter1
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:23 pm

clickhappy wrote:
What Kas is trying to say is that there are a few losers who constantly vote my photos, to make me look bad. It is ridiculous that so many standard shots of mine make PC. If there was a way to make my shots ineligible I would be all for it.

Not sure how getting a PC award would make you look bad, but anyway it would be better to block the voters in question rather than your shots in order to create a level playing field.
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cpd
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:51 am

clickhappy wrote:
What Kas is trying to say is that there are a few losers who constantly vote my photos, to make me look bad. It is ridiculous that so many standard shots of mine make PC. If there was a way to make my shots ineligible I would be all for it. Hopefully Paul can work with the Devs to see who is doing the voting (would be very easy to do).

The same people who do this also leave weak ass comments on my photos and then delete them right away. Fee free to see for yourself, the last one brought to my attention was my shot of TC-LLE.


You know what, I'd just keep a low profile for a while, say nothing and let the storm clear.

Obviously they are going after you for a reason. Maybe you've upset someone with a forum reply somewhere along the line, I don't know. If I were in your position I'd just let keep a low profile for a while.

dutchspotter1 wrote:
Not sure how getting a PC award would make you look bad, but anyway it would be better to block the voters in question rather than your shots in order to create a level playing field.


I would say that is probably going to take development work. Is anything happening or is the site in a BAU phase (business as usual - aka, no more development happening)?
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:41 am

It’s like this website is still debating VHS vs Betamax while the rest of us are debating Netflix, Disney+ or Apple TV+.

The photog in question upthread could just be really good at promoting his work, which is what the entire internet is now based on. The game has changed. Wake up. You’ve set yourself up for people being able to exploit the system to make a mockery of this site.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
solro
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:26 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
It’s like this website is still debating VHS vs Betamax while the rest of us are debating Netflix, Disney+ or Apple TV+.

The photog in question upthread could just be really good at promoting his work, which is what the entire internet is now based on. The game has changed. Wake up. You’ve set yourself up for people being able to exploit the system to make a mockery of this site.


If you have followed the photos in question you would notice sudden jumps in views. For example the 777 is sitting at 36.2k for the last 3-4 days after gaining thousands in a few days. Promotion would have had a more gradual fade-out.
 
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Smoketrails
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:02 pm

How does a boring, bog standard and dull UAL B737 go top with more than 4000 views inside 12 hours?!?!
 
JKPhotos
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Re: Have quality standards changed on here recently?

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:53 pm

Well if a shot gets to the frontpage it will accumulate some views and 4.000 isn't an awful lot in the end.

And sometimes the threshold to the frontpage can be rather low, so if a shot gathers 100-200 views on social media it can quickly get there. Nothing that is paticularly suspicious IMO.

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