jerrychuang
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A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:00 pm

The weather today is really bad. Not surprisingly got rejected for a ton of reasons for this flyover A2A.

I recall a funny thing when I was interviewed by a professional photographic committee for a national association's membership eligibility. The chairman says aerospotting is literally the easiest photographic work. I don't truly agree. But: Per the so-called airliners.net rules and standards, all photojournalists should commit suicide. For all these years browsing A.net, I find meaningless photo dominates.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/482 ... e4c3_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/482 ... 5bf7_o.jpg
 
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airkas1
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:22 pm

Yes, in my experience the majority of professionals would not get a photo accepted here easily. Aviation photography is a different ballgame than what they're used to and I think it does require experience. Nowhere in the rules is says they should commit suicide though (I know this is likely not meant to be taken literally, but wanted have said it anyway).
 
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KPDX
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:54 pm

Nice shots, Jerry! I appreciate it when photographers try for more challenging shots. Just because it doesn't make Airliners.net doesn't mean anything. While there are lots of great photos on this website, there are also tons of boring shots that got on just because of the lack of challenge involved and having a nice camera. Keep it up!
 
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seahawks7757
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:59 pm

jerrychuang wrote:
The weather today is really bad. Not surprisingly got rejected for a ton of reasons for this flyover A2A.

I recall a funny thing when I was interviewed by a professional photographic committee for a national association's membership eligibility. The chairman says aerospotting is literally the easiest photographic work. I don't truly agree. But: Per the so-called airliners.net rules and standards, all photojournalists should commit suicide. For all these years browsing A.net, I find meaningless photo dominates.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/482 ... e4c3_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/482 ... 5bf7_o.jpg



Lovely photos. Especially the coast guard one.
 
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rosecityspotter
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:28 pm

These photos are excellent! Sometimes interesting weather conditions make for the best pics. And the location really adds to the quality of the subject matter.
 
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cpd
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:07 am

jerrychuang wrote:
The weather today is really bad. Not surprisingly got rejected for a ton of reasons for this flyover A2A.

I recall a funny thing when I was interviewed by a professional photographic committee for a national association's membership eligibility. The chairman says aerospotting is literally the easiest photographic work. I don't truly agree. But: Per the so-called airliners.net rules and standards, all photojournalists should commit suicide. For all these years browsing A.net, I find meaningless photo dominates.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/482 ... e4c3_o.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/482 ... 5bf7_o.jpg


I've worked with some of the top photographers in my country. I'm pretty sure that getting the photos in the camera they'll do no problem - they know how to use a camera properly. I think the precise editing would trip them up.

In their normal work, they don't have the time for that precise editing. People want the photos as soon as possible. The images must be as good out of the camera as possible. It's just a different thing, especially managing people - especially important people.
 
JakTrax
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:29 pm

KPDX wrote:
there are also tons of boring shots that got on just because of the lack of challenge involved and having a nice camera.!


Bear in mind that this is only so due to the advent of digital photography and Photoshop. Even 'boring' shots in the days of film and slide required skill and experience.

Karl
 
jupiter2
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:03 pm

JakTrax wrote:
KPDX wrote:
there are also tons of boring shots that got on just because of the lack of challenge involved and having a nice camera.!


Bear in mind that this is only so due to the advent of digital photography and Photoshop. Even 'boring' shots in the days of film and slide required skill and experience.

Karl


Exactly, framing especially was so important, even for the boring shots. A good action shot was something to be treasured. Now, as long as it's within the frame decently and focused, you can make an average photo look pretty good.
 
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cpd
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:23 am

JakTrax wrote:
KPDX wrote:
there are also tons of boring shots that got on just because of the lack of challenge involved and having a nice camera.!


Bear in mind that this is only so due to the advent of digital photography and Photoshop. Even 'boring' shots in the days of film and slide required skill and experience.

Karl


That's where the 'old fashioned' photographers do better, they came from that age. The ones I worked with came from the film era, of the time when the offices at work were hazy inside because people were smoking cigarettes inside the building and the sunlight streaming in through the windows illuminated the smoke. :eek: There were some photos of that from the old days which for me, being a relative youngster was totally impossible to believe.

The digital age does make photography easier and far more convenient. I did do film back in the old days for a time, but never for taking photos of planes.
 
JakTrax
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:34 pm

cpd wrote:
The digital age does make photography easier and far more convenient. I did do film back in the old days for a time, but never for taking photos of planes.


It certainly does make things more convenient and despite my often lamenting the days of film/slide there's no way I'd ever want to go back. But digital has made people lazy and, as the earlier comment re 'boring images' indicates, it's also resulted in a sort of ignorance of what was actually involved in getting even the most basic of shots a couple of decades ago.

When everyone was on old 35mm formats no-one except the the pro's pushed the boundaries as it was just too expensive to reel off roll after roll just experimenting. Much of what we see here at A.net today is the product of digital taking many of the responsibilities away from the photographer, allowing him/her to concentrate more on pushing the envelope. I guess this is a good thing but it needs to be realised by those who never shot film/slide that it was a pretty complex operation and not just a case of point, click and open Photoshop.

These days, to get a decent image, you only need to have the subject reasonably sized in the frame and in focus. You could have an awfully composed, underexposed photograph and a beautifully composed/exposed one but the final edit you see here won't tell you which is which... yet from a photographically technical standpoint they're poles apart!

Karl
 
vikkyvik
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:21 pm

JakTrax wrote:
But digital has made people lazy


So did autofocus.
So did interchangeable lenses.
So did zoom lenses.
So did fancy coatings on lens elements to reduce glare/flare.
So did autoexposure.

etc....

JakTrax wrote:
but it needs to be realised by those who never shot film/slide that it was a pretty complex operation and not just a case of point, click and open Photoshop.


No, it doesn't need to be realized by anyone. Those who have an interest in historical photography methods will figure it out.

That's like saying people who make playlists on their iPods need to realize how I laboriously made mixtapes on cassette. No, they really don't.

JakTrax wrote:
allowing him/her to concentrate more on pushing the envelope. I guess this is a good thing


Of course it's a good thing. That's half the point of advancing technology.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
JakTrax
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:05 pm

I think you're missing the point entirely. The things you mention were simple advancements on existing technology; digital is a different ball game completely. In fact, when AF lenses first came about they were pretty unreliable and many of us opted to continue using MF. As for zoom lenses, they may have made some photographers lazier but, for the majority, they enabled us to get images we otherwise could never have captured in a million years! I don't know if you ever shot film or slide but if not are you really in a position to be pontificating about it? Nothing you listed above really made the task considerably easier. I know because I was there.

Just because you get an image accepted here DOESN'T mean you took a great photo. In fact, it's pretty easy to get a very poorly framed/composed/exposed photo into the A.net database. I guess no one NEEDS to realise but it will help their understanding of the principles of photography if they DO realise. If someone wants to truly understand art and its history, for example, he/she should study the past as well as the present. I'm afraid to say your comparison re mixtapes was a poor one and in no way relative to this discussion.

If you are of the opinion that basic, 'boring' shots (which is now a euphemism for sunny side-ons) are no longer a challenge on digital then you're relying far too heavily on Photoshop. I've said before and I'll say again that there is some sort of elitist opposition to the sunny side-on lately, and so I'm well within my rights as a former (and experienced) slide shooter to tell it like it is. I'll say again that it's ignorant to call out a certain type of shot as 'not challenging' when you've no idea how it was originally captured.

I get the feeling, Vik, that you get some sort of kick out of vehemently disagreeing with everything I post. That is, however, your prerogative.
 
vikkyvik
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:31 pm

JakTrax wrote:
I get the feeling, Vik, that you get some sort of kick out of vehemently disagreeing with everything I post.


Not at all, sorry if you feel that way. I just happen to vehemently disagree with some of it.

JakTrax wrote:
I don't know if you ever shot film or slide but if not are you really in a position to be pontificating about it?


I actually have a film camera that I pull out every now and then for kicks. But I'm also not pontificating about film/slide shooting - I didn't say anything positive or negative about it.

JakTrax wrote:
If someone wants to truly understand art and its history, for example, he/she should study the past as well as the present.


Which is basically what I said:

vikkyvik wrote:
Those who have an interest in historical photography methods will figure it out.


JakTrax wrote:
but it will help their understanding of the principles of photography if they DO realise.


Maybe, maybe not, since the principals of photography seem to have changed so much with digital. Photoshop can also be an art in and of itself.

JakTrax wrote:
If you are of the opinion that basic, 'boring' shots (which is now a euphemism for sunny side-ons) are no longer a challenge on digital then you're relying far too heavily on Photoshop.


Why would you say that? I have no opposition to sunny side-ons whatsoever (most of my external hard drives are filled with them), but I don't personally find them especially challenging, especially compared to some other shots I take.

I don't know about elitist opposition to sunny side-ons. I do see opposition to low-light, low-shutter-speed, high-ISO shots, which in my opinion, are vastly more challenging.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:18 pm

vikkyvik wrote:
I don't know about elitist opposition to sunny side-ons. I do see opposition to low-light, low-shutter-speed, high-ISO shots, which in my opinion, are vastly more challenging.


It’s all relative. IMO aviation photography is relatively easy compared to other fields. Yeah, okay so it was more difficult back in the film/slide days but that also means the other types were just as more difficult.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
JakTrax
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:32 pm

Having done a few different types of photography I wouldn't say aviation is the easiest; however it certainly isn't the most difficult. That said, it depends on individual circumstances. One of the biggest issues with film was being stuck with just a single sensitivity while that particular roll was in your camera. A real pain when the light dropped, unless you planned meticulously.

vikkyvik wrote:
Photoshop can also be an art in and of itself.


Ah, now you're seeing my point. But the art of image editing is not really photography; it's post-capture manipulation. A part of modern photography, yes, but much of what Photoshop does can be done in camera with better technique. This is the area in which I believe people have become lazy. If those people want to rely heavily on Photoshop that's fine by me, of course, but there's so much more they are basically missing out on.

vikkyvik wrote:
I don't personally find them especially challenging, especially compared to some other shots I take.


But do you try to ensure good composition or do you take less care because you know editing will fix a multitude of sins? If I aim to do as little editing as possible I find side-ons pretty challenging — I have to try to get the background exactly level, the aircraft filling the frame and precisely in the middle, plus the white balance and exposure spot on. Surely you can't tell me that you succeed in doing all this perfectly every time you shoot, say, a landing or rotating aircraft? I consider myself pretty good at it and even after 32 years in the game my success ratio is probably only about 30-40% (Photoshop obviously coming to the ultimate rescue 60-70% of the time, meaning I can bin far less than I did when shooting film).

Going back to my original point, let me put my theory another way: if you go through the database here and conclude that all sunny side-ons didn't present a challenge to the photographer then you've either spent too much time looking through A.net-tinted specs or you don't fully understand composition. I agree that, to upload here, you don't NEED to fully understand composition if you're happy using Photoshop to make the necessary corrections, however taking time out to learn about the fundamentals — even if you consider them no longer relevant — should make you a better photographer. Put it this way: knowing is better than not knowing.

I don't know about elitist opposition to sunny side-ons. I do see opposition to low-light, low-shutter-speed, high-ISO shots, which in my opinion, are vastly more challenging.[/quote]

I am not opposed to those low-light images but to me they look heavily manipulated and they certainly don't do the photographer's skill and patience justice. In other words, it seems a lot of effort to me for something that looks flawed. And again, how do I know what the original composition was like? I can't deny that you need to exercise far more care getting those images than the average sunny side-on but that's not to say that different styles don't present their own challenges. This is the essence of my point and you have to realise that branding all side-ons as 'unchallenging' is going to irk those of us who remember just how many frames in those 36 rolls we had to throw away because they didn't make the grade.

I remember when you came here as a newbie, maybe a decade or so ago(?), so I assumed you'd never done film/slide. It's a positive move on your part to give it a go but without sounding patronising it'd be well worth your persevering with it — I think shooting old 35mm formats really makes you realise just how much skill and patience all types of photography actually demand (irrespective of how much you rely on Photoshop). Set yourself the challenges I outlined above with side-ons and see how many come out of the camera exactly (or almost) exactly right. I think you'd be surprised...
 
jovelson
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Re: A photo that is never going to be accepted but a nice one to share

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:09 am

Nice pictures especially the first one.

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