Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 4947
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Sat Dec 07, 2002 3:14 am

I think we need to start addressing the TSA heads in Washington.


bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
DB777
Topic Author
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:16 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Sat Dec 07, 2002 3:54 am

From what I have read on the TSA site, the AAAE site and news articles, the TSA did not mandate closures of public viewing areas.

An Associated Press article from November 29th states that the government warned airports that portable rocket launchers could be used against airliners in the US even though security officials believe the risk is greater overseas. Charlie LeBlanc, managing director of Air Security Int'l Inc., a Houston-based aviation security firm that does government consulting work, stated "we're talking about a weapon that doesn't need to be fired on the aircraft grounds to be effective." According to the article, the SA-7 heat seeking missile that was used in Kenya can be used against low-flying aircraft within a range of 3 miles. Now, why would any terrorist use a public view park next to the airfield when they can be 2 or 3 miles away and achieve their same criminal objective?

The article I have says that the TSA has jurisdiction over airports from the perimeter fences inward, which means they don't have jurisdiction of public view parks outside the fence in my opinion.


Don
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
 
DB777
Topic Author
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:16 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Sun Dec 08, 2002 5:01 am

My previous post regarding the senseless closure at FLL only included the e-mail address for the Chairperson of the Broward County Commission which oversees the Broward County Avation Department that operates FLL. Since the chairperson could be great friends with the airport director (Bill Sherry) for all I know, she could stifle all of our e-mails and calls and no action would be taken. I think it would be better to e-mail ALL the county commissioners since they each have equal responsibilities in governing the county and the airport. The more commissioners we can convince that this was a senseless closure the better our odds of getting the airport director's decision reversed.

The e-mail addresses for the Broward commissioners
are:

[email protected] (Commissioner Ilene Lieberman),
[email protected] (Commissioner Kristin Jacobs),
[email protected] (Commissioner Ben Graber M.D.),
[email protected] (Aide to Commissioner Jim Scott),
[email protected] (Commissioner Sue Gunzberger),
[email protected] (Commissioner John E. Rodstrom Jr.),
[email protected] (Commission Chairperson Diana Wasserman-Rubin),
[email protected] (Commissioner Josephus Eggelletion, Jr.)

You can copy and paste all of the above into one e-mail or send individual e-mails, your choice. We need to keep the pressure on to get the view park reopened before a lot of spotters and photographers arrive here for their winter vacations/holidays.

Thanks for your help everyone!

Don
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
 
venuscat2
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 1:44 am

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Sun Dec 08, 2002 12:39 pm

We had the same type of situation at GRR following the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks. I set up an online petition, and gathered about 85 signatures. I then mailed it to the airport director. About a month later, the viewing area reopened. I would definately recommend setting up a petition for your situation. The web address that I set up my petition at is:
http://www.webpetitions.com

Best regards,
Jordan Dekker
 
DB777
Topic Author
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:16 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:24 pm

Thank you very much for that suggestion, Jordan. I'll check it out. However, the petitions will go to the elected officials (accountable to the public) who oversee the airport director and not the director himself. I'm really trying to restrain myself from badmouthing this guy in a public forum.

Don
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
 
Alaskaairlines
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:00 pm

Don that would be an excellent idea, get a petition site up, sure you would get lots of signatures!

-Dmitry
 
DB777
Topic Author
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:16 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:05 am

Well, I tried by establishing a petition on that site. However, everytime I go to the URL they gave me it says 0 people signed petitions even though I sent in my name, hometown, etc. to complete the first signature on the petition.

The home page's latest petitions are all September or earlier so it looks like the site isn't fully operational anymore.

Don
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:43 am

Don,

Similar letter to that I put up on the MCO topic is on its way to the good folks in BC in respect of FLL, but obviously with the content doctored appropriately. Let us know if you can get a petition running as I'd be happy to sign - I'm planning to be in the MIA/FLL area when Eddy's slide fest is on in January, so any closures are certainly going to hurt me.

Thanks for the effort you're putting in on behalf of the photographer community - hopefully with some effort from all of us we can preserve these excellent facilities for everyone to continue to enjoy.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:48 am

I drove past FLL today on 595, no cars in the viewing area, looks like its still closed...Im coming down again over Christmas and Im really hoping they reverse their decision by then...sigh...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
venuscat2
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 1:44 am

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Tue Dec 10, 2002 11:11 am

Hey again,
I will agree that webpetitions.com is not the best website, but it worked ok for me. Perhaps this site may work a little better:
http://www.petitiononline.com

Jordan
 
planephoto
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 2:09 am

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:13 pm

Don, thanks for posting the email addresses, I have politely included my $.02 to them all as I planned a visit in Jan... We'll see...thanks again. - Scott
[ blog - http://www.scottfillmer.com ] | [ gallery - http://www.auburnimages.com ]
 
DB777
Topic Author
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:16 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:49 pm

Thank you for the new petition website. I established it and would appreciate everyone signing it and telling others about it via aviation groups, slide groups, print groups, spotters groups, etc. etc.

The URL for the new petition is at:

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/petition-sign.cgi?openpark

Thank you.

Don
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
 
planephoto
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2002 2:09 am

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Wed Dec 11, 2002 12:09 am

BTW... this is my 'offical' responce from the Broward people.

"Thank you for contacting Commissioner Rodstrom's office with your comments. I will forward your e-mail to Commissioner Rodstrom for his consideration.

Patricia LaRaia
Commissioner Rodstrom's office
954-357-7007
[email protected]"

-scott
[ blog - http://www.scottfillmer.com ] | [ gallery - http://www.auburnimages.com ]
 
Lindy
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 10:42 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Wed Dec 11, 2002 12:10 am

Hi All,

Today I've got email from Bill Sherry of FLL.

"Dear Mr. Szczypek:
Thank you for your recent email in which you explained your concern about the closing of the viewing area at the Ft. Lauderdale Hollywood International Airport, and thank you for your kind words about out viewing area. As a fellow aviation enthusiast, I too share your concern, but there are very real threats to the aviation industry and I have no alternative but to close the viewing area for security reasons.

It is my hope to reopen the viewing area at some point in the future, when the many threats that we currently face, as a nation, have been eliminated. Until that time, I ask for your patience, understanding and confidence in knowing that this was not a rash decision, but rather a thoughtful decision that was made after discussion with the many law enforcement agencies that serve a major role in the safe operation of the airport.

It is my hope that you will still visit south Florida this winter and enjoy the wide array of actives that we have to offer in Broward County.

Best regards,

William Sherry, A.A.E.
Director of Aviation

CC: Commissioner Diana Wasserman-Rubin"

Well, its like "we are closed right now but we plan to open in the future"

I signed petition and I was shocked to see only 11 signatures before me. I thought that people really care for that area.

Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
DB777
Topic Author
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:16 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:55 am

The correct URL for the petition is at:

http://www.petitiononline.com/openpark/petition.html

The other URL will work in a roundabout way.

Give it time Rafal - there'll be a lot more signatures as the word spreads.

Thanks to the other posters for posting the replies they have received from the county and Bill Sherry. At least by raising hell maybe they won't turn this into a permanent closure as a lot of folks were saying when they first closed the area off.

Don
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
 
Alaskaairlines
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Wed Dec 11, 2002 4:03 am

Here's what I got for a reply from her:

Dear Mr. Kudryn:

Thank you for your e-mail in which you explained your concern about the closing of the viewing area at the Ft. Lauderdale Hollywood International Airport. As a fellow aviation enthusiast, I too share your concern, but there are very real threats to the aviation industry and we have no alternative but to close the viewing area for security reasons.

It is our hope to reopen the viewing area at some point in the future, when the many threats that we currently face as a nation have been eliminated. Until that time, we ask for your patience, understanding and confidence in knowing that this was not a rash decision, but rather a thoughtful decision that was made after discussion with the many law enforcement agencies that serve a major role in the safe operation of the airport.

I hope that I have answered all of your questions. Please contact Mr. William Sherry, Aviation Director, at 954-359-1032, if you have any additional questions or comments.

Best regards,

Diana Wasserman-Rubin
Mayor, Broward County

DWR/pw

-Dmitry
 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Wed Dec 11, 2002 4:16 am

I, too, just received the same e-mail response from the Commissioner.

-Chris
Bonjour Chef!
 
N178UA
Posts: 1701
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 9:56 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:28 am

Sorry about the very late reply of this , I have been South America last 2 weeks and only been awared of the tough ongoing situation after arrived in Miami couple days ago. This evening met Don Boyd and talked about the petition. On behalf of Eddy Gual, Aviation Photography of Miami and myself, I submitted this. Most of the letter express our views.

Broward County has received the following information:
[email protected]

question=
Dear Commissioner,

Osama seems to be winning in FT Lauderdale Intl Airport, winning at disrupting our lives because of [sometimes understandable behaviour of our airport authorities] but mostly to the "paranohia" created by the criminal acts of 9-11, the first thing they did was to close the "photography holes" in the fence across from the area [a unique and world famous feature FT LAUDERDALE INTL had that help every year by drawing countless photo tourists to enhance the local economy and closing the area for three months..]and all it did was to deny photo opportunities and viewing area to the group of people that are the best friends of the Ft Lauderdale airport; we go with our families and cameras to enjoy our airport to have a good time.. and believe me this place is the last place any shady character will choose for doing a bad thing to an airplane.

I can understand closing the area sun down to sun up but to close it in the name of secuity it is funny, if we are serious about that, why don't we close Perimeter Road [in some places you are closer to an aircraft than in the viewing area] or maybe stop and search anyone going north and south by I-95 or by US 1 in the name of security, well then we will be secure and don't forget to put anti missile sites in the parking lots...well it is close to impossible right, so the next best thing is to be alert and ready to report any suspitious activity to the authorities and go about our lives as normal as possible...but don't take away our freedoms in the name of a false security, I have been taking pictures in FLL since the times of Mackey Airlines, Shawnee AL and in the early 80s Northeastern.. and Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood Int'l has always been one or the BEST airport in the "World" for airline diversity, photography and friendliness...please don't take that away, just hope the proper authorities reconsider.

EDDY J. GUAL AVIATION PHOTOGRAPHY OF MIAMI 305-281-3046

Sam Chui Visiting Ft Lauderdale from Australia 786-543-8673

SUBMIT=Submit my response
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
DB777
Topic Author
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:16 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Thu Dec 19, 2002 11:49 am

Here is an update to what is going on. The Sun-Sentinel newspaper reporter is working on a follow-up story to the situation and his editor expressed interest last week in doing a story on the online petition if we got the numbers up. Well we gained about 200 names since he last saw it (up to 470 as I write this) so I sent the reporter a reminder e-mail yesterday and he thanked me.

I sent an e-mail to the Miami Herald statewide desk advising them of the view park closure and the online petition and requested their consideration for a story and I haven't had a response.

Since the loss of aviation enthusiast visitors affects not only Broward County but also the City of Ft. Lauderdale, today I sent e-mails to Ft. Lauderdale Mayor Jim Naugle, Vice Mayor Cindi Hutchinson, and three city commissioners. I explained the situation with the airport view park closure and that they should check out the comments from some of the 400+ signatures on the petition because folks are mentioning that they will be avoiding South Florida on winter visits this year. I pointed out that while FLL is owned and operated by the county, the City of Ft. Lauderdale would also be impacted financially because some of our enthusiasts stay in Ft. Lauderdale. I also asked the Mayor, Vice Mayor and the commissioners to contact someone on the Broward Commission who they thought would listen to reason because they're not listening to all the e-mail writers who receive lame form responses that do not address the issues or answer questions posed by the writers. I received these responses from the Mayor and Vice Mayor of Ft. Lauderdale:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subj: Re: Online petition that concerns the City of Ft. Lauderdale
Date: 12/18/2002 4:53:54 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]

Thank you for the information.

Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subj: RE: Online petition that concerns the City of Ft. Lauderdale
Date: 12/18/2002 5:31:33 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Thanks Don for the info...I will pass on my comments.

Happy Holidays!

Cindi
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If there's anyone reading this who hasn't signed the online petition please do so at:

http://www.petitiononline.com/openpark/petition.html

Thanks everyone!

Don
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
 
Alaskaairlines
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:57 pm

Don, did you get my e-mail? I sent it a couple of days ago.

-Dmitry
 
DB777
Topic Author
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:16 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Fri Dec 20, 2002 6:38 am

No Dmitry, I didn't get it but I get so much spam it isn't funny and maybe I deleted it if you put "Hi" or something in the subject line that the spammers use. Send it to [email protected] please.

Don
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
 
Lindy
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 10:42 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Sat Dec 21, 2002 4:57 am

Hi All,

Few minutes ago I've got another email from Mrs. Parrish. She forwarded to me email from Karlen Dale" [email protected]

"I would counsel that it remain closed through the holiday season anyway. Without going into anything classified, here is why. I've carefully read all the correspondence forwarded to me to date from folks upset about the closing and providing their analyses of relevance to any terrorist threat. Suddenly, everyone is expert in analyzing terrorist behaviors. I would posit that they have a point concerning the low probability of a shoulder fired missile from the observation area. That, however is not the point. Were I to sit quietly in the park for a period of days, I could easily obtain specific information concerning which aircraft arrive and depart when, with emphasis on the big fat heavily laden ones, with exact police patrols, bcad patrols and other
security information, or even with information of "kindred souls" who might be approachable by me to recruit to my cause. The threat levels are currently elevated. Hostile surveillance, or "casing" or target analysis, (you may pick the term you prefer) is actively being conducted in this country. We gain much in making our airport just a little bit harder target with this one closing, while inconveniencing a very small group of folks, (albeit vociferous)."

You know what really made me angry - those few words "We gain much in making our airport just a little bit harder target with this one closing, while inconveniencing a very small group of folks"

This just shows that they dont give a damn about US.

Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Sat Dec 21, 2002 6:30 am

Oh come on, that email is one of the most ridiculous things Ive read regarding this...the park is not the only place for observation at FLL...you could do the same "obtaining of specific information" from the garage where they are currently directing spotters.

Geez...this is sooooooooooo frustrating...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3891
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Sat Dec 21, 2002 9:02 am

Sadly, it appears that this will be a long uphill battle. One thing that would help is if we had a so called 'expert' in our corner then we might get a little more credibility and be taken more seriously.

Remember some these guys are elected officials or bureaucrats who are in some cases taking these actions in order to advance their careers putting feathers into their political caps so to speak. It is so much easier and cheaper closing off an area like the the famous FLL park than either installing video cameras and or placing police in the area. I rather get the feeling this is nothing more than a show put on by these individuals to say "Hey look at what I am doing to protect you, the travelling public" and "remember me when the next election rolls around......your saviour". Frankly they could care less our feelings on this subject, as most of us are not Broward County resident voters.

My heart goes out to you FLL and MCO guys as well as any others who are experiencing similar problems nationwide.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
tpk
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2000 4:48 am

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Sat Dec 21, 2002 9:56 am

"Were I to sit quietly in the park for a period of days, I could easily obtain specific information concerning which aircraft arrive and depart when"

I could do that without sitting there. It's called reading a timetable.
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Sat Dec 21, 2002 11:04 am

Good point Tpk...apparently the TSA doesnt know of something called *cough* OAG *cough*....

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Sun Dec 22, 2002 12:48 am

We all share the same opinion on the reasoning behind the closure of the viewing park but for what it's worth, I was content in that Comissionner Parrish at least shared that information with us. Perhaps there is still a tad bit of hope that it will re-open at some point.

-Chris
Bonjour Chef!
 
AC320
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Need Your Help Regarding FLL Viewing Area

Mon Dec 23, 2002 2:46 pm

Well I pitched a story idea featuring spotters at FLL to my superiors at the Sun-Sentinel. No one wanted it, said there was "no interest" and I should maybe try again when the air show rolls around............
fuddle duddle

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos