Good day everyone,

I noticed something strange while uploading a picture a few minutes ago. I had 2 pictures in the Q prior to uplading another picture, and there were about 5,000 pics in front of me. I then checked where they were standing in the Q after uploading, and much to my surprise this is what I saw:

9017 photos and 1616 photographers are currently before you in the queue (the number of photos may increase, not the number of photographers).

Of your 3 photos currently in the upload queue:
0 have been brought to the attention of other screeners for their views.
0 is deemed a difficult border-case and has been left to Johan for final decision.
3 have not been screened yet.

All my pics got bumped to the end of the Q.

Did I miss something?

Would suggest to me that your first two got screened..and either directly accepted or rejected.

No. They wouldnt show up at his latest check if they were. Perhaps you get kicked back to the end when you add pics to your batch now. Dunno.

Wietse

The first two were not accepted nor rejected, at least I didn't get an e-mail saying so. Really weird.

Didn't we have it once, where for a (very) short time, adding further pix to the que would put all your pix in last place?

Also - I believe it is already known, and just a matter of time to be put right, but a photographer search will not display the latest images that have been accepted.

Tom

There maybe some news about the queue soon.............

Cheers

Paul

the same happened to me... :-(
very strange.


There are a total of 9086 photos waiting to be processed on the upload page (32 waiting for Johan and 9054 waiting for the screeners).

Of those, 7 are yours.

9008 photos and 1602 photographers are currently before you in the queue (the number of photos may increase, not the number of photographers).

Of your 7 photos currently in the upload queue:
1 have been brought to the attention of other screeners for their views.
0 is deemed a difficult border-case and has been left to Johan for final decision.
6 have not been screened yet.

Furthermore, there is 0 photos in the Appeal queue that will be screened by Johan.

Hey Paul (Sukhoi)... that's a pretty intriguing sentence you left dangling in the air... care to elaborate?

Also, the queue has dwindled pretty dramatically from yesterday to today.

Andrew

So I assume we are going back two years ago, when every picture you added would automatically bring the other pics at the back of the queue ?

I kinda dislike this.

707

I think the crewmembers are on strike, uhhh.. vacations.  

The addition of 3 photographs (12 to 15) has just moved my position from 5709 & 956 back to 9014 & 1587 after 5 days in the queue.

Any comments please from the crew about an apparent computer problem.

Neville

Before I add more pictures could some one please answer the question

Having thought about it I think what would be all right is say you have a 24 hour period to upload 30 pictures to your upload Q then you go to the back of the Q with all of them that would solve the problem of people putting 60 in at one time…

I notice that "certain" people get their photos uploaded right away while the majority of people are left waiting and waiting.........very fair screening huh? If you don't believe me, seems Sam Chui had 0 photos in the queue until June 6 and now has had 26 photos uploaded in 24-36 hours. Yeah fair screening here guys........

[Edited 2004-06-08 06:42:54]

Too busy screening.  

All will be revealed in due time. Those that are Patient will be rewarded.

Cheers

Ok, here's what I think.

This new thing of adding your photos bringing all of your other photos to the end of the line is, quite frankly, Bullshit. I know you guys have a tough job to do with all the photos, but seriously, is this really necessary?

When I go out and do some shooting, after I post-process, I wanna be able to upload the pics and get them off my hard-drive and onto a cd. I like to be done with a batch before I burn it to cd, and I won't burn it until i am done with a batch.

Please reconsider your idea to bump pictures back in the line. I'm one of the people who sits at home with 29 pics on my HD and one in the Cue waiting for it to get closer, I just upload as I go. If I do upload and this takes affect, I'll never get screened.

Just my .02 and keep up the good work screeners
Eric

if this is case, thats total BS ... i have to agree ... , but with all the people whining about the Q , here is what u get ...... , I ve never complained about the Q , cause I think it is/was okay ...
a bigger problem I see here is the lack of communication from A.net to Uploaders, who make this site so interesting , thats not agianst the screeners, but agianst the Administration. common , TELL US , WHATS GOING ON NOW!
re unfair direct screening of sam chui: I dont htink, thats the case, if so, this would be very unfair, and hit in the face for all other not high end photogs ....

robin

Hi all

No preferential treatment for Sam at all.

When I screen a new page of images, if I come across a shot that is worthy of a direct add, it will be direct added, regardless of photographer and regardless of the date.

All the fu***** moaning over the past week has prompted this screener to stop for a week. I personally need a break and maybe use that break to process my OWN images that need uploading.

Other things are more important at the moment. Screening repetitive '3 in a row landing shots' is not.

Cheers

Gary

gary,

I fully understand what u r saying .... , I would be pissed off the same like u. Stop screening, and look for ur own pics .....

robin

Gary, you're a volunteer. You don't need to justify taking time out to anyone here. You all do a terrific job.

I think it's a hard measure, but on reflection, I don't have a problem with it. I've taken advantage of the high-quality queue 'placehold' before, and - like anything else - you've got to accept house rules.

you still have not answered the question of why they are getting bumped back to the back of the Q

I know that feeling Gary, go out and get some shots while the weather is warm-It's hot down here in London so it might even be warm enough to clear the snow off the runway at ABZ 

Paulinbna-I don't know what is going on anymore than you do but I guess that we are going back to the old system of your shots going to the back of the queue each time you upload.



Matt

So what time period are they giving to upload in before you go back to the end of the Q. Just Curious that is all.

"If you don't believe me, seems Sam Chui had 0 photos in the queue until June 6 and now has had 26 photos uploaded in 24-36 hours. Yeah fair screening here guys........
"

Steve I consider you a friend, but this statement is a slap in the face. I came across Sam's images while pulling up a normal page out of the queue, and instant added Sam's shots because of high quality along with some shots of other photographers. So preferential treatment only because of high quality photos and not because of a name, something we'll do for ANY photographer.

Johan is currently working on a new upload queue system, so please have a little patience and wait until he's done and ready to make the new changes public.

Tim

Thank you so much for clearing that up Tim...(About the Q)

Thanks again

i spoke with Sam last week when he was in Beijing, he did have 1 or 2 shots in the Que before he went to Iran, his Que status yesterday was quite low so would be easier for him to get some shots up quicker.

i don't think he got any special treatment, just smart enough to upload something when the Que was high and then send some more just after he got back.

thx tim for the haeds up, but am i wrong, if i say that it would be good to make it public before changing the sys? eg if u upload a new pic, watch out u will be kicked back at the end of the Q .....
some guys had been very unlucky without knowing that .... , I am pretty happy that I didnt load up a pic yesterday  

cheerio robin

@ Garry & Tim

What about the priority screening in the moment? I've sent out an email to the screeners yesterday morning... but no screening yet or an info that you don't agree with a priority screening? It's about the first MD-80 for Bulgarian Air Charter.

Tobi

Tobi

I may be wrong but I think we already have one of those uploaded.

Regards

Gary

So... what's the deal with the queue? My images got bumped back from 703 all the way down to the back too. What's going on??

Alex.

I screened some of Sam's shots too I think that his were screened more quickly because he had a shot or too in the more than one screener to add queue. I think I might have even rejected one of his shots too, guess I'm for the sack the way some people think!

One of the things that is being worked on is to prevent people with shots already in the queue gaining precedence over others when they upload new shots. So in theory we shouldn't see next/day same day normal shots being uploaded in front of others.

Shame we cant find a way for the people uploading the same rejected shot 5 or 6 times with the quality no better or worse as it normally is, realizing that the shot is no good and were not going to take it no matter how many times they waste our time and the time of the people in the queue.

Cheers

Another happy screener 

So... what's the deal with the queue? My images got bumped back from 703 all the way down to the back too. What's going on??

I second that question.
From what has been written above, it really looks like Johan is testing a new feature, on the real queue.
I would expect some communication on that, but we are currently left in the dark, and that is a bit insulting.

Some head up would be appreciated by the photographer community.

707

When I joined, I don't remember reading anything implying there would be anything but someone screening my photos. No mention of speed, no guarantee someone else's photos wouldn't get in first, no declaration that someone would notify me of any changes to the policy, no one implied I would have a say in the procedure, etc.

Did anyone get anything like that? Maybe I missed it?

What we have right now is what we agreed to. Submit a photo, someone will look at it and decide if it gets in or not. I can't say I've seen a photo from anyone that "needs" to be added any faster then they are now. They are just airplanes for crying out loud. No big deal in my opinion.


-Jeff

Definitively there is a problem...I have been looking during the last five minutes and here is the stat:

10 minutes ago:
9119 photos and 1585 photographers are currently before you in the queue (the number of photos may increase, not the number of photographers).

5 minutes
8981 photos and 1563 photographers are currently before you in the queue (the number of photos may increase, not the number of photographers).

now
9028 photos and 1568 photographers are currently before you in the queue (the number of photos may increase, not the number of photographers).

What is happening?

Hopefully I got 25 accepted last week 

Brgrds,

DARIO

The screeners can take however long they want to screen my pictures, it doesn't matter to me, it's just a bit frustrating to get kicked back when you're not expecting it.

One of the things that is being worked on is to prevent people with shots already in the queue gaining precedence over others when they upload new shots. So in theory we shouldn't see next/day same day normal shots being uploaded in front of others.

Quite frankly I think that this is a good idea.

I believe the current system will be very effective.

It puts the matter back on the uploader and takes care of piggybacking shots at the front of the que.

Whats that please?Why I got kicked back to the end of the queue!I don't understand this kind of screening or so!?It's not fair I think!
Cheers Tom Mousel

Morning guys,

Although I have been kicked back by 6,000 pics last evening (after I uploaded a photo) I really like the idea. The queue is fairer this way. Have a look at the search page—for the first time the upload limit seems to be working. I suppose if people have photos in the queue now they think harder before they upload an other photo & an other one & yet one more ...  

Thomas

[Edited 2004-06-09 09:09:37]

the new sys has a big disadvantage:

we wont be able to see new pics datewise. We will only see pics , which are roughly 1 - 2 weeks old. with the old system every one was cabable to load up some 15 pics and wait till these pics get screend and go into HQ. Then you would have been able to load up some 15 "new" pics.
This was especially nice , if you have a really intersting plane at ur airport. eg remember when the SAA A346 was at ZRH. Everybody got to see her 1 day after she was at ZRH.
This is of course not the case, if you have a "newsbanner" pic, these will get priority screening ...
With the new sys it will be like, everybody loads up the whole 30 pics, waits till they get screend, and then loads up again 30 pics, and again, and again ....

I THINK WITH THE NEW SYS A.NET HAS LOST A LOT OF "ACTUALITY"

But as before, I wont moan or anything, just pointing that out ..... , I was really fine with the old system, even , if some guys got more then 30 pics accepted within 24 - 48 hrs ....

Also I think it is a illusion that the Q will get down with the new sys, it will be exact the opposit, the Q will be higher !!!!!

just my 2 cents ...

Robin

Okay.
I guess it is time for me to start the real ranting about the queue (you might want to do a search, I don't think I have ever complained about the length of he queue before).

So the May 2002 queue is back ? Let's go back a little in time.
I remember that time quite clearly, that was when I started to take airplane pictures (had a 1.2 Mpixels Olympus C130L at the time). We had a bit less screeners at the time, but already was the queue quite clogged - more than 4,000 pictures at times, which is actually equivalent to the current situation (less screeners and less photographers) - sometimes, it was taking more than 2 weeks for some pics to get screened !

To solve the problems at the time, Johan got new servers, and recruited new screeners. Now, to prevent the queue to increase too much during the new servers installations, he put in place this temporary queue system : each pics added in the queue would bring back all the other pics of the photographer in the back of the queue. Let us note this was a temporary measure that actually remained temporary. As soon as the new servers were in place - even before the arrival of the new screeners, the queue as we know it was back.

Let us think of the effects of the queue system as it is since last night : for the moment, there are 2488 photos and 446 photographers before me in the queue. Which means roughly 5~6 pictures per photographers. Most of us upload a few pics at a time, and add a few more as the pics progress in the queue. That way, we take more time per picture, pay more attention to the quality, the accuracy of the information attached. So. What will be the effect of the new system ?
We now know that as soon as we upload a picture, we are back to the very end of the queue. So once an upload session is over, we are not willing to upload the next day. Most probably, everybody and their dog shall start to upload 30 pictures each time ! 446 photographer in front of me in the queue will not mean 2488 photos anymore, it will mean 13,380 photos. And that's only one quarter of the current queue !
Plus, somebody uploading 30 photos in a single batch instead of 30 photos over a 10 day period is likely to upload mostly cr*ppy pictures (I think the screeners will not disagree with me on that one).
Second possible side effect - which has already been heard in another thread. People will want to upload pictures without affecting their current position in the queue ? Very simple, they will upload those under their name with an alternate email address. Henks was most unamused by that idea, but I am afraid some people will start to use it.

What are the real solutions to improve screening time ?
1st one has been said and re-said countless times by everybody here : a FIFO queue, a real one would solve most of the problems. An HQ queue is ridiculous : having a picture go HQ, then rejected by the third screener is ridiculous. Either a pic is A.net material, or it is not.

2nd one : hire new screeners. Back in 2002 when Johan hired new screeners, he offered the position to everybody with more than 50 pics in the database (yes, 50 !). And that was when the standards were not as high as they are today !
We see a lot of screeners complaining that they are fed up to screen, the same way as someone would complain about their job. Well, nobody is forcing them to do that job. Your life does not depend on it. You don't like it, you can stop it. A lot of previous screeners have stopped it already. And a lot of people are willing and capable to become screeners. Come on. Two years ago 50 pics was all that was needed to become a screener. If we raise that limit to 500, we still have more than 250 photographers on A.net that qualify.

Anyway, thanks for your time, and thank you for reading this.

707

707 wrote:
---
An HQ queue is ridiculous : having a picture go HQ, then rejected by the third screener is ridiculous. Either a pic is A.net material, or it is not.
---

Indeed either it is or it is not but sometimes you need more than two eyes to check this. Do you see every "mistake" on your pictures with your own two eyes? I dont believe so.

---
We see a lot of screeners complaining that they are fed up to screen, the same way as someone would complain about their job. Well, nobody is forcing them to do that job. Your life does not depend on it. You don't like it, you can stop it.
---

Let me reverse this:
We se a lot of photographers complaining that they are fed up to wait for their pics to hbe screened the same way as someone would complain not to get something for free. Well nobody is forcing you to upload. Your life does not depend on the time the photos get screened in

Oh and by the way its no job cause we dont get paid for it



[Edited 2004-06-09 10:14:07]

The thing to bear in mind is what's being achieved. Theoretically, none of the changes being made or being proposed (FIFO, get-to-the-back-of-the-queue) will actually make things any faster. The screeners can only have a certain amount of throughput.

If there's 10K in the queue, there's 10K in the queue. How they get there, or what order they are in, is irrelevant.

Indeed either it is or it is not but sometimes you need more than two eyes to check this. Do you see every "mistake" on your pictures with your own two eyes? I dont believe so.

Well that means that the other sites' screeners have better eyes, then.
Bottom line ; Photographers (you know, the guys that MAKE a.net) WANT THE HQ QUEUE TO DISAPPEAR.

BTW beta-testing a new queue system on the photogs without a warning beforehand is a utter lack of respect.

I second 707cmf's thoughts, if your screening "job" aggravates you, there are plenty of others waiting to take your place.

Will

Robin,

Perhaps you should read Tim's message again?

Johan is currently working on a new upload queue system, so please have a little patience and wait until he's done and ready to make the new changes public.


I THINK WITH THE NEW SYS A.NET HAS LOST A LOT OF "ACTUALITY"

Is this the NEW SYS in it's final form or shall we let Johan finish and then see what he announces? Patience....... I know it can be frustrating but good things take time.

Cheers

Colin

colin,

might be that the new SYS will look again different like todays SYS. I dont know that .... , hopefully it will .....

I just wanted to point that "ACTUALITY" thing out ..... , I hope it wont be the case, anyway, perhaps you are right, and we shouldnt discuss/judge about things, which are not in their final form yet ....

robin

[Edited 2004-06-09 10:35:44]

Jeff ... Well said , i just wish everyone had the same opinion (reply 32) ,

For those who are having a good old rant please read Jeff's reply !

also 707 with all respect please realize and understand that over the last 12/18months the number of people with either digital cams or digital SLR has possibly trebled along with the amount of poor quality and double images uploaded ... Doesn't help the screeners ...

All goes back to self screening , but alas there is only a few people who actually do this... WE are not here to select which one of 5 you should upload either

think about the facts before acting

The changes being looked at will be fair to everyone

regards Tony

Tony,

On the plus side it is a measure of the site's importance to people that these kinds of feelings froth over.

It would be far worse if nobody cared.

Indeed either it is or it is not but sometimes you need more than two eyes to check this. Do you see every "mistake" on your pictures with your own two eyes? I dont believe so.

That should be a rare occurrence, not a common one.
You screeners have been chosen because you were qualified to judge a picture. Screening process should be yes or no directly for most of the pictures, and, in rare occurrences, the 'border cases', ask one other screener.

Border cases, by definition should not be common occurrence. In reality, it looks like they actually are the norm, as 95% of the pics I upload first go to the H queue. (and after that, some are accepted, some are rejected).


also 707 with all respect please realize and understand that over the last 12/18months the number of people with either digital cams or digital SLR has possibly trebled along with the amount of poor quality and double images uploaded ... Doesn't help the screeners ...

So.... kicking all pictures to the back of the queue will prevent bad double/common ? Come on. Let's say 30 photographers are at the same airport the same day. They all shoot the same aircraft from the same position. Some will upload the very evening, some will wait a week. Those who have waited (I for once seldom upload the same day) will try and check the earlier pictures. With the old system, it is probable they will see some of the pictures have already been added, and no need for their new ones (I know, some will upload anyway - but not all of them. And some other shall try to submit a different angle.). With the new system, what will happen ? They will see no picture of the occurrence, and all of them will joyfully upload the same aircraft from the same spot at the same day...

BTW beta-testing a new queue system on the photogs without a warning beforehand is a utter lack of respect.

I second that. In France, there is a saying that "Nul n'est censé ignorer la loi" (everybody is expected to know the law). It is possible since all laws and rules are public. This is not the case here. Remember that in the end of the day, the photographers are the ones who make A.net what it is. Changing the rules for them without even notifying them is indeed a lack of respect.

707

Hi all

Will, did you honestly think that your LOT EMB shot would make it to the database?

A classic example of clogging the database with tripe.

Do me a favour, link the rejected shot here for all to see.

Cheers

Gary

[Edited 2004-06-09 11:45:46]

Can we please stop moaning about the queue until we know what we are discussing: until the new system has been revealed and know the policy behind it.

I second Tony about reply 32: couldn't have said it better Jeff.

Sven

[Edited 2004-06-09 11:43:54]