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eksath
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Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:57 am

Greetings from Miami everyone,

I have been a longtime lurker and decided the time has come to post. I have enjoyed the wide range of discussions previously and have this to add. Am getting more suspicious of people using my pictures for commercial use without any approval from me. I know this is regularly happening to others (probably a lot more than to me).Note: I have made legit commericial sales here too but it is the undocumented/unknown/"stolen" that I refer to.

I have two instances of unauthorized use which are the tip of the iceberg given the serendipitous manner in which I got to know about them
While these may be mildly annoying uses,they point to how easy we are getting ripped off with almost no protection accept for a little footer banner that can be cropped out by a 7 year old.

CASE A:

A few months back a photo technician from a rather large commercial printer reported to me of a "gentleman" who brought in one of my images (uncropped with my name still on it) for editing and preparation for poster printing!..I guess my name on it made the technician (thumbsup to him) find my email address and send me a email...wow!

CASE B:

I just discovered a rather blatant use of one of my pictures (unauthorized) on a website which appears to be non commericial (it is in another language). While I have have given permission to a host of individuals/non-for-profits/schools/government,I particularly am beginning to get more and more ticked off when I find my work with someone else's name on it!....Perhaps I am just getting crankier but.....

This picture intrigued me 'cos I originally didn't know where I was but after some research from other airliners.net members helped identify the location..Well...Apparently other people like it too..Quite specifically this guy!

My Finnish is not great but i think the webmaster are actually THANKING him for the shot (Can a FINN please help me with translation?)

http://gamma.nic.fi/~mtkoskin/kiikala_saatio_1.htm

This is my picture.....
@


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Suresh A. Atapattu



he put it up here..

http://www.lentopaikat.net/efik.shtml

see the picture on far right top..Is it not mine?....Pretty freaking amazing to get the clouds to line up perfectly if it ain't mine,eh?

here is the picture page from their website in large size:

http://www.lentopaikat.net/kuvat/efik/efik_air.htm

well...How about WATERMARKS?...I am sure the administrators have talked/discussed this before but this technology can really help us.Given the voulme of hits,it is a safe bet to assume that this is happaning everyday to you or another photographer here.....sad,eh?


just a thought...

peace

Suresh
p.s. the funny thing is if he asked me it,i would have given him permission and only asked for photo credit ....

World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
OV735
Posts: 832
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:49 am

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:22 am

Well, judging by the clouds visible on the photo, I'd say it's definetly yours, unless Mr. Koskinen (who is marked as the author of the photo), was sitting right behind you in the aircraft where you took it from.

Although my Finnish is limited to buying vanilla ice cream from a kiosk, it seems to me that Mr. Koskinen is also hosting that http://gamma.nic.fi/~mtkoskin/kiikala_saatio_1.htm website. Why not contact him using the email address given in the bottom of the page.

Good luck, I hope you can get it sorted out.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:45 pm

Watermarks, unless so intrusive they obscure large parts of the image, won't help a bit.
They're quite easy to remove or they'll just be ignored.

The ONLY way to make sure noone steals your work is to put the photos (and everything that relates to them) in a steel box, weld it shut, and heat it to above the point where the content will self-combust.
After that toss the box into the Mariana trough so it'll implode and the content settle to the bottom of the deepest part of the ocean.
I wish I were flying
 
pepef
Posts: 412
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:12 pm

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:29 pm

Hi Suresh,

The text under your photo:
"Kiikalan kenttä ilmasta käsin nähtynä. Kuva Matti T. Koskinen."

means

The Kiikala airfield from the air. Photo by Matti T Koskinen

I emailed the admin people to let them know about this. I hope they respond quickly. It's a small site so it might take a while, but stealing images is not a national past time in Finland, so I'm sure they'll respond.

My Finnish is not great but i think the webmaster are actually THANKING him for the shot (Can a FINN please help me with translation?)

They are not thanking him, this lists him as the vice-chairman of the Kiikala flight association (rough translation).

-Pepe F-

[Edited 2004-08-03 09:38:54]
 
Sukhoi
Posts: 1561
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:03 am

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:00 pm

Suresh,

If you have your pics on the net then they will get used without your knowledge. Happens to all of us, doesn't matter if its kids with their own website or major airlines they all have a habit of using images without authority.

Only thing to do is contact those that are using images

Its one of the downfalls of the net

Paul
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:02 pm

Not just the net.
If you publish anything in a book or magazine people will make copies of that and use them in company newsletters, school papers, etc. etc. without asking.

It's just less likely you'll ever find out.
I wish I were flying
 
pepef
Posts: 412
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:12 pm

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:05 am

Just got an email from the site administrator. The picture has been removed with apologies to the photographer. They had no idea the picture was not taken by the person who submitted it.

-Peter F-  Smile
 
saxdiva
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:51 pm

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:40 am

Here's a question for a crew member: when we upload images, are they saved in a way that preserves any existing metadata? If so, maybe photographers can save copyright information that way.

I realize that it can be changed, but I also suspect that anyone stupid enough to steal a photo off this site won't think to look for it.

-Leanne
See terms for details....
 
ChrisH
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:25 am

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:47 am

The EXIF data disappears. Open an image in PS and have a look at File Info and you'll see it's gone.
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
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eksath
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RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:01 am

Just got an email from the site administrator. The picture has been removed with apologies to the photographer. They had no idea the picture was not taken by the person who submitted it.

-Peter F-


Thank you,Peter!  Wink/being sarcastic

.. stealing images is not a national past time in Finland

I know the Finns are an extremely honest people and society so this is no reflection on them. On my first visit there, I was mildly shocked to find my hosts dont lock the doors at home....and then they told me it was normal...WOW... amazing..if i did that in Miami......

Regards the watermark, i still feel that we need something more than the cursory footer to protect our "intellectual" property. The technology and capability of the NET has grown and i think a bigger watermark however subtle is needed. Hopefully one of the bright board members can suggest something that the adminstration can easily implement while maintaining the overall mission of the website/database....

There has to be a some common ground between total exposure to exploitation and self mutilation of the picture by the photographer to limit use. Wink/being sarcastic

Suresh

World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
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Jofa
Posts: 316
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RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:31 pm

Exifdata and watermarks in all their glory... the main problem is to find the stolen images in the first place not identify them once they're found.
 
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eksath
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RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:28 am

Exifdata and watermarks in all their glory... the main problem is to find the stolen images in the first place not identify them once they're found.

I disagree...watermarks =deterent from stealing
also
if stolen they act as "Lo Jack" or pointer showing the unwary buyer/viewer of the TRUE source of the picture (e.g. watermark of the url:www.airliners.net)

Here is how the Smithsonian protects their images.Ignore the negative # but see the watermark on top right corner?



World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
ChrisH
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:25 am

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:29 am


I would not want an ugly mark like that on my photos. Would look horrible in a blue sky or sunset.
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
saxdiva
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:51 pm

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:40 am

I had to get nasty about watermarks when a picture I took started selling as a fundraiser for a nonprofit I volunteer with. We charge $25 for an 8" x 10" print, matted and framed, and 100% of the sale goes to the charity. Believe it or not, that still doesn't keep people from ripping it off. So I added the watermark from hell:

http://www.leannepowers.com/dogpics/old_lady_cpy.jpg

And yes, people still buy the prints from time to time.

-Leanne
See terms for details....
 
GRZ-AIR
Posts: 541
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 3:02 am

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:49 am



Why not just disable the RIGHT CLICK FUNCTION!
I bet if it would be propagated more that if you CONTACT the Photogs you can use the pictures that would work better.


chherrs jstflyin
When I joined A.net it was still free, haha ;).
 
OV735
Posts: 832
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:49 am

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:56 pm

The right-click function can be easily bypassed by taking a screen shot and then cropping the image and save it to another file. So it's not perfectly fail-safe either.
 
meister808
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2000 11:45 am

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:01 pm

Well, if you disable the right-click function, then no one can use the pictures for anything, at all. I think that takes away a good part of the utility of the website. I know many many people who use A.net images as screensavers, windows desktop backgrounds, and in various other non-commercial, personal uses. This behavior is acceptable based on the use policy(https://www.airliners.net/usephotos/).

Personally, if and when I get photos accepted here, I would expect that this kind of use is taking place. I don't condone someone benefitting from someone else's shots without credit, but I can't see what the big deal is about having an A.net slideshow as a screensaver. Disabling the right-click would stop that kind of use, so I wouldn't recommend doing that.

-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
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eksath
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RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:23 am

Well..the idea is to make the copying a little bit harder. While i dont think disabling the right click is bad,it can be quite easily circumvented as mentioned above. Also, the HTML file can be saved. ..so this still brings back to imprinting a unique identifier (i.e. URL=www.airliners.net) into the picture in a location where it is an intergral part (so it cannot be chopped off or airbrushed out) in Photoshop....


any other ideas,people?....heck I dont want to make the pictures unsightly either but there has go to be some common consensus on safguards. Airliners.net has evolved so much and the quality of the work displayed has too..hence the need for interlectual property protection.

suresh
World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
Tommy Mogren
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 9:30 pm

RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:48 am

Eksath :

I'm all with you here. Something really needs to be done.
Unfortunately the site admin doesn't think so, and it won't happen.

People always return with a - "They will steal your shots no matter what you do", type of argument.
Sure, but why put the goods out on the street, keep 'em in the store.
Make it difficult.

We all know it's near impossible to protect our photos completely, but I wish something was done to make it harder and people needed a lot more skills to succeed.

Oh, just my 0.50 öre.....

Tommy Mogren


Flightdeck Action - Cockpit Videos on Blu-ray and DVD - Flights In The Cockpit- You're Invited!
 
User avatar
eksath
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RE: Unauthorized Picture Use..WATERMARK Us Please?

Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:01 am

Just to jog the collective mind, I did a cursory search on stolen pictures and found these threads on members complaining about stolen pictures and here is the result, there is so many of these but here a sample.They all seem to have have the same issue (i.e. pictures stolen and members bringing it to the attention to us.....perhaps all of this can be stopped or reduced)

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/113165/6/

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/107444/

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/104974/

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/118652/6/

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/118158/6/

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/aviation_photography/read.main/113013/

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