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LHSebi
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30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:41 am


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Doesn't this seem a bit extreme of a climb angle?

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
LGW
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:46 am

Hi all,

I am not going to say anything too definate as I wasnt there when the shot was taken and all I know it was off empty to CWL but from the info I have this is BA279 to LAX all I will say is when I saw this shot earlier it made me say hummmmm......

Ben Pritchard
 
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JeffM
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:48 am

It does to me, but I don't shoot a lot of them here in Denver. I would bet Jason will give you the answer your looking for if you were to email him and ask.  Big grin
 
LHSebi
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:52 am

Too lazy to email, sorry  Laugh out loud. Let's see what people here think!

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
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JeffM
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:57 am

Sebastian,
I guess you missed the point. If you were to ask, it would not look like you are trying to discredit the photographer.
 
LHSebi
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:03 am

My bad. Sorry! I'll make it clear, I am not trying to discredit the photographer. There must be an explanation, such as what Ben suggested, that it may have been going out empty. Using Ben's words:

it made me say hummmmm...... Big grin

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
futterman
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:18 am

My bad. Sorry! I'll make it clear, I am not trying to discredit the photographer.

LOL Crystal clear. Sounds familiar, though...  Big thumbs up
What the FUTT?
 
EGGD
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:39 am

That looks more like 60 degree's to me  Big thumbs up
 
Danny
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:49 am

Shortly speaking - badcameraangle  Smile

 
res
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:08 am

If I wanted a lot of hits, i'd alter a photo just like this...but thats just not me.
FLY NAVY
 
Craigy
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:19 am

Combination of the aircraft moving away from the photographer, possibly a little banking and the camera being a little tilted?

Are there any hard and fast rules here about level shots when airbourne? I personally like the shot - something a little bit different.

Craig.
 
ExitRow
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Ph

Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:24 am

Look for the horizon in the reflections of the nacelles. It's a natural plumb line. No matter what the plane is doing, and despite some angular distortion due to the contour, the reflected horizon will always show the way to level...

 
LHSebi
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:38 am

Look for the horizon in the reflections of the nacelles. It's a natural plumb line. No matter what the plane is doing, and despite some angular distortion due to the contour, the reflected horizon will always show the way to level...

In other words, this photo is not what it seems? I'm not accusing, but that's just what I seem to see when I look at the horizon reflection.

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
mirage
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:46 am

I would like to see the original file.

Luis
 
Danny
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:52 am

I recall discussion some time ago on that topic and I think screeners conclusion was that as long as ground objects are not visible there is no basis for badcameraangle rejection. It is nice shot indeed but I won't believe this 747 was climbing at 50 degrees angle.
 
DB777
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Ph

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:23 am

So if there are no ground objects in sight, we can put any angle on the aircraft we want? Is that what you're saying? Even if the horizon in the cowling reflections is way off like in the above shot?
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
 
Continental
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:28 am

Discrediting or not, that's just not correct. There's no way it's climbing like that, especially a 747. The photographer just tilts the camera a bit, I think Jason has done this a few times. It creates a cool effect, but it's not realistic.
 
jetav8r
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:37 am

In the states any climb over 30* is considered an aerobatic manuver (which I wouldn't imagine a 747 is certified for) and all passengers must have a parachute on. Is this the same in Europe?
 
jderden777
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:46 am

hope ya'll don't mind....just did a little bit of photoshop work...i have to honestly say this looks a bit more realistic...but like Luis, i'd like to see the original file as well.

jd



"my soul is in the sky" - shakespeare
 
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JeffM
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:52 am

"but like Luis, i'd like to see the original file as well.
"


What will the original tell you if the camera was tilted? Nothing.
 
mirage
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:56 am

I still would like to see the original file.

Luis
 
ChrisH
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:00 am


The original would tell quite a lot. Unless he uses a camera with a nearly square CCD.
what seems to be the officer, problem?
 
aviopic
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:04 am

Many similar shots can be found taken from AMS and in general they look like this.

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Photo © Willem Honders



The one from Jason looks very steep indeed, i would like to learn the special technique involved here  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
runway23
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:21 am

And the big deal is?

A photo like this isn't impossible to get it just takes the right combination of where the photographer stood and how the plane was banking. I personally doubt that Jason did rotate the photo. If he did well tough luck... In any case the angle of the picture is interesting.

In any case the original won't prove anything as the camera can be tilted, next time you go to the airport tilt your camera to the left and you'll see many go-arounds  Big grin

Tim
 
KingWide
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:37 am

wow!

all this fuss for a shot of mine. I feel privileged.  Smile

Not rotated in photoshop, that's the out of the camera shot. Whether the camera is level or not I can't say. What I can say is that the aircraft is a fairly long way away, I'm using 600 mm here and the a/c may well have been turning right at the time, I'm also at a fairly acute angle to the aircraft. The perspectives sometimes get a little bit distorted when these factors are taken together.

I'd put it down to a combination of the above and just look at it for what it is - an image of an aircraft. It may not be a perfect 'record' shot but then most of the striking images on this site seldom are. Not that I'm necessarily saying it's striking but it certainly seems to have struck a few of you.

J
Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:14 am

Jason Taperell is a top notch photo and his portfolio is so impressive that he has no need to imappropriately tilt a shot like that.

We've all seen illusions that make you think that the plane is at a different angle than it is. This is jsut one of those cases. If the plane was turning right, I could certainly see how it can be misleading.

-Phil
Phil Derner Jr.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:15 am

It just a visual trick, lots of shots from HNL look like this, big turns plus a climb...


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mirage
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:01 am

Yes, different prespectives of the same subject can fool people, I suppose this is the same departure:


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Luis
 
Continental
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:12 am

Ok, it's basically figured out. It's unequivocally apparent that the plane is not taking a 30 degree+ climb, especially since it's not high off the ground. It's just a neat camera trick!
 
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JeffM
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:33 am

"It's just a neat camera trick!"

More like lack of attention to detail.  Big grin ExitRow summed it up with his point on viewing the horizon.
 
Continental
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:12 am

Yes, I am well aware of that, use the natural plumb line to establish where the horizon is. I still think it's a neat trick to rotate the camera like that.
 
hisham
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Ph

Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:55 pm

I still think it's a neat trick to rotate the camera like that.

One to avoid  Big grin

Hisham.
 
ckw
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:59 pm

One to avoid

Rather depends what you're after doesn't it?

If I can make the bold assumption that there is some art to photography, then photography must allow some scope for the photographer to present an interpretation of the scene. If tilting the camera, or for that matter, holding it upside down creates a more interesting and exciting image, I say go for it.

Yes, A.net has rules about such things (excessively restrictive in my opinion), but Jason hasn't broken any rules here - he has framed a dynamic shot in the viewfinder - whether the camera was level or not is frankly, irrelevant.

If photography is only to be used to make a factual record of the world, please hand me my paint brush - and as to the rest of you, please immediatly hand in your telephotos, wideangles and polarizers and any other image enhancing/altering devices which may be in your possession.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
mirage
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:21 pm

So I assume it's common pratice to accept the camera tilting if that produces a striking image.

Sorry Colin but if my interpretation is correct, I don't agree with it, unless it's explained in the remarks field.

Luis
 
ckw
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:04 pm

I'd say it is common practice to rotate shots to produce the best image outside the world of A.net.

In A.net world, images are not allowed to be altered, but the "level to the horizon rule" only applies when the horizon is visible. Given that the photographer would not have a horizon reference in the viewfinder, there is no way of him knowing whether the camera was tilted or not, which is why I say that information is irrelevant.

Jason has said he didn't rotate it in PS, and that's good enough for me.

No picture should need to be explained in the remarks field. Take it for what it is, love it or hate it. Exactly what difference does it make to the image whether the camera was tilted or not?

What would be wrong is if the photographer did knowingly tilt the camera and then claim in the remarks field that this was a very steep climbout.

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
mirage
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:28 pm

Thanks for your reply Colin, as always you have a special gift to explain things. But remember there are some types of clouds that are formed in horizontal layers and can be an easy reference to understand how exagerated or not is the camera tilting.

Luis
 
spencer
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:47 pm

It's a nice shot, plain and simple! I'll do at least one tilted camera shot per 100 shots I'd say, just because it might provide a more interesting result. I see nothing wrong with that, rules or no rules!
Spencer.
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ckw
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:46 pm

But remember there are some types of clouds that are formed in horizontal layers and can be an easy reference to understand how exagerated or not is the camera tilting

I agree with that, and I think any decent photographer will instinctively avoid shots that look "wrong".

Remember, Jason isn't trying to trick us here, he just framed a shot that looked good in the viewfinder - had there been some aspect to the clouds that made the view look odd, I'm sure he would have corrected it (or at least not uploaded it  Smile)

Cheers,

Colin
Colin K. Work, Pixstel
 
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JeffM
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:39 am

Sorry, but seeing that plane at that angle does look odd. Seeing an F-18 at that angle does not look odd.
 
mirage
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:14 am

When I accidentally tilt my camera while shooting, later at home I rotate the image to give it a more natural look, I'm proud of not needing this tricks to gain hits, even if I don't have a more interesting result but I know I'm being fair with me and with everybody.

Luis
 
rotor1
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:05 am

I tilted the camera on this shot, will it get rejected for bad camera angle?



Hows about this one? All I did was tilt the camera.



I'm all for tilting the camera to get dramatic effects, but the site and its operators need to take a solid stance on the issue -- can you tilt an image to produce a more dramatic photograph, or can you not? I think Jason's photo is dynomite, but as it was accepted, I'd also expect something like this NOT to be rejected for "badcameraangle":



-Mike
The best aviation photo I've ever taken was rejected by Airliners.net
 
hisham
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Ph

Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:41 am

Either allow tilted camera angles for esthetic reasons or reject them all. Using Exitrow's observation, this one is obviously tilted (I don't mean intentionally).
If those shots are to be allowed in the database, I think the photographer should mention that he tilted the camera. Otherwise some viewers will think that airliners do take-off at such angles.


Hisham.
 
LHSebi
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:52 am



What's wrong with this photo? What are you trying to say?  Laugh out loud

Sebastian

[Edited 2004-08-17 21:53:43]
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
 
ExitRow
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Ph

Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:16 am

And it's not even a rigid rotor!

That's one hell of a pilot.
 
KingWide
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:27 am

Gents,

You win. I tried to delete the photo but it doesn't seem to have gone. I will mail the boss and get him to delete it. Thanks for your time in sharing your thoughts on this thread.


J

[Edited 2004-08-17 22:29:37]
Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages
 
KingWide
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:31 am

Aha, it's gone now. Just a bit of a delay on the update of the database.


J
Jason Taperell - AirTeamImages
 
manzoori
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:16 am

That's a shame Jason... I liked the image just fine!

Rez
 Big thumbs up
Flightlineimages DOT Com Photographer & Web Editor. RR Turbines Specialist
 
[email protected]
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:52 am

what a bullshit this forum has become.
-
 
Continental
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:52 pm

What's so 'bullshitty" about it!?!?!
 
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RE: 30+ Degree Of Climb?! - Please Explain This Photo

Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:11 pm

1.) A kid not obeying the forum rules
2.) A kid being told its against the rules
3.) A kid saying "Just to lazy" to follow the usual guidelines in such a case
4.) Some people jumping into this. Even a few where you don't expect it.
5.) People asking for the original camera file which would tell you exactly nothing in this case
6.) Usually we shouldn't check for badangles but in this case with no obvious visual reference we should. It has been discussed many times. The first time in here https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/963849/
Should we delete all those type of shots from Sam, Joe, Art, Chris and all the other who did it?
7.) A absolute senseless reply with pictures (2 out of 3) which doesn't contribute anything to the thread which by the way also doesn't contribute anything to this forum.
8.) The wet dreams of some people coming through and the pic gets deleted which was totally unnecessary.
Enough bullshit?
-

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