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tappan
Topic Author
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 1999 9:30 pm

US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:17 am

A US Gov agency emailed me and probably more of you guys too regarding pics.....
If they email YOU....
CHARGE THEM.......
Stop this free crap...
THEY ARE a multi BILLION dollar agency

Mark G
 
D L X
Posts: 12875
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:18 am

What did they want pics of/for? Which agency?
 
sulman
Posts: 1966
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:09 am

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:21 am

Is this the Langley recognition project? I remember them asking a few photographers some time ago.

Cheers


James
 
Dazed767
Posts: 5010
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:55 am

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:15 am

I got the Langley one last year, just told them no.

Justin
 
tappan
Topic Author
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 1999 9:30 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:26 am

No It was NASA and they wanted the pics for free...
His follow up message to me when I informed him of a cost involved was......
"I was not expecting to pay for it."
"Thanks Anyway"
Gee, is it possible that he did end up with a free a.net photo??
Yeah, he probably offered someone a NASA pin and a "thanks for doing biz with the Gov" letter in exchange for a photo.
Brilliant.
Mark G
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:45 am

Quoting Tappan (Reply 4):
No It was NASA and they wanted the pics for free...
His follow up message to me when I informed him of a cost involved was......
"I was not expecting to pay for it."
"Thanks Anyway"
Gee, is it possible that he did end up with a free a.net photo??
Yeah, he probably offered someone a NASA pin and a "thanks for doing biz with the Gov" letter in exchange for a photo.
Brilliant.
Mark G

Hell I would do it, as long as they sent me a sample of what is was being used for. NASA isn't some company trying to make money with my shots. Besides they would probably pass any payments made to the IRS, and as far as I am concerned the less they know the better.
 
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JeffM
Posts: 7569
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RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:10 pm

Quoting Tappan (Thread starter):
THEY ARE a multi BILLION dollar agency

From taxes....

Brilliant
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:16 pm

NASA would get a freebie from me if they asked, so there's more money available for space exploration and exploitation (as well as aerospace research).
May not be much, but if enough people do it it does add up.

Can't believe the way most of the kids here are constantly thinking only about how much money they can grab from their hobby.
 
INNflight
Posts: 3527
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:11 am

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:15 pm

Quoting Tappan (Thread starter):
CHARGE THEM.......



Quoting Jwenting (Reply 7):
most of the kids

 Yeah sure  Yeah sure
 
mario340
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:01 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:36 pm

Jwenting,

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 7):
Can't believe the way most of the kids here are constantly thinking only about how much money they can grab from their hobby.

I don't see the smilies in your post! Yes, there are some kids at airliners.net. Mark is not a kid. I am not a kid as well. Why should I give a picture for free?
Photography is not for free. I have to pay a lot for my equipment, for traveling, wasting time  Wink...

Because of guys like you it's getting worse to get a good price. Thanks very much!

Mario
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:47 pm

That's called free market  Wink

Gerardo
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:52 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:22 pm

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 5):
Hell I would do it, as long as they sent me a sample of what is was being used for.

ill draw Marks attention you run and hide.
 
malandan
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:09 am

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:56 pm

Quoting Gerardo (Reply 10):
Because of guys like you it's getting worse to get a good price. Thanks very much!

Mario, my friend, I do realise that I may be flamed for these few words, but the sooner your goodself and others like you, who repeatedly harp on about the return on investment in your equipment, and continually criticise those who apparently "give it away for free", accept that there is such a thing as a free market, only then will you appreciate that to many of us, this is purely and simply a hobby.
I do not agree that true hobbyists such as myself are undermining your desire to make money from your photographic skills, but the clear facts are that quality images are now available by the bucketful, and I would suggest that this is the likely reason why commercial prices in general may be falling as you imply.
Don't get me wrong. I have sold images where the recipient will make a monetary profit, but have also exchanged them for priveliges and exposure, and have also given them to those whose only wish is to promote their interests in aircraft.
I've just "invested" in a 20D and two quality lenses. I have 2 photos taken with this camera in the database. That equates to over £1000 per image? No, just joking!
I know my wishes are in vain, but if only people could loosen up on this one, and accept the broad church that is Airliners.net.

Malcolm.
 
willo
Posts: 1331
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:21 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:01 pm

Didn't we go down this road very recently?
RE: The Cost Of Giving Away Free Use Of Images... (by Ryan h Jan 1 2006 in Aviation Photography)
 
sulman
Posts: 1966
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:09 am

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:04 pm

I'd say that if you're into aviation photography to make money, perhaps it might be time to think about your choice of markets.


Cheers


James
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:56 pm

Quoting Mario340 (Reply 9):
Photography is not for free. I have to pay a lot for my equipment, for traveling, wasting time ...

Because it's a HOBBY. If you were a professional selling your work through stock agencies you can expect to be paid and will be, but you'd hardly be posting your work here and waiting for someone to call you.
You'd be contacting potential buyers directly or through your agents.

If someone wants to use my work to make money, I ask them for a part of that money.
If someone wants it because he likes it, not to make money (and NASA doesn't make money) they can have it as long as I get credited and support their ideals (I won't give anything to Greenpeace to put on a website protesting airliner polution for example, however much they pay me for it).
 
Eduard
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 5:02 am

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting Mario340 (Reply 9):
I have to pay a lot for my equipment, for traveling, wasting time

 headache 

... if you feel wasting time with aviation photography, let it be. It's a fantastic hobby and I would be glad to have more time for it.

regards
Eduard
 
mario340
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:01 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:24 pm

Eduard,

you saw the smiley, right???
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:24 pm

Quoting Malandan (Reply 12):


Quoting Gerardo,reply=10:

Because of guys like you it's getting worse to get a good price. Thanks very much!

[...]

Care to quote the correct way? I never wrote that in your quote!!

Gerardo
 
tappan
Topic Author
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 1999 9:30 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:25 pm

JWENTING and all,
It is not easy trying to sell if you are a professional. Stock agencies and my own website are hurt by ALL of the terrific photos out there. AND I am ok with losing out to a fantastic photo. BUT....whether anyone is a "professional" or a hobbyist, when a large company pics a great photo that is free over one of my photos that might be as good NO ONE WINS except that company. Don't you see. If you are going to be "out there" in the photo market, AND if your stuff is AS GOOD or better than some of the "big boy professionals", then WHY would you want give it free?
Mark G
 
malandan
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:09 am

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:48 am

Gerado,

Hows this!

Quoting Mario340 (Reply 9):
Because of guys like you it's getting worse to get a good price. Thanks very much!

I swear I highlighted the correct text, but my apologies, the quote is indeed attributed to Mario.
Please accept my apologies.

Malcolm.
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:33 am

No worries, Malcolm! Promised!!

Was just a tad surprised to see my name along with another one's post.  Wink

Gerardo
 
User avatar
eksath
Crew
Posts: 1341
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:19 am

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:58 am

Mark,

If i charge Uncle Sam, isn't he only going to get the money back by taxing my ass ?  Smile

Suresh
p.s. NASA budget for FY 2005 was $15 billion.
 
padraighaz
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:07 pm

Quoting Tappan (Thread starter):
A US Gov agency emailed me and probably more of you guys too regarding pics.....
If they email YOU....
CHARGE THEM.......
Stop this free crap...
THEY ARE a multi BILLION dollar agency

Mark G

I bet, precisely because they ARE a government agency it would cost them an arm and a leg to requisition one photo and take months to get the paperwork sorted out.

Padraig
 
skidmarks
Posts: 6614
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:51 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:26 pm

Quoting Mario340 (Reply 9):
Photography is not for free. I have to pay a lot for my equipment, for traveling, wasting time ...

Because of guys like you it's getting worse to get a good price. Thanks very much!

Your not an amateur photographer then, like many others of us? If thats the case, why post on A.net? Why not get your own site where you can make it clear that your pictures are not for free? Where you can maybe get a return for your "investment"?

For me it's a hobby and the money I spend is for my pleasure and if I make a little on the way, then great!

Andy  old 
 
mario340
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:01 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:31 pm

Andy,

There are people who do “carpentry” as a hobby. Let’s imagine that, at a fair, a master carpenter of a workshop comes across a sample (a table or a cabinet) done by such a “hobby-carpenter” which he wants to have, should he pay for it, or not?
Would we expect the hobby-carpenter to part with his work for nothing? After all, it’s only his hobby!

Hey guys, those companies make money with our photographs!!! They mustn’t get the photos for free. There is no reason for that.

Mario
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:21 pm

Mark, I'm not going to give anything to anyone making money out of it. But I'm not here to make a buck so my prices may well be lower than those of people who do.
That's the problem for the professional.
He has to adapt to a different business environment.

The analog with a carpenter isn't quite the same. That carpenter is using wood and nails, paint maybe, all that costs money.
If I shoot a slide and give someone a scan it doesn't cost me anything on top of the money I'd have spent anyway, if the carpenter gives away that table it will cost him as he'll now have to make another one for himself.

And NASA doesn't make money, they're using that photo to maybe show people what they do. Giving them a free photo saves them having to spend your tax money to buy that photo. It therefore saves you money  Wink

Quoting Eksath (Reply 22):
If i charge Uncle Sam, isn't he only going to get the money back by taxing my ass ?

yes, twice. First you're going to pay income tax on that sale (kinda hard to hide a sale to a government agency from the government...), and then they're going to increase your tax percentages so they can buy that photo.

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 24):
For me it's a hobby and the money I spend is for my pleasure and if I make a little on the way, then great!

My attitude exactly. I've sold some, I've given some away, I've refused some. Which I do depends on who is asking and what he wants it for.
 
skidmarks
Posts: 6614
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:51 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 26):
I've sold some, I've given some away, I've refused some. Which I do depends on who is asking and what he wants it for.

Same here. And another point I would like to make is this. So many times we see threads started on here "How much should I charge?"

How much should I charge? How the hell should I know. I'm not a professional. There are no hard and fast guidlines, no set scale of charges and really, unless you ARE a professional, dealing with this on a daily basis, then it's impossible to make any sort of judgement.

I'm sorry if some think we should ALL charge whenever we are asked. But, until there are guidlines, until someone sets a realistic scale of charges and offers some sound advice other than "Your doing me out of money" then I shall continue to suck it and see.

To put matters into my own context, at this time I have allowed the use of several of my pictures - some to amateur websites, some to professional bodies, one to a German magazine (who set the payment) and a portfolio given FOC to a local airline who rewarded me with 10 free return flights.

I can actually sympathise a little with those of you who depend on selling pictures for a living, but as an amatuer I don't think any payment is necessary unless offered.

Anyway, that's my opinion, and if NASA ever want any of my pictures, then they are welcome - although what they would want pics of Euromanx Dash 8's for I couoldn't guess! Big grin

Andy  old 
 
mario340
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:01 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:18 am

Jwenting,

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 26):
The analog with a carpenter isn't quite the same. That carpenter is using wood and nails, paint maybe, all that costs money.

If you have problems with the "carpenter" let's imagine a painter and a painting...

Mario
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:23 am

OK, let's imagine a painter giving away digital photos of his paintings by sending them to people as email.
I see nothing wrong with that, if anything it's good marketing of his skills.

If he gives away the original painting he's in the same position as the carpenter giving away his table.
 
padraighaz
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 29):
OK, let's imagine a painter giving away digital photos of his paintings by sending them to people as email.
I see nothing wrong with that, if anything it's good marketing of his skills.

If he gives away the original painting he's in the same position as the carpenter giving away his table.

[Devils advocate mode: ON]

In a similar vein, why should someone feel entitled to be paid for a picture they took of some other's creativity? The photographer struggles to capture the aircraft's beauty, but the beauty wouldn't exist if the designer didn't create it in the first case. So, in some sense the photographer is freeloading off the designer and then gets upset when someone freeloads off of them?


[Devils advocate mode: OFF]

Regards,

Padraig.
 
skidmarks
Posts: 6614
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:51 pm

RE: US Gov't Agency Wants Pics/beware

Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:11 am

Padraig, you forgot the  stirthepot  smiley! Big grin

Andy  old 

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