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jorge1812
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Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:50 am

hi.
I'm right back form Saturn (www.saturn.de) market where I checked out some printers with a friend. Next to the printer there was the presentation of the TFT monitors - a wall with about 30 monitors all displaying the screen-saver.
And guess what they were displaying? 100s or 1000s of Anet pics including copyright bar and watermark. I thought how nice and took out my mobile to take a pic when staff told me it's not allowed to take pics inside. SO I asked him if they have permission to use these pics here as presentation for sale of monitors. He told me that they have permission of all photogs to use this pics. Then I told him that I doubt it and will see if one of my pics appears on the screen and then I know they have no permission.

Two minutes later I saw


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Georg Noack



I told him that this is my pic and I dislike to have it presented here with commercial background. Few minutes later I talked to the store manager and she told me they will have my pics removed but they are allowed to use the Anet DVD or something. Never heard of an Anet DVD but she didn't talked further on this issue.

Well, here are few more names which I can remember...there are many many more - sorry for misspellings.Mario

Ben Wang
Art Brett
Florian Trojer
Jeremy Isrish
Mark Garfinkel
TripJet
Karl
Peter Unmuth
Javier Guerrero
Mario Aurich
Andrew Hunt
Juan Carlos Guerra

At the moment can't remember more but watched the screen-show for 15 mins and there were 100s or 1000s.

What do you think is to do? I doubt if they have eg. 1000 pics in there they'll find mine and remove them....that would take hours. I will have an eye on them.

Georg
 
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:44 am

"Geiz ist geil" eh?

Quoting Jorge1812 (Thread starter):
Peter Unmuth

I never gave permission to them.

Thanks for bringing it up
 
mario340
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:09 am

Thanks Georg.
I will have a day-off tomorrow. Where's the store? Do you know the name of the guy he told you that about permission...?

Mario

[Edited 2006-04-28 19:11:16]
 
pepef
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:14 am

And I thought the whole point of uploading photos to A.net was for people to be able to see them on their computer screens.
(The store owner is not making any money from them, so it's not a big deal).

-Pnikof-
 
senorcarnival
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresde

Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting Pepef (Reply 3):
(The store owner is not making any money from them, so it's not a big deal).

No, but the pictures are being used as a tool to display how great the monitors they are selling are, so while in the strictest sense of the word, the store manager isn't making money from them, the entire company profits when a customer buys a monitor from Saturn because he saw Georg's pics being used to showcase TFT monitors at that store.

Now, the big question is: is it only the location that Georg visited that chose an A.net screensaver to display their monitors or was every store in the Saturn family using these images? If it was only that store, it's a smaller issue since I'm sure you could talk to the store manager to either find other pics to use or get the appropriate permission to use the shots, and move up the corporate ladder if this manager refuses to cooperate. If an entire company (and a fairly sizeable one it seems) instructs their stores to use those pics to display their monitors, then it becomes a whole different story since it doesn't seem like Saturn is a "mom and pop" operation.
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting Pepef (Reply 3):
And I thought the whole point of uploading photos to A.net was for people to be able to see them on their computer screens.
(The store owner is not making any money from them, so it's not a big deal).

 checkmark 
 
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting Senorcarnival (Reply 4):
...the pictures are being used as a tool to display how great the monitors they are selling are, ... the entire company profits when a customer buys a monitor from Saturn because he saw Georg's pics being used to showcase TFT monitors at that store

 checkmark 
 
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jorge1812
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting Mario340 (Reply 2):
Where's the store?

Dresden Reick - ODC Center.

SATURN-Markt Dresden-Reick (Strehlen) Reicker Straße 60 01219 Dresden Tel: 0351/2051-0 Fax: 0351/2051-101

Can't remember the guy, think his name was Mario too but I'm not sure.

Quoting Pepef (Reply 3):
The store owner is not making any money from them, so it's not a big deal

They use it to sell more screens - no problem but not when lying to me.

Few more names which popped up in my mind

Patrick Lutz
Thierry ducros
Yakfreak
Vasco Garcia
Chad Thomas
Craig Donahue
Daniel Werner
Tibor Mester
Dan Valentine
Xiao min

I could search the database many hours more.

Georg
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 6):
Quoting Senorcarnival (Reply 4):
...the pictures are being used as a tool to display how great the monitors they are selling are, ... the entire company profits when a customer buys a monitor from Saturn because he saw Georg's pics being used to showcase TFT monitors at that store


If a monitor is crap, people won't buy it no matter what's being displayed on.
How about seeing it the other way round; the store could just as well display the quality of the monitors with some anonymous high quality pictures but by displaying A.net pictures, people who see them might say: "Hey, cool website that displays such cool airplane pictures and some people who didn't know A.net before (even if it's difficult to believe for some A.netters such people still exist!) might visit the site and if you count it up there might even be photo sales resulting from this...

Of course lying about the usage was a bad move but why not try to see the good side of the the whole matter?

Thierry
 
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:06 am

The point is they are using it for advertisment of their products. SOmething you have to pay for usually  Wink
Peter
 
senorcarnival
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresde

Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 8):
How about seeing it the other way round; the store could just as well display the quality of the monitors with some anonymous high quality pictures but by displaying A.net pictures, people who see them might say: "Hey, cool website that displays such cool airplane pictures and some people who didn't know A.net before (even if it's difficult to believe for some A.netters such people still exist!) might visit the site and if you count it up there might even be photo sales resulting from this...

And what do you suppose the odds of that happening are?
That's not quite an even trade-off: a couple of Average Joes finding out about A.net (not your work itself, but all 900,000+ pics here) versus a store using these photographers' pictures at no cost to the store to help their bottom line.

Imagine how frustrating it must be to have your hard work snatched away so someone else can make a buck out of your pics and you getting nothing in return, other than maybe the very odd chance that this Average Joe that visited the Saturn Medishop in Dresden, Germany and saw airplane photos by Thierry Deutsch (or any of these photographers for that matter) actually went home to a.net to try to find more of this person's work.

[Edited 2006-04-28 22:47:46]
 
Jan Mogren
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 9):
The point is they are using it for advertisment of their products. SOmething you have to pay for

 yes 

/JM
 
mikephotos
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:25 am

I wonder if they'll send me a couple of free monitors to "use" if I promise to tell all of my friends who stop by my place that Saturn's are the best in the world  Wink

Mike
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting Senorcarnival (Reply 10):
And what do you suppose the odds of that happening are?

Well just as good as their chances of selling a monitor only because our A.net pictures look soooooo good on them.

Thierry
 
pepef
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:05 pm

In the strictest sense you guys are correct, of course. But if a monitor maker contacts their advertizing department about a marketing plan, I don't think it's a plausible idea to assume the answer from them would be to rip off people's photos from A.net and display them as a screensaver on said monitors.

Maybe the guy bought the DVD from eBay and thought it was legitimate? Why do you guys always have to assume the worst. None of you lot has lost any money over this.

Quoting Senorcarnival (Reply 10):
Imagine how frustrating it must be to have your hard work snatched away so someone else can make a buck out of your pics and you getting nothing in return, other than maybe the very odd chance that this Average Joe that visited the Saturn Medishop in Dresden, Germany and saw airplane photos by Thierry Deutsch (or any of these photographers for that matter) actually went home to a.net to try to find more of this person's work.

The fact that we have a few photos on display on a website doesn't make us any better than other people. The average Joe's are the best people in this world and the people you show your photos to on this website after the " hard work" of taking them in the firstplace.

-Pepef-
 
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Fly-K
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:39 pm

Quoting Pepef (Reply 14):
Maybe the guy bought the DVD from eBay

Are there illegal a.net DVDs for sale on ebay...?
 
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jorge1812
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:20 pm

Quoting Fly-K (Reply 15):
Are there illegal a.net DVDs for sale on ebay...?

Something like this might happen from time to time.

Quoting Pepef (Reply 14):
Maybe the guy bought the DVD from eBay and thought it was legitimate? Why do you guys always have to assume the worst.

Can be, but he and the store manager knew Anet very well as a public photo database.

Quoting Pepef (Reply 14):
None of you lot has lost any money over this.

That's correct, but normally a thing were we could've got some money from even if I doubt that Saturn would pay 100s of photogs for that.

Georg
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:33 am

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 16):
That's correct, but normally a thing were we could've got some money from even if I doubt that Saturn would pay 100s of photogs for that.

That kind of stores wouldn´t pay for such a useage; either they get it for free or they pull them. So for the photographers it´s a no win situation in any way.
That´s why I think one could just as well leave them display the pictures; it doesn´t really hurt anyone and it´s a free ad for airliners.net.

Thierry
 
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jorge1812
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 17):
That kind of stores wouldn´t pay for such a useage; either they get it for free or they pull them. So for the photographers it´s a no win situation in any way.

My words.

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 17):
That´s why I think one could just as well leave them display the pictures; it doesn´t really hurt anyone and it´s a free ad for airliners.net.

Doubt that even if 1000 people see that pics with Airliners.net in the copyright bar they'll visit Anet or recognise them as that what it is.

Georg
 
LH526
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 17):

That kind of stores wouldn�t pay for such a useage; either they get it for free or they pull them. So for the photographers it�s a no win situation in any way.

They wouldn't pay in the first place ... but now they 'de facto' commitet the crime of illegaly using photos for advertising reasons. So it's their fault ... making them pay is another thing Sad

Mario
LH526
 
INNflight
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Mon May 01, 2006 6:29 am

Just spent the weekend up in the closer area of Dresden, and now that I am back home I have to find out that a store there uses photos of mine?  boggled 

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 17):
it´s a free ad for airliners.net.

Who cares? I for sure don't.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Mon May 01, 2006 7:15 am

I'm kind of in 2 minds over this, sure I don't like the use of my IP without compensation(some may call it theft) but we place our photos here on A.net to show to the world yet when someone displays them to an audience greater than would be normal in his/her home living room we get all agitated.
There is one sure fire, 100% guaranteed way to not have your "hard work" exploited in this fashion. Email the site management and have your photos removed from the db.
That is unacceptable because potential "buyers" of your work will not see them... Oh yeah those of you using A.net as free stock agency will miss out. How about paying A.net the 20-30-50%+ that a stock agency may charge in commisions for handling your photos, then perhaps A.net could lower those Premium and First Class subscriptions!
I doubt it, unlikely that 50% commission on all the professional photo sales made from the A.net db would make a big impact on the subscription revenue.

If someone is selling CD/DVD copies of the db then that is something the management need to address if it concerns them deeply.

Cheers

[Edited 2006-05-01 00:39:40]
 
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jorge1812
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Mon May 01, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting INNflight (Reply 20):
Just spent the weekend up in the closer area of Dresden

Did you spent some time at the airport?

Quoting Mario340 (Reply 2):

have you been there? What turned out?

Georg
 
mario340
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Mon May 01, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 22):
have you been there? What turned out?

I've been there. It was funny. I asked a "Saturn-guy" if he could show me some tft screens, maybe with some good pictures on the screen so I can compare before I buy...  Smile He said he's not sure if he's allowed to show me some pictures because of a guy (Georg) who came to the store yesterday and was very surprised to see his own pictures there...

Sorry, later more. I have to work now. Greetings from 36.000 feet. I'm on the way to DEL right now...

Mario
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Mon May 01, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting INNflight (Reply 20):
Who cares? I for sure don't.

I still don't really get it. I mean what are you guys worried about with that store displaying some nice A.net pictures!?  Confused
They won't sell a single of those monitors only because A.net pictures look so nicely on them, they did not REALLY infrige any copyright as they left the A.net copyright bar on the pictures, no photographer here has suffered any physical or psychological ( at least I hope so  boggled  ) harm and instead of showing some wanna-be-art-pictures this store made the good decision of showing some really nice airplane pictures on their screens.
And if all this hassle is just a matter of forcing some principles I guess some people need to relax a little bit; aren't you the ones who always say that airplane photography should be all about fun!?  Smile

Thierry
 
pepef
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Mon May 01, 2006 5:00 pm

Do most of A.nets photographers looking to buy a new monitor just stare at the Windows background screen in a store, in fear of infringing some photographers potential copyright and earning issues?

"I like what I've seen so far, I'll make my final decision when a new version of Windows comes out, so I can check how that new background looks on the screen".

Anyway, looks like they did the right thing so everyone can return to DEFCON 3 ( Increase in force readiness above normal readiness ) until the next alarm is sounded...

Quoting Mario340 (Reply 23):
He said he's not sure if he's allowed to show me some pictures because of a guy (Georg) who came to the store yesterday and was very surprised to see his own pictures there...

-Pepef- Big grin
 
INNflight
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Mon May 01, 2006 5:28 pm

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 22):
Quoting INNflight (Reply 20):
Just spent the weekend up in the closer area of Dresden

Did you spent some time at the airport?

Nope, sports only.  Smile

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 24):
I still don't really get it.

I'm not worried at all, I just pointed out I don't care whether these are free ads for A.net or not.
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Mon May 01, 2006 7:09 pm

Quoting INNflight (Reply 26):
I'm not worried at all, I just pointed out I don't care whether these are free ads for A.net or not.

Oook!? But then what do you care about on this matter?  Confused  Confused

Thierry
 
Dazed767
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Tue May 02, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 16):
Are there illegal a.net DVDs for sale on ebay...?

This clown was using my AF 747 SXM shot to advertise his "DVD". He removed it, but I've been keeping an eye on him.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AEROPLANE-HELI...categoryZ72205QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm almost tempted to order one to see what is on there......

[Edited 2006-05-02 02:51:06]
 
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Wed May 03, 2006 1:40 pm

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 27):
But then what do you care about on this matter?

Maybe about photo usage for advertisment by a company without asking before?  Wink
 
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ThierryD
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Wed May 03, 2006 3:43 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 29):
Maybe about photo usage for advertisment by a company without asking before?

Ah ok, well I still don't see it that way but then again it would be boring if we all agreed on everything  Wink
Flo sometimes speaks in riddles  Confused

Thierry
 
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jorge1812
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Tue May 09, 2006 12:51 pm

Have been there 2 times since I saw the pics and they didn't show any single pic on the screens. Maybe Mario can tell a bit more about his visit.

Georg
 
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jorge1812
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Tue May 09, 2006 12:52 pm

Have been there 2 times since I saw the pics and they didn't show any single pic on the screens. Maybe Mario can tell a bit more about his visit.

Georg
 
mario340
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Mon May 15, 2006 6:33 am

Sorry about the late answer. I'm very busy these days.
As I metioned before I went to the store and asked for some high quality pictures on the screens. They told me they are

Quoting Mario340 (Reply 23):
not sure if he's allowed to show me some pictures because of a guy (Georg) who came to the store yesterday and was very surprised to see his own pictures there...

 Smile
At the front desk I asked for the manager just to make things clear. She was very polite and appologized for their mistake. She explained that one of the employees found it a nice idea to put a privat DVD in the computer. He didn't worry about copyright. She also told me that they are not interested at all to show copyrighted pictures on their screens again, even with permission. It's just too dangerous for them. That was it. No high quality pictures on screens in a Saturn Shop in Dresden anymore.  Wink

Mario

p.s. poor guy with his idea to bring a DVD to his workplace.  worried 
 
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jorge1812
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Mon May 15, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting Mario340 (Reply 33):

Have been there yesterday and they showd pics of bridges and trains....but it wasn't railwaypictures.net  Wink

Georg
 
Stealthz
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Mon May 15, 2006 7:45 am

Hi all,

Quoting Mario340 (Reply 33):
No high quality pictures on screens in a Saturn Shop in Dresden anymore.

And this is great news!!.. How?
I spent more than an hour in a local computer store this past Saturday looking at monitors to determine what may replace my 17" Trinitron when it finally dies.
What did I use to compare them.. some camera review/test photos from DPreview and some A.net photos(don't get alarmed guys they were mine), if I am unable to look at images of known standard how am I to choose?
Oh, what happened in that hour that A.net was displayed on about 8 screens? 2 of the staff members and at least 4 other customers discovered Airliners.net and said they would be looking it up when they got home(2 wrote down the URL so they would get it right), sounds like a win for Airliners.net and the contributors to me.
I forgot to remind them to not look at images by Georg, Mario, Peter, Jan, Mike et al as they would not like anyone to find out about A.net in "public" place.

Good work guys for your "Positive" efforts in Dresden!!

cheers

Chris
 
mario340
Posts: 112
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RE: Our All Pics Used By Saturn Medishop In Dresden

Mon May 15, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 35):
And this is great news!!.. How?

Nobody said that!!!
I asked the manager of the store if they are interested in showing some really good pictures. Just do it the official way... But they are not interested at all as it is too dangerous for them. I do understand their point. But I don't understand your point Chris.

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 35):
I forgot to remind them to not look at images by Georg, Mario, Peter, Jan, Mike et al as they would not like anyone to find out about A.net in "public" place.

This is childish...

Mario

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