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icebird757
Posts: 423
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 7:53 pm

RE: Done Uploading!

Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:04 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 90):
If you think a graceful exit is refusing to upload anymore and accusing this site of poor practices then go right ahead. It seems like sour grapes to me. If you want to make a graceful exit you could have done so without the usual "this site is bad for the hobby" stuff.

Thanks for the laugh! Do you have anything positive to say?
I kick chocks
 
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linco22
Posts: 1297
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:16 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:04 pm

Quoting Tappan (Reply 98):
And we all look forward to Johan turning the site pink for April Fool's Day

Mark I can genuinely say I thought it was pink for good!

Regards
Colin  Smile
 
Tbird
Posts: 801
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:09 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:08 pm

Mike I was shocked to read this post and I'm truly going to miss you're pictures. It was fantastic meeting you last year when Phil (Phil Derner) and I came out to LAX to spot. Even though we were only out there a short time based on our conversations at Imperial Hill and that night at Proud Bird I'm rather convinced and saddened that your reasons carry much weight behind them. You've been an amazing contributed to this site and for the hobby in general.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 19451
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Done Uploading!

Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:30 pm

I think one of the problems here is that when the photographers ask a straight question, seeking clarification on an issue, they often don't get an answer.

The dreaded manipulation question is a classic example. There have been at least two threads on this specific topic, but in neither is there a straight answer from the screening crew.

https://www.airliners.net/discussions...ation_photography/read.main/181458
https://www.airliners.net/discussions...ation_photography/read.main/246222
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13903
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting AussieAviator (Reply 91):
Quoting QANTAS077:
do us all a favour and heed your own counsel...

I actually agree with Monty on this one. Whether you feel one way about the screening or another if you choose to leave then just leave. There is no reason to start with parting shots and to attack the screening. You all have to remember that this is not a Democracy. This site hosts our shots for free and you get very good exposure.

Quoting Linco22 (Reply 93):
Maybe in your case. My last few experiences got me no further with my image. I appeal, I ask why and what to do.

Well remember the appeal function is simply to have another set of eyes look at the pic to make sure it got a fair shake. If you are looking for advice on the pic just post it here, there are more than many guys here that can tell you what you need to do.

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 94):
Now i understand where you are coming from

Be careful what you take out of context, that was from Rudy's speech at a firefighters funeral after 9/11.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
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linco22
Posts: 1297
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:16 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:55 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 104):
If you are looking for advice on the pic just post it here, there are more than many guys here that can tell you what you need to do

I felt at the time that I would appeal before that but I understand what you mean

Regards
Colin  Smile
 
C133
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:09 am

You won't find better quality aviation images than those taken by Mike Carter, and if he's too frustrated with the process here to continue uploading, it does not bode well for the site.

The subject is not new, but I think the withdrawal of a photographer of Mike's caliber is. The trend is not good.

Terry
Fine: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: Fine for doing well.
 
TransIsland
Posts: 1826
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:22 pm

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:17 am

I'm not sure what caused a photographer who had 8 photos accepted within the last week to be this frustrated, but I'm sad that I won't be able to enjoy Mike's pictures any longer.

Basically, I can sympathise with him though. I also feel that screening is inconsistent and that sometimes feedback is lacking. My acceptance ratio has dropped from 80% in May to 40% in June (motiv being one of the main reasons), and after some inactivity on my part (too busy living to be out spotting) is now at 42% (although I had 6 out of my last 7 uploads accepted).

One thing that still has me baffled is this example not bashing the photo or the photographer, in fact I like it very much, as did many others for it made top of the day.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrew Hunt - AirTeamImages



The same day I had this photo rejected for motiv:



What's the big diff?
I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
 
Danny
Posts: 3752
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:22 am

It is said to see another long time uploader and respectable photographer go. I'm afraid that unless something is done about inconsistency here there will be more photographers to take this decision.

I know that screening will always be subjective and some inconsistency is unavoidable but i my opinion (and judging by this and threads not only mine) the inconsistency is at its highest ever. I believe that things started to go in wrong direction since Johan gave up screening appeals. It was some kind of oversight that screening process need.
 
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ThierryD
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:55 am

A small addendum to my statement about the site going commercial (Reply 13):
in fact I think it already is commercial; basics: we upload photos for free onto a (site) server provided and maintained by Johan and we both make money with it from visiting customers. In addition we have ads and a store and some other features from which to make money of. And given the exposure the site has I'd guess that the daily income isn't bad at all.
So again basically seen: Johan is making good money with our photos! Cause without our photos nobody would visit the site and Johan would earn a big 0 (ZERO) (as he doesn't shoot planes himself  Wink). That's the way it is and if that's not commercial, in the future I'll only photograph Santa Claus has he flies by with his reindeers.
I've no problem with that state however but I do have a problem with the way it is handled: trying to make us believe that it's all just fun and that it's a site only intended to showcase our photos and than on the other side raising acceptance standards so high that they can almost only be achieved with (semi-)professional equipment and much time is just an unfair attitude.
And then I'll already come to the main subject: treatment of the contributors!
As a contributor to a commercial site I'd like to be treated accordingly, meaning a set of clearly understandable rules which are equal for everyone and are followed consistently with exceptions being explained so that any other contributor knows where he and the site is at.
And while I'm at the explaining stuff: more thourough feedback from what I formerly called "the major players" (let's just say A.net crew!) is required.
We have some regular forum contributors like Tim, Royal, Glenn and Eduard and though we may not always be on the same wave-length I attach importance to their posts; but on the other hand where are the other 26 screeners and foremost Johan!?  Confused
Now to some other points:

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 60):
Until it turns into a commercial and profit-making organisation, with screeners paid to do that job, then we have to accept that things may not always be done as we would like it to.

Screeners don't have to be paid only for the site to be commercial and make profit! Commercial guarantees even less that things are done the way YOU want them to be done!

Quoting DB777 (Reply 61):
At one point in time this site could have totally dominated the aviation photography on the internet but so many people got ticked off with inconsistent rejections they went elsewhere and I'm talking about a variety of sites that one can easily find through Google searches.

 checkmark 

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 65):
We photograph aeroplanes outside, in the weather, in the wind, in the heat and cold, mostly at some distance, distances that would have most photographers quivering in fear at the hopelessness of it. Perhaps we are nearing the limit of what can be acheived with current technology.

 checkmark 

Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 70):
Anyway, as I said before, we can't do anything about it without examples.

Well again with all due respect Tim, but I've shown examples a dozen times (forum AND private mail) to clarify some inconsistency but with absolutely no feedback from the crew at all, so at some point I guess one just stops even considering to do so.

So long for now; I'll take some time and post a few improvement ideas in the "The Process Of Screening Debate" thread.

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:06 am

I started reading and thought that for once, people could give their regards to Mike and be cool, but it turned into a bitch-fest anyway.

It's a shame that Mike made his decision. I admit I've been confused by some rejections as of late, but I also know that I scrutinize my own photos more than any screener ever has.

Disagreements happens, but I'm glad I'll still get to enjoy Mike's shots that do already exist in the datbase. Although I can really only speak for myself, I know that the NYC folks have a lot of love for Mike!

-Phil
Phil Derner Jr.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13903
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting Icebird757 (Reply 100):
Thanks for the laugh! Do you have anything positive to say?

Yes I do but the majority of people would rather jump on this bandwagon and try to exploit the notion that this site will fail because it rejects a picture or two from a very popular photographer. Then when he takes his exit we are supposed to all sound the alarm that this site is bad for av-photography and is screening picrtures strictly with money in mind. Which we all know deep down to be total nonsense. Everyone from a newbie to Sam Chui gets photos rejected. Deal with it or leave, just do it with some degree of grace. There is no need to constantly point fingers and make these claims about the screeners. All of which are good photogs and people loyal to the hobby as well as Mike is.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
ryangooner
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:03 am

There was a time that chatting about Anet "in the field" with fellow photog's was a pleasure...

During the recent months "in the field" there are many a photog chatting about how down hill it is felt that this site has gone and its sad to say this topic is being discussed with everyone i have met...

Anet please fix this problem so we revert back to the old pleasurable discussions whilst "in the field" doing what we love best.

Ryan Hemmings
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13903
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting Ryangooner (Reply 112):
During the recent months "in the field" there are many a photog chatting about how down hill it is felt that this site has gone and its sad to say this topic is being discussed with everyone i have met...

You need to meet some different people. There are just as many people to shoot with that don't feel this way as there is the nay sayers. I myself am sick of people that are constantly saying the "anet is bad for the hobby" and "I shoot for myself" Yet they upload here constantly, not to hypocritcal huh?
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
cosec59
Posts: 2618
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:59 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 113):
You need to meet some different people.

No he doesn't!!!.
I hear it too and I ain't gonna change the people I associate with just to keep you happy.

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 49):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 42):
Take your pics and be on your way, good luck. It's not anger or hostility, it's just tiring to hear this crap all the time.

Take you unconstructive posts and be on your way, It's just tiring to read this crap all the time.

Some good advice for you there NIKV69
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13903
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 114):
No he doesn't!!!.
I hear it too and I ain't gonna change the people I associate with just to keep you happy.

Fine but like I said all your buddies that you associate with upload here so they are just as hypocritical as the rest. If you don't like the site or the the way pics get screened why are you here?
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
cosec59
Posts: 2618
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:59 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 115):
why are you here?

I enjoy a good laugh at your ramblings
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
Alex22
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:56 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting Ryangooner (Reply 112):
During the recent months "in the field" there are many a photog chatting about how down hill it is felt that this site has gone and its sad to say this topic is being discussed with everyone i have met...

I had the same experience numerous times those last, let's say 6 months. More and more photographers feel like it's useless to put their picture here anymore. I have to admit that I understand them more and more. My acceptance ratio hasn't change much but Inconsistency is there. And if A.net does nothing to improve it you'll see more and more great photographers leaving. I don't care much about my rejections here 'cause like many others, my pics are online in other database out there...
But...

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 109):
We have some regular forum contributors like Tim, Royal, Glenn and Eduard and though we may not always be on the same wave-length I attach importance to their posts; but on the other hand where are the other 26 screeners and foremost Johan!?

This is a huge point for me... I feel like most of the times we feel like A.net doesnt give a s... about us. Just a small exemple... on this threat Picture Of Accident... Lack Of Respect? (by Alex22 Sep 11 2006 in Aviation Photography)
I was asking why a particular shot got accepted with priority screening and how could such a sensitive, bad quality pic get accepted. What do I get as answers ??? some great post by fellow photographers but only 1 (!!!!) screener takes the time to answer to a threat that had been read by more than 1400 people....
Yes A.net was great, and still is for some points. I've met Great friends thrue A.net and always be thankful for that... But does the crew realise how much people are getting tired of this ? I think this threat shows it pretty well.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 113):
You need to meet some different people.

What ??? we should change our friends because of what they think of A.net ??? A.net is not the center of the world. At least not of mine...

One last thing. Michael, It's really sad to see you go... I really hope that we'll still have the chance to see your great pictures, even if it's not on A.net. You have been a great inspiration for a lot of us. For that I just wanna say thank you.

Cheers
Alex
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6796
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:16 am

Perhaps a new thread with constructive help would be better, rather than the Anet universe vs Nik match right now.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
ryangooner
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Done Uploading!

Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:18 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 113):
You need to meet some different people.

How do you propose i go about this?!! issue an Anet survey before i speak to anyone?!

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 113):
"anet is bad for the hobby" and "I shoot for myself" Yet they upload here constantly, not to hypocritcal huh?

Where in my post did i mention Anet is bad for the hobby? Anet will not stop us taking photo's!, I just mentioned that it is the topic of discussion.

Please dont misquote....

Ryan
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!

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