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frippe
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Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:52 pm

Hello again,

Let me ask a couple of question about the issue of COLORFUL versus OTHER PAINT. I am at present totally confused.

1. Has the problem been solved officially in a thread I have missed? If so my sincerest apologies for not being in the forum so often lately.

2. If not, are the guidelines in the following thread still valid?
Categories "Special" And "Hybrid" (by Invader Jan 19 2006 in Aviation Photography)

3. If still valid, how come that EI-DAO is rejected when uploaded as COLORFUL and then rejected once again on appeal?

For your information, here is a new edit of EI-DAO, now in the queue as Hybrid/Special, which will hopefully turn out as OTHER PAINT.
https://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/EIDAO8666nefAFTER.jpg

But the Cross Data Search shows that EI-DAO is added as
OTHER
and
OTHER PAINT
and
COLORFUL PAINT

My first thread in this matter is here, mistakenly in Site Related:

RE: Colorful Paint No Longer? (by Jaspike Nov 5 2006 in Site Related)?searchid=55860&s=Colorful#ID55860

Please notice, I am not at all angry, I only want to know for the future, since so many Ryanair-planes have extra stickers added.

Thanks in advance,
Frippe

[Edited 2006-11-05 15:11:29]

[Edited 2006-11-05 15:11:57]
 
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting Frippe (Thread starter):
3. If still valid, how come that EI-DAO is rejected when uploaded as COLORFUL and then rejected once again on appeal?

If it was rejected for category only you should try an appeal. COLORFUL is correct for this plane.
-
 
frippe
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:46 am

Hello,
Thanks for your support. But I have already appealed and without success. And as far as I could understand the letters of rejection CATEGORY was the only reason.
Frippe
 
Psych
Posts: 3008
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:17 am

RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:57 am

It has now been nearly 11 months since Peter's initial thread 'clarifying' this persistent problem with these livery categories. Many of us at the time questioned whether the proposed changes in fact made it easier for confused photographers - who were often struggling to work out how they should upload certain types of photos - and viewers wishing to search for particular kinds of images.

What has become very clear over the intervening months is that we have been unable to reach a position where all involved in running the site are of one mind on this issue. In short, an area well known in this community for creating uncertainty and confusion remains unresolved after all this time. There are many examples of this, not least the fact the the 'help' menus in the uploading process continue not to reflect the supposed changes to these rules.

I am sure I am not alone in hoping that the various 'camps' within the crew can resolve any differences they have on this matter. In the meantime, I would like to think that photographers would not be caught in the middle of this uncertainty. In this case it appears that Frippe has been, and his acceptance ratio is now 4% worse off for that. To me that does not seem right.

Let's hope that this can be resolved soon, as it does not reflect well on the site.

All the best.

Paul
 
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Frippe (Reply 2):
But I have already appealed and without success.

 banghead   banghead 

Quoting Psych (Reply 3):
not least the fact the the 'help' menus in the uploading process continue not to reflect the supposed changes to these rules.

 checkmark 

Maybe it would be the best if all screeners and headscreeners could ignore any "wrong" categories until the help texts have been finally updated.
Wrong means if one of the two categories is selected then it should be ok if non is selected then its a category reject. Highly unfair against the uploaders as it is now.
-
 
frippe
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Posts: 194
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:48 am

Hello again,

Thanks for your input so far.

I have tonight browsed through some of the latest additions of Ryanair photos of planes with some kind or another of extra texts on the fuselage.

EI-DAF
EI-DAI
EI-DAJ
EI-CTB

The result is telling. During the autumn of 2005 and winter of 2006 nearly all photos (as shown in the Cross Data Search) were added as COLORFUL (Special ticked on the second upload page, then)

During summer this year you often find them added as OTHER PAINT instead, and during this autumn some are just added as OTHER. (May be a mistake and thus not much to talk about.)

Please, read this not as another bashing of the hardworking screening team. I just can not understand this change. Have the uploaders slowly gone back to the old system (as the help texts are not revised)? And why is it that the screening has allowed this change?

Thanks in advance again for any kind of clarification,
Frippe
 
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jorge1812
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:14 pm

Am I correct that OTHER only is just the airline category - Airline or Other?

Georg
 
frippe
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:32 am

Hello again,

I just happened to notice that also EI-DCD is marked with the same text and logo PRIDE OF SCOTLAND.

Almost all photos of EI-DCD, when checked in the Cross Data Search, are marked COLORFUL. The relevant exception was added during this summer as OTHER PAINT.

I still wonder why this has happened? Or have I missed some important information, causing me unwanted rejections?

Frippe

PS

Yes, Georg, I think you are wright about what OTHER stands for.
 
Jaspike
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:40 pm

RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting Frippe (Reply 5):
The result is telling. During the autumn of 2005 and winter of 2006 nearly all photos (as shown in the Cross Data Search) were added as COLORFUL (Special ticked on the second upload page, then)

During summer this year you often find them added as OTHER PAINT instead, and during this autumn some are just added as OTHER. (May be a mistake and thus not much to talk about.)

Ryanair was one of the airlines I looked after while I was a database editor. It looks as though it hasn't had so much attention since I left the crew  Wink

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 6):
Am I correct that OTHER only is just the airline category - Airline or Other?

Yep  Smile

Tom
 
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:21 pm

Very interesting crew reactions so far.  devil 
-
 
frippe
Topic Author
Posts: 194
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:11 am

Hello again,

And please call me stubborn if you like.
But this afternoon I entertained myself  Smile with checking how the photos of EI-CSI are uploaded.

This aircraft is adorned with two German Flags plus the text Frankfurt Hahn. (But only on the port side, to complicate matters  Smile when uploading photos of the starboard side where nothing special is visible...)

From the start most of the photos came as COLORFUL but you find more and more of them as plain OTHERS, one as only DARK and then one as OTHER_PAINT.

I understand this is a difficult problem for uploaders and screeners, but is it really impossible to have things sorted out?

Best wished from
Frippe, still just as confused now as before...
 Confused
 
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jorge1812
Posts: 2914
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:10 am

Making me thinking about Easyjets [email protected] Jet havin the titles only on one side....how to upload if picture shows the other side.

Georg
 
frippe
Topic Author
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:37 am

Hello again,

Tonight I checked the status for EI-CSZ which as you may know has the text ARRIVEDERCI ALITALIA plus an extra Italian flag.

Every photo until recently except one is uploaded as COLORFUL when it shows the port side with the text. (And all others like cabin or starboard ones are OTHERS.)

But here comes the problem -- the latest one uploaded in October 2006 is labelled OTHER_PAINT.

How can this happen all of a sudden? I would love to hear a good explanation,
Frippe
 
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:24 pm

Quoting Frippe (Reply 12):
How can this happen all of a sudden? I would love to hear a good explanation,

Just guessing here

  • categories being ignored during screening in favour for the uploader(thinking let the editors sort this mess out afterwards) because the definition is still not clearly described on the upload confirmation page. Just in some thread being somewhere in the unsearchable Forum archives.
  • categories being overseen by the screeners (not intentionally i might add). Errors can only happen where work is done and they are all humans.

And yes planes with special paint only on one side are an additional problem. OM-SEG is also such a case.
Such issues might need clarificaton from the editors also.

[Edited 2006-11-09 10:27:23]

[Edited 2006-11-09 10:27:52]
-
 
frippe
Topic Author
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:00 pm

Hello,
Nice example you posted here of OM-SEG. Even there I notice that not all photos of the port side girl are added as COLORFUL.

But in both case A and B above I can not accept that uploaders have photos rejected, even on appeal, for CATEGORY.

Frippe
 
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting Frippe (Reply 14):
But in both case A and B above I can not accept that uploaders have photos rejected, even on appeal, for CATEGORY

 checkmark 
At least the appeal should have been accepted as it was clearly in the correct category.
-
 
frippe
Topic Author
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:36 am

Hello again,

Tonight I had a closer look in the Cross Data Search for some of SkyEurope Airlines Boeings.

OM-SEG shows the beautiful face of Tatjana and as far as I could see every single photo of this aircraft is marked COLORFUl but not the latest one, added 11 nov 2006 which is marked OTHER_PAINT.

Why is this happening? Have I missed some important information? Or have the screening team decided not to follow Invaders thread from January 2006?

OM-NGA shows another girl's face and the story is almost the same - one of the latest photos, added mid October, is OTHER_PAINT and the others are COLORFUL.

This is terribly frustrating if you are an uploader wanting to avoid unnecessary rejections.

And still no official answer. I also wrote to the head-screeners three days ago, humbly asking for clarification, but I will give them another week or so to answer. In the meantime I will not upload anything doubtful,
Frippe
 
Psych
Posts: 3008
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:17 am

RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:10 pm

Quoting Psych (Reply 3):
Let's hope that this can be resolved soon, as it does not reflect well on the site.

Nor does the complete absence of any attempt to help Frippe and others make any sense of what is the correct thing to do in such circumstances.

Frippe is such a gentleman and a wholly supportive and positive contributor to this community. He deserves better than this.........  banghead 

I find the reluctance of anyone to appear here and discuss this matter disturbing and disrespectful of him and his dilemma.

I would strongly encourage some resolution of this matter, or at least some words of clarification to ease the tension.

Paul
 
Jaspike
Posts: 4843
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:39 pm

Quoting Frippe (Reply 16):
OM-SEG shows the beautiful face of Tatjana and as far as I could see every single photo of this aircraft is marked COLORFUl but not the latest one, added 11 nov 2006 which is marked OTHER_PAINT.



Quoting Frippe (Reply 16):

OM-NGA shows another girl's face and the story is almost the same - one of the latest photos, added mid October, is OTHER_PAINT and the others are COLORFUL.

Those are both meant to be COLORFUL.

It looks like the photog doesn't understand the rules in these cases, and the screeners have let it through.. Which is what should happen (I think) because the reject for category alone is a bit harsh. Especially when there is confusion over the rules. That itself confuses me, because only a few small changes were made to the rules in Peter V's thread, and the examples in this thread (Ryanair, SkyEurope) are blatantly COLORFUL_PAINT, and always have been.

Tom
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:51 pm

I can't understand why this is so hard to fix. The slide shooters has been able to make this easy for soooo long.

/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:51 pm

Quoting Jan Mogren (Reply 19):
I can't understand why this is so hard to fix.

I think nobody can understand this.
-
 
Invader
Posts: 289
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:06 am

Because there was a lot of discussion, both within and outside the crew, on this complicated and controversial subject, the final implementation was postponed to see if something better would come up. An agreement had not yet been reached however, and then other priorities took over.

But I have now brought this up again within the crew and we will try to come to a final convention.

Please have some patience and I hope that I can announce something in the not too distant future.

Regards,
Peter Vercruijsse
Chief Database Editor
 
Psych
Posts: 3008
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:17 am

RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:22 am

I, for one, am very grateful to you Peter for coming up here to explain what is going on behind the scenes. Many thanks for that.

I shall look forward to reading what is ultimately proposed to resolve this tricky area.

Paul
 
frippe
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RE: Colorful Paint, Chapter 2

Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:13 am

Hello again,

And many thanks to all of you giving me support. I needed it!
And of course also very much to Peter for coming here and promising clarification.

In the meantime the photo of the Ryanair EI-DAO, that started all this for me, was tonight accepted:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fride Jansson



It is now added as OTHER_PAINT and I have to accept that so far.
Best wishes to you all,
Frippe

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