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bruin787
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:56 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:33 pm

just a question...

is there anything in the current TOU that says they must give you a certain time frame before implementing changes to the TOU? I'm just wondering what prevented DM from making the changes immediately.

While the photographic community on this board is angry, I don't really think DM will see a need to change the terms of use, no matter how apologetic "crew" is. We have less than 200 photographer's posting here, 200 of the best Airliners has, but only 200 out of over 14,000 who probably don't know or fully understand what's about to happen.

[Edited 2008-02-10 10:34:43]
http://taxiwayalpha.blogspot.com
 
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Tonimr
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 4:32 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:43 pm



Quoting Lennymuir (Reply 249):
I've been sharing e-mails with a few a.net buddies today who have read this chaos but
haven't, can't or won't post on this thread for whatever reason
(and personal reasons)

If the 'Terms' are not amended significantly, and quickly, many thousands
more photographs, and I mean these guys are big hitters, will be lost.

They are just a 'click' away from extinction.

Gerry

The same from my part... mostly, but not only, from Spanish photographers.

We're totalling many thousand photos and roughly twenty million visits.
There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
 
JRadier
Posts: 3957
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:50 pm



Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 214):
Cannot stress this enough: A.net will not take your copyrights in any way. Our GM has clearly said so.

Tim, not regarding how much I would like to believe that I just can't at this moment. This is a see first/believe second deal now.
 
skyliner
Posts: 203
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 4:07 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:50 pm

I've sent the following in reply to the e-mail message that I received from DM:

I have reviewed the proposed terms of use, and they are not acceptable. In particular, paragraph 5.B. needs to be eliminated in its entirety. I invite your consideration, and will look forward to hearing from you.


Note that there are no "I'll take my stuff and leave" threats here; I'm telling them that I don't like what they've prroposed, and offerred the opportunity for them to propose something better. I'd suggest that others do the same/similar, and not wait for DM to 'respond' this coming week. They should hear directly from the photographers -- the lifeblood of the site -- that there are problems, and that they are serious.

George
 
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vishaljo
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:54 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:51 pm



Quoting Dimage (Reply 225):
what about photograpers like Air Nikon or Frank Schaefer who can't descide themselfes if they agree to the new termes?

Craig Murray is handling Frank Schaefer's works. He knows about what's currently going on.
 
paulinbna
Posts: 1046
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 1:18 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:51 pm



Quoting Tonimr (Reply 256):
've been sharing e-mails with a few a.net buddies today who have read this chaos but
haven't, can't or won't post on this thread for whatever reason
(and personal reasons)

If the 'Terms' are not amended significantly, and quickly, many thousands
more photographs, and I mean these guys are big hitters, will be lost.

They are just a 'click' away from extinction.

The same thing from most of the photographers associated with Nashville.
Canon 50D user; 100-400 MM L IS 10-22 MM, 60MM Macro
 
phbfa
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:17 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:54 pm

Quoting Lennymuir (Reply 249):
ve been sharing e-mails with a few a.net buddies today who have read this chaos but
haven't, can't or won't post on this thread for whatever reason
(and personal reasons)

If the 'Terms' are not amended significantly, and quickly, many thousands
more photographs, and I mean these guys are big hitters, will be lost.

They are just a 'click' away from extinction.

Same thing from many Brazilian photographers including myself, summing up thousands of pictures and millions of views.

Bernardo

[Edited 2008-02-10 10:56:59]

[Edited 2008-02-10 10:57:35]
Faire le ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre est impossible sans le Concorde.
 
Gunships
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 11:32 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:02 pm



Quoting Deeplight (Reply 129):
I'm available all day tomorrow as well.

The silence is deafening.

Quoting Flyheligirl (Reply 47):
we have 4 weeks to address any questions to the fullest.

Anyone else imagine an answer planned for 3 weeks, six days, 23 hours, and 59 seconds from now?

Although I'm not a photographer, I fully support the actions of those who are not just standing by while that which is rightfully theirs is taken away.

The input from the moderators is also less than I would expect. The "blind faith" pep talks and cheerleading seems to be diminishing. It hasn't gone unnoticed. Or unnappreciated.


 twocents 
 
DeltaAVL
Posts: 1526
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:15 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:03 pm

I'm gonna be rational here - I don't think photographers need to remove their photos. Yet. Hopefully we'll see a significant change in the next few days that reassures us all.

I don't know about everyone else, but I've got a pretty strong favor toward Airliners.net over JetPhotos.net, and to see them benefit over something such as this is just sickening. To maintain the lead in the aviation photography community, Demand Media needs to be at the top of their game - all the time.
 
Fly747
Posts: 1361
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:03 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:08 pm



Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 263):
I don't know about everyone else, but I've got a pretty strong favor toward Airliners.net over JetPhotos.net

That's how I have felt for the longest time, but the dishonesty from DM and thinking everybody is stupid is insulting to say the least. I am starting to feel differently towards JP.

Ivan
 
DeltaAVL
Posts: 1526
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:15 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:21 pm



Quoting Gunships (Reply 262):
The input from the moderators is also less than I would expect.

To be fair, I don't think there's really anything they can say. They know no more information that we do.

Quoting Fly747 (Reply 264):
That's how I have felt for the longest time, but the dishonesty from DM and thinking everybody is stupid is insulting to say the least. I am starting to feel differently towards JP.

I'm certainly losing respect for A.net as each second goes by (which can be regained), but that doesn't mean I'm gaining respect for JP.
 
boeingfreak
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:07 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:22 pm

Hi all,
I just had the idea to inform all airliners.net photographers about the upcoming changes. Thanks to the design of the "Our Photographers"-page contacting the photographers is quite easy. It will be a lot of work of course and I cannot do it alone, but with the help of some of you we'd be able to manage it. My idea was to set up a text message that informs about the new TOU and it's consequences. This is then sent to every photographer listed on the "Our photographers"-page.
We could then split the work, I for example will inform all the photogs with 50-100 photos online. Another one will inform those with 100-150 shots online and so on.
What do you think?

Florian  wave 
 
Gunships
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 11:32 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:32 pm



Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 265):
Quoting Gunships (Reply 262):
The input from the moderators is also less than I would expect.

To be fair, I don't think there's really anything they can say. They know no more information that we do.

I agree with you, however this thread seems to be a departure from what has become the moderating "norm" recently and I think it's refreshing. I speak not only of the subject at hand, but in the manner in which it is being discussed.

My opinion only.
 
ryangooner
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2003 4:56 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:39 pm

Regardless of any decision i feel the damage is done, certainly by the underhand tactics. Will somebody issue an appology?, Will someone take responsibility?, do they actually realise the magnitude of their words?, this is years of work by the dedicated photographers thats been built up to be the best aviation site worldwide to be undone in one statement that will see floods of us leave within weeks.

Its a sad day but one i feel has been coming.

Ryan
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
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ptrjong
Posts: 4123
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:38 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:49 pm



Quoting Gunships (Reply 267):

Please, this tread is about photographers' rights, not about moderation. But of course the volunteer crew are not happy with DM turning the site into a money machine - what do you think? Especially the photo screeners, since they all have valuable photos on the site themselves.
As long as Tim and Royal are hopeful, there's hope that this will be fixed within a few days.

Quoting Boeingfreak (Reply 266):

Good idee, but it can wait till tomorrow.

Peter
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
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eksath
Crew
Posts: 1341
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:19 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 pm



Quoting Gunships (Reply 267):
thread seems to be a departure from what has become the moderating "norm" recently and I think it's refreshing.

If this thread gets deleted or edited down by the management, they can kiss thousands (even hundreds of thousands) of pics goodbye. It will be the final nail in the coffin. There is a lot of people around the world waiting to delete their pics. Given the march 8th deadline, it worries me if this needs to start soon given the usual response from the small editing staff.

I got my itchy trigger finger on the 1200+ pics of mine in this database and the 1000+ in myaviation.net.

The premise that this database has a million + pics and that the loss of a few thousand ain't a big deal is an absolute fallacy. The photographers most incensed are the most dedicated ones who comprise a core group of contributors to this site. Their contributions to the content on this site is immeasurable. As Vasco said, if DM goes ahead with this, DM better be ready to get their database gutted of a some of its most valuable content.
World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
Key
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:35 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:57 pm

Florian,

Quoting Boeingfreak (Reply 266):
What do you think?

I'm not sure that is a good idea.
A.net has sent out a message to all, that landed in the same inbox as you would be using in your plan. There are now two threads on this matter with enough elaboration for anyone to understand the consequences: this one, and the one in Site Related where the email points to.
You may be breaching established (and accepted) rules by doing a kind of mass email through the photographers list. And if this would be accepted, the door is open to anyone with less noble intentions than yourself. I would not like to see that happen.
Finally, it's quite a bomb that has gone off in the aviation photography world and I would be surprised if there is no reaction from DM within a day or so. Personally, I will wait for that.

As stated in the other thread, the ToU need radical change in order for me to stay on. If that does not happen, I don't think I will 'move' to another site, it will just be the end of this kind of image hosting for me (says a humble contributor).

Erik
 
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lennymuir
Posts: 403
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 7:58 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:59 pm



Quote:
....Especially the photo screeners, since they all have valuable photos on the site themselves....

Yup, if there is no correction, there won't be many/any screeners left either... right?
 
whappeh
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:47 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:00 pm

Quoting Eksath (Reply 270):
As Vasco said, if DM goes ahead with this, DM better be ready to get their database gutted of a some of its most valuable content.

That will hurt them with new uploads too. I'm a relatively new shooter when it comes to Aviation photography. I shoot landscapes primarily, and do lots of photography for my job, and always had a soft spot for aircraft... just never shot them. I came here and started putting my work on this website because I wanted to be judged by peers and see if I could hang with the best of the best. It may be a faulty way of thinking about it, but I wanted my work to be shown next to the best (even if it is just 11 images).. and I am sure lots of new shooters feel the same way about this website once they show up. If you remove a lot of those major players out of the mix, new people aren't going to want to upload.

[Edited 2008-02-10 12:03:58]
-Travel now, journey infinitely.
 
codeshare
Posts: 1689
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 2:23 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:02 pm

Quoting Lennymuir (Reply 272):

Yup, if there is no correction, there won't be many/any screeners left either... right?

Looks to me like Granite is gone.

KS/codeshare

EDIT: Sorry misread. Delete post if necessary. Someone is gone anyway.

[Edited 2008-02-10 12:05:05]
How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
 
crank
Posts: 1524
Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 11:42 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:11 pm

Does DM really think thousands of photographers are willing to

Quote:
grant Airliners.net an irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, transmit, distribute, publicly perform and display (including in each case by means of a digital audio and video transmission), advertise in, on, and around, and create derivative works of the Content you submit or make available for inclusion on or through the Service, and to incorporate such Content into other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, for purposes such as (but not limited to) promoting the Site or promoting the availability of such Content on the Site

???

I'm not one of them and if the situation does not change I will not hesitate to have my 600 photos removed from the database.
 
User avatar
Navigator
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2001 2:31 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:24 pm

If A:net is eroding photographers copyright I think it will only be a matter of time before Jetphotos.net has altogether taken over the handling of this business on A:net. The pictures uploaded so far on A:net would I suppose not be subject to those strange new conditions, because if they are I think a lot of pictures will be removed from A:net by the photographers.
747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
 
agd
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:52 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:25 pm

I've been following this thread for a while now. I have to admit that I'm really surprised that such a serious Internet company wouldn't consider the gigantic impact the new TofU would have on the A.net community and else.

As in Scotland and in Spain, and probably as in many other aviation communities around the globe, I know that most of the Montreal photographers are really upset about the situation and won't hesitate to pull the plug if they have to. Despite all the hard work and the joy of having been able to get over 600 pictures accepted on this high quality website, I'll have no option but to ask for the removal of all of my A.net portofolio pictures if the situation stays as it is at the moment.

[Edited 2008-02-10 12:26:44]

[Edited 2008-02-10 12:27:20]
NO URLS in signature
 
paulc
Posts: 1440
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2001 10:42 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:25 pm

Have not uploaded photos here for a while but stil have over 2000 inthe database which will be deleted before the deadline.

a.net is rapidly going up in flames and all DM seem to do is add more petrol!
English First, British Second, european Never!
 
lijk604
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 5:33 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:27 pm



Quoting KarlADrage (Reply 100):
Demand MediaTM is building a different type of new media company.

With a proprietary media platform that powers the company's highly-trafficked domains and wholly-owned content media properties, Demand Media leverages cutting edge, user-driven publishing, community and monetization tools in its quest to define the next generation of new media companies.

--------------------------------------------
What exactly does 'wholly-owned content media properties' say to anyone else???

It say's it's time for me to pull my measely 35 photos as well.
 
ake0404ar
Posts: 2386
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 10:55 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:29 pm

Who we are?

Airliners.net is the biggest and most visited aviation interest site on the Internet, logging over 80,000,000 page-views from 900,000 distinct users every month. Our users and community include airline management, frequent air travelers, aviation photographers and enthusiasts which come from every corner of the globe. We strive to be the international center of aviation online and are continually growing the site to include better features and more content. We thank you for your support and hope you join the largest aviation community on the web.

What we offer?

Aviation Photo Database - We host the largest aviation photo database on the web with unrivaled photo quality. There are over 1.2 million shots online with an average daily growth of 500 photos added per day. Our quality standards are extremely high and the over 12,000 photographers that contribute to our database are some of the best in the world.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will this statement be valid in a week from now?
They might have to change that section too...

[Edited 2008-02-10 12:33:04]

[Edited 2008-02-10 12:34:04]
 
ZagAbe
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 3:26 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:36 pm

https://www.airliners.net/termsofuse/ now start with

"WE HAVE RECEIVED A LOT OF FEEDBACK AND HAVE DECIDED TO INDEFINITELY POSTPONE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE NEW POLICIES FOR PRE-EXISTING USERS. WE WILL REVISE THE POLICIES TO ADDRESS ALL OF THE CONCERNS WE HAVE RECEIVED. THIS IS A PROCESS OF COLLABORATIVE RULE-SETTING. WE LISTEN TO OUR MEMBERS AND WILL ADDRESS THEIR CONCERNS."

First, I'd like to say quite clearly: These terms are unfair to new users, who are still getting robbed - as I see, new TOU are implemented for them.

Also, what's the point of "INDEFINITELY POSTPONE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE NEW POLICIES FOR PRE-EXISTING USERS."? Either scrap this rules and use the old ones while you write the new rules and stop robbing new users out of their copyright or publish a rewrite of those rules (acceptable to both new and old photographers) immediately. If we're now playing by the old rules, publish those. Terms of Use in current use should have to be published, not the ones that are "indefinitely postponed".

This is, however, a victory. A small victory, but a victory indeed. The fight goes on, though, and my countdown clock is still ticking.
 
deradere
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:55 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:39 pm



Quoting Skyliner (Reply 258):
Note that there are no "I'll take my stuff and leave" threats here;

Well, now there are. I just took my stuff and left... well I am trying to leave. I don't know how long it will take since there will be millions of emails floating into [email protected]
I just have 1 pic on this site and some on myaviation.net

Time to move on. I had a wonderful time here guys thanks I've always enjoyed you work.

Cheers,
Lars
Using Nikon equip.
 
DeltaAVL
Posts: 1526
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:15 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:48 pm



Quoting Deradere (Reply 283):
Well, now there are. I just took my stuff and left... well I am trying to leave. I don't know how long it will take since there will be millions of emails floating into [email protected]
I just have 1 pic on this site and some on myaviation.net

Time to move on. I had a wonderful time here guys thanks I've always enjoyed you work.

???

So you go just as we're starting to make some headway here?
 
aloges
Posts: 14807
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:51 pm



Quoting ZagAbe (Reply 282):
Also, what's the point of "INDEFINITELY POSTPONE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE NEW POLICIES FOR PRE-EXISTING USERS."? Either scrap this rules and use the old ones while you write the new rules

I suppose they'll want to discuss this with "legal" first since it would be easy to get entangled in a giant legal mess. But yes, the old TOU clauses must be made available.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4338
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:58 pm



Quoting Deradere (Reply 283):
Time to move on. I had a wonderful time here guys thanks I've always enjoyed you work.

Sorry you had to leave, but I'm behind you man, I'm thinking of taking my stuff and leaving right now. Even if(when) the ToU changes, I will be very hesitant about uploading my work here, I don't trust Monique, Paulo, and anyone else involved with DM. I think that they may be nice people, but I also think they are destroying this site, when I signed up, I didn't want my photos to be the best, as that is a far cry, I wanted them to be displayed next to the best, now by the looks of things, the best are leaving while they still own the copyrights to their pictures. I've already began uploading to JP, my first upload in about a year and a half to that site.

DM, you have to Wednesday or I'm gone.
 
KLM772ER
Posts: 520
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 5:29 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:07 pm



Quoting ZagAbe (Reply 282):
This is, however, a victory. A small victory, but a victory indeed. The fight goes on, though, and my countdown clock is still ticking.

If it is really a fight between DM and the photographers and will stay this way, than we the photographers can't win!

If there isn't a real solution coming from DM themself (which I still believe it will...) I don't think there is anything we can do on the longterm, even if we win this time! If DM really has the intentions everybody now thinks they have, than there will be similar problems upcoming in the future even if we "win" this time..
Airliners.net is and will always stay a community living from and through its members, and I am sure DM is aware of this.

And I am also sure that there will be coming an acceptable version of the TOU and the whole problem will sort out.
DM is a company, and I am sure they DO know how important we the photographers are for this site as they paid a lot money for this! No company would spend money without having a closer look a what they bought, and I am also sure DM knows that loosing the photographers would ruin this site and that is not their intention!

I still believe DM will not ruin this site and I will give them time to sort this problem out in the next few days!

Anyway as said above in my earlier post, if there will be no solution I won't hesitate to pull my pictures either!

Björn
 
lijk604
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 5:33 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:07 pm

Nothing from Paolo and it's 4pm EST on Sunday.
Questions have been posed to him & Monique and they have not been addressed.
Extremely disturbing.
 
mclaudio
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:22 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:13 pm

Once again...I know that we are in the middle of a turmoil, but...still no email here. Not even on the junk mail box.
Proudly one of the 6 million Portuguese that support SL Benfica!! Champions 2009-2010!
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4338
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:15 pm



Quoting KLM772ER (Reply 288):
If it is really a fight between DM and the photographers and will stay this way, than we the photographers can't win!

We have one tool that we have that DM doesn't, that's our photos, we can Demand (pun intended) our photos to be removed if it doesn't change, we can control them, if they don't want to change the rules, we can take the backbone of A.net with us, the photos, without that, Airliners.net will cease to exist. We have them by the balls, we can get them to bark at the moon if we wanted to, because we have leverage on them.
 
bottie
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 12:53 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:16 pm

I'm awaiting more explainations from DM untill I decide if I'm pulling my pics out of the database or not. But from what I've read, I think it pretty clear which way they wanted to be heading with the pictures in the database, and now with the new text added it's more unfair to the new users/members. I understand DM didn't buy A.net from Johan just the please him, they are a company that wants to make profit, but the way they've handle us, members and photographers, I think they underestimated the way everybody reacted.


From what I noticed today, with all those peoplo saying they have pulled or will be pulling their shots out of the queue, the amount of waiting pics didn't chance that much ... about 4800 pics at this moment, this morning (local time) that was about the same amount.


For now, I wait for some more news from 'them', but I won't wait that long ... I'm almost sure there will be a new move that will receive some more moaning and complaining, but will all those people threatening to pull their shots out, the value of a.net will take the same course as the stock markets did the last weeks I'm afraid.
 
chris78cpr
Posts: 2732
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:44 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:18 pm



Quoting JeffM (Reply 182):
Chris K has done the right thing in backing the photographers that contribute to his site and doing so in plain english.

I totally and 100% agree. Good move by someone who gives a damn about the people who use his site!

Quoting UA935 (Reply 251):
With all due respect do you not think that the photographers of this site and the content of this thread have provided a summary to DM that explains everything?

I don't think any of us here require a summary which explains everything, what we require is the immediate withdrawal of the terms and conditions and the 8 March deadline.

It is us, the photographers who draw probably 80% of the visitors to Anet, we will not be dictated to or hand over copyrights to our images.

In effect Anet is little more than a photo hosting website with screeners. I am sure if T & C's like these were rolled out by FLICKR, PBase and the like they would soon be out of business.

I fear that Demand Media have done irreversible damage to this site, things have been slowly going down hill since they took over and this has capped it all.

Again i totally agree with Simon.

The damage has been done.

I have only just found this thread after being told about it by a fellow photographer and while i think that DM's intentions were not to do us over, they have really buggered up what they have tried to impliment. Based on the forum names i have seen in this thread so far i think DM are at risk, or have lost most of the best photographers on this site. This could be the end of what was once a fantastic site.

Chris
5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4709
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:23 pm



Quoting Whappeh (Reply 273):
If you remove a lot of those major players out of the mix, new people aren't going to want to upload.

Exactly right. That is exactly what I was thinking. If things don't change, and fast, we are looking at enormously devastating consequences set off in a chain reaction.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Key
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:35 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:32 pm

As we speak, the new ToU have been replaced by the old ones, with the extra message above. There could be hope.

Erik
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:40 pm

This is a mass reply as I am sure that those few who have contacted me are staying tuned to this thread and will see it.

Please stop sending me PM's and emails asking if I am going to delete my photos. I will make the decision based on what I feel is best for me and ONLY me. Rest assured that I will not act on a chain reaction ie...He did it, so am I.  no  and would hope if I reached the decision to pull my photos, that I wouldnt start a chain reaction. Do what is right for you.

I appreciate your concern, however.
 
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walter2222
Posts: 1244
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:40 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:51 pm



Quoting Key (Reply 296):
As we speak, the new ToU have been replaced by the old ones, with the extra message above. There could be hope.

 checkmark 

...but browsing through this thread, a lot of damage has already been done. It is a sad day for aviation-photography!

I do trust the screeners/photographers, because we are all in the same boat...but we all will have to watch clearly what DM's intentions are for the future.

PS: I work a lot with the legal department in the company I work for, but I have never seen such a bad "show"!

Let's hope for the best, but be prepared...

Best regards,

Walter
Canon 347d mkII ;-) - EFS10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM - EFS18-55mm - EF28-105mm f3.5/4.5 - EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6l IS USM - ...
 
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dvincent
Posts: 1590
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:53 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:56 pm



Quoting Bottie (Reply 293):


From what I noticed today, with all those peoplo saying they have pulled or will be pulling their shots out of the queue, the amount of waiting pics didn't chance that much ... about 4800 pics at this moment, this morning (local time) that was about the same amount.

What people are threatening to do is delete their photos from the database itself. I have been mulling yanking my currently 12 shots in the queue but they are almost screened so it doesn't matter - they will either be rejected or accepted and yanked if it comes to pass. Two different things.
From the Mind of Minolta
 
mygind66
Posts: 1033
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 7:13 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:08 pm

DM, Paulo, Monique

I've been out of A.net for half a year... but your new rules, if not changed in 1 or 2 days will end your business.
I'll wait, me and my tiny 135 number of photos to see a big change, if not you loose another contributor.

Enrique Ferrer
Mallorca
Spain
 
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ptrjong
Posts: 4123
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:38 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:28 pm



Quoting Dvincent (Reply 299):

Yes, Bram (Bottie), this is about bigger things.

Our beautiful a.net is a great place where we all spend (too) much time, with great people behind the bar. But the new landlords want to demolish it and replace it with something unacceptable to the whole neighbourhood.  banghead 
Now that we are seen to be all walking away, maybe the landlords can be convinced to leave things as they were, as long as the rent is paid (the site earning moneyh through advertising).

I've also left my shots in the upload queue so far - the powers that be probably don't even know what the upload queue is. However, screening seems a bit slow today - I guess most of the screeners are taking a well deserved break. Wink

I wonder what Johan thinks now. I can't blame the man, but would have hoped he'd arranged some guarantees against this kind of thing happening.

Peter
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
bottie
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 12:53 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:38 pm

I think I didn't make myself clear (blame the midnight-hour  Wink


I was just referring to the fact I've seen saying lots of people they will take their shots out of the queue, but the only thing I noticed was that the queue was stable or even slightly got bigger   and not about the fact all pics are still in the database. No doubt the main database will shrink when DM releases new conditions with the same meaning in other words (read 'laywer-language)... or even worse ...

Placing back to old terms is getting back in the good direction, but I'm curious what will follow from DM's side ...



And what Johan is thinking? He cashed out and has some worries less ....

[Edited 2008-02-10 14:43:28]
 
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Ryan h
Posts: 1701
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2001 7:11 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:57 pm

After reading this thread it shows that demand media are starting to wake up to their big mistake, but there is still a very long way to go.
Terms 'Postponed For Pre-Existing Users' (by Ptrjong Feb 10 2008 in Aviation Photography)
South Australian Spotter
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4338
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:02 pm



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 297):
I wonder what Johan thinks now. I can't blame the man, but would have hoped he'd arranged some guarantees against this kind of thing happening.

a)He probably bought his own island in Dubai and is sitting in a lawn chair with a 6 pack next to him with a cigar in his mouth watching the boats go by him.

b) buying some Navy SEAL scuba gear and planning a midnight raid on the Santa Monica HQ.

I hope for b)

-Matt  Wink
 
Blackprojects
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:22 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:24 pm

Well a Can of Worms got opend and its led to a real mess.

I hope it all settles down again but it will be ages before it rearly settles down.

Matt i think Johan may still be here just as a normal user.
 
FelixMayer727
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:18 pm

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:54 pm

My deadline is Wednesday! Then I take decision about my 1100+ pics in the DB! Currently they are gone! So DM, take the right decision and scrap the new Terms, give us back the old Terms!
 
flynavy
Topic Author
Posts: 2179
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:48 am

RE: New Terms - What It Means For Photographers

Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:29 am



Quoting Key (Reply 288):
As we speak, the new ToU have been replaced by the old ones, with the extra message above. There could be hope.

 redflag 

This is nothing but Demand Media switching over to "damage control" mode!

The fact is that any new members (and thus photographers) have ALREADY agreed to the new terms of use. They've already signed the dotted line.

Airliners.net is bleeding. Badly.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
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