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AdamWright
Topic Author
Posts: 602
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:58 pm

Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:46 am

So I checked my email and guess what, another wanker trying to get a free image for his newspaper/publication.. I wasn't gonna lay on the sugar this time, I told him what I thought:

Mr. xxx,

Thank you for your interest in my photo of the inflight NWA cockpit photo. Those are fairly rare photos to come by as cockpit access is extremely tight and limited with new security measures in place by the government. And inside that select pool, to have a photographer on the flight deck of a US Carrier with professional grade equipment producing images of this quality under the right conditions make photos such as the one you are interested in that much more difficult to find.

Therefore, I am deciding to NOT give you the rights to use this photo in your report. Frankly, its disrespectful to assume a photographer will give away photos just to see his/her name in print. Thousands of dollars were invested by the photographer to make images like this possible. (Not to mention the legal loop holes, security background checks, and time spent on my behalf traveling to get these photos) Please do not waste my time attempting to get photos for free. If you knew the basics of business ethics, you'd know that a service/product is exchanged for a monetary gain on the behalf of the supplier. Like you, I also have costs to cover with the product I supply to the media/industry. Please do not waste my time with this pathetic attempt to get a free photo.

Regards,
Adam


And so, for all you out there who get these emails, PLEASE do yourself a service and respond in kind. We are our own worst enemy when we give away a photo for free. Man, you deserve to get PAID for the hard work and effort you put into your pictures!

That is all,
Adam
 
sluger020889
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:41 pm

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:53 am



Quoting AdamWright (Thread starter):
Therefore, I am deciding to NOT give you the rights to use this photo in your report. Frankly, its disrespectful to assume a photographer will give away photos just to see his/her name in print. Thousands of dollars were invested by the photographer to make images like this possible. (Not to mention the legal loop holes, security background checks, and time spent on my behalf traveling to get these photos) Please do not waste my time attempting to get photos for free. If you knew the basics of business ethics, you'd know that a service/product is exchanged for a monetary gain on the behalf of the supplier. Like you, I also have costs to cover with the product I supply to the media/industry. Please do not waste my time with this pathetic attempt to get a free photo.

Freaking owned!

i agree though, I'm tired of people looking for free hand outs.

Joey
 
spoogle
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:53 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:59 am

Yep .... getting very common now this type of thing .

I have had a few with comments like " well thanks but we'll go somewhere else as we have photographers lined up willing to supply an image for no cost "

well good luck to 'em  Smile


Ill bet you have 200 free seats on the aircraft too ..... ill line up for that  Big grin



regards
 
CalgaryBill
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 12:27 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:04 am



Quoting Spoogle (Reply 2):
I have had a few with comments like " well thanks but we'll go somewhere else as we have photographers lined up willing to supply an image for no cost "

On the bright side, they usually get the quality they pay for...

B
 
dendrobatid
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:40 pm

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:42 am

I had a request from an airline to use one of my very rare old photographs to make a poster, a poster, not even a small brochure photo, to advertise a new route and, pleasure of pleasures, I could have had my name displayed on it in two Cities that I never visit. What was worse was that the request came through a well known photographer on this site who worked for that airline.
My 'No' was pretty polite with a comment that the last time I had used that airline I had had to pay for their services and that I saw no reason that they should not pay for mine. I suggested a return flight for my Wife and I (which would have cost them nothing) but I did not even receive the decency of a reply.
That is treating me with contempt but I will not stoop to their levels either naming the airline or photographer.
We are our own enemies when we give our work away for free.
Must go now. We are short of staff in the office and I have to go to work, though they can't afford to pay me.
Yeaaahhhh, right !

Mick Bajcar
 
viv
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 5:17 pm

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:25 am

I received such a request yesterday. I replied to the effect that, if they wished to make me an offer, I would consider it.

No response ....
 
warbirdz
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:11 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:32 am

So Adam, Just curious. Did you have to pay to get into the cockpit.

Forget if you had to pay for the flight and they let you into the cockpit. that's not quite the same. Assuming you paid for the flight that is.

Or was this purely an airline endorsed shoot where they invited you to go flying with them so you could take the professional images.

No disrespect, just curious.

Glenn
 
cpd
Posts: 7491
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:12 am



Quoting AdamWright (Thread starter):
So I checked my email and guess what, another wanker trying to get a free image for his newspaper/publication.. I wasn't gonna lay on the sugar this time, I told him what I thought:

I think that was a great reply.  Smile Sometimes they do need to be told in language they will understand.
 
Jez
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:47 pm

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:40 am

It annoys me too, but then I think - Do I take pictures to make money? Sure it's nice to get paid, but for me it's a hobby not a business and therefore would never consider analysing or attempting to recoup my expenses.

Let's face it; sometimes it's just easier to give a shot away. I don't have the time, inclination or tools to haggle, deal with invoices, payment, contractual issues etc. for the usual paltry sums involved.

I'll await the inevitable indignation.
 
bigphilnyc
Posts: 3874
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:43 pm

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:37 pm

There are organizations that I will give my photos to for free.....non-profits, some educational facilities, etc.

However, it's not about making money, but more so about not being taken advantage of. The airlines and other companies don't come to us because they just like our photos....Airliners.net is a way for them to save thousands by hiring a photographer and setting up a shoot. Many messages that they send have the intention of getting what they want for free because they know that they can.

I am a bit of a hardass, and though I've never replied with as stern of a tone as Adam, I certainly let them know that I will not be taken advantage of, and that there's a fee for usage.
 
CalgaryBill
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 12:27 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:28 pm



Quoting Jez (Reply 8):
I don't have the time, inclination or tools to haggle, deal with invoices, payment, contractual issues etc. for the usual paltry sums involved.

You can't be bothered to write a single paragraph specifying how much you're charging and what rights and usage come with the agreement? When some small paper gets your photo for free, then uses it as the headline image in an article about pilot error causing crashes, you'll wish you had dealt with the "contractual issues". Just because you're willing to give it away doesn't exonerate you of your responsibility - or legal liability - as a photographer.

B
 
User avatar
ThierryD
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:29 pm



Quoting AdamWright (Thread starter):
And so, for all you out there who get these emails, PLEASE do yourself a service and respond in kind.

I rather do myself a service by sending them a quick "No!" instead of wasting minutes of my life to write such a long mail.  Wink
Mostly agree with you though but and though I'm a natural optimist I strongly doubt such replies will change anything and such requests will always flood in.

Thierry
 
Jez
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:47 pm

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:27 pm



Quoting CalgaryBill (Reply 10):
When some small paper gets your photo for free, then uses it as the headline image in an article about pilot error causing crashes, you'll wish you had dealt with the "contractual issues".

 laughing   laughing   laughing  Sorry, I shouldn't laugh. You are right. It's a very serious issue.

Thanks for the warning, but I'll take my chances and cross that bridge when I come to it.  Smile
 
sulman
Posts: 1966
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:52 pm

Jez,

I'd say it comes down to how much you value your time. If you give away shots, people are benefitting from that. They're benefitting from your time, your effort, your talent, your equipment, and it's costing them nothing.

The only people I do those kinds of favours for are family and friends. I don't blame companies trying to get photos for free. The market is supporting that. It's down to us.


James
 
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dvincent
Posts: 1593
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:53 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:18 pm

I've had a few requests lately from pilots for images, I've found it very effective to redirect them to my Smugmug where they can buy prints. It means I don't give out the high res images anymore because they usually just want to make prints for their own private use and there's no sense in giving them a high res so they can make a junky print on their inkjet. So far, it's been a great tack.

But when it comes to other uses, I've been struggling with this issue myself since I get requests to use images all the time, only for them to disappear when money is involved. A reasoned response like Andy's is exactly what is needed to these guys, if enough people do it they will get the hint.
 
CalgaryBill
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 12:27 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:45 pm



Quoting Jez (Reply 12):
Thanks for the warning, but I'll take my chances and cross that bridge when I come to it.

No worries, keep laughing. A photographer in Canada felt the same way when he submitted an image in a photo contest. One of the "anonymous" faces in the image complained and landed him an invasion of privacy charge. Went all the way up to the supreme court of Canada (where he lost). I can't imagine the legal costs he incurred, but just consider the image wasn't even used commercially. I'm sure he laughed all the way to court.

B
 
Jez
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:47 pm

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:55 pm



Quoting CalgaryBill (Reply 15):
No worries, keep laughing. A photographer in Canada felt the same way when he submitted an image in a photo contest. One of the "anonymous" faces in the image complained and landed him an invasion of privacy charge. Went all the way up to the supreme court of Canada (where he lost). I can't imagine the legal costs he incurred, but just consider the image wasn't even used commercially. I'm sure he laughed all the way to court.

Yeah, and someone got murdered the other day while they were out in the street. I'm never going to use those streets again. You can get murdered. See how easy it is to scaremonger?

To be honest, I don't make a habit of giving shots away and the very least I expect is a free copy of the publication. What pisses me off is when 'professionals' start preaching about how you should charge for shots to protect their interests like I owe them something. It sounds too much like a poor attempt to create a cartel to me.
 
User avatar
Ryan h
Posts: 1704
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2001 7:11 pm

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:12 pm

Jez, I agree with your comments.

To me taking photos of aircraft is a hobby and when someone asks to use a photo I usually let them use it and ask for a copy of the publication.

Jez, I also agree about the 'pros' whinging that people like us are taking their business away from them. Don't they have a regular job?
 
Halcyon
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:47 pm

Some people want a lot of money for photos, and if companies will pay, then I guess the more power to you.

However, whenever someone wants to buy a photo from me, all I usually ask is that I get a copy of what it'll be printed in. In the case of some of the landscape photography, I might ask that I be reimbursed for gas or something. Generally I get around $15-50 for a shot, and it's usually not because I ask for the money.

I suck at plane photos, but I have been able to sell some of my more unusual action ones that I've taken during fire season, and most of that comes through word-of-mouth.
 
skidmarks
Posts: 6614
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:51 pm

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:58 pm



Quoting CalgaryBill (Reply 10):
You can't be bothered to write a single paragraph specifying how much you're charging and what rights and usage come with the agreement? When some small paper gets your photo for free, then uses it as the headline image in an article about pilot error causing crashes, you'll wish you had dealt with the "contractual issues". Just because you're willing to give it away doesn't exonerate you of your responsibility - or legal liability - as a photographer.

Like Jez I do this for a hobby. Not to make money. I spend on my equipment and trips because I want to, not because I want to make a profit. Sometimes I get big companies asking for pictures and I say no, because I feel they can afford to buy them. Most times I am happy to allow use of the picture because I am simply pleased that someone has viewed the picture and thought it worthy of use. That's payment enough for me.

Having said that, I have had quite a lot of flights given away free in exchange for pictures, a far more useful resource than cash. If I can get a flight then I'll take it but I don't go out with the express intention of doing so.

Many people on A.net seem to be of the opinion that, if someone ( company or individual) wants to use or own a copy of their picture they took whilst carrying out their hobby, then they should receive suitable recompense and quote the expense of their gear and the cost of their time. Personally I think if you are in it for money you are neither an amateur or enthusiast.

But, at the end of the day, it comes down to personnal preference. Do not condemn those who "undermine" your bargaining power or "do the hobby an injustice" by giving away their pictures because those pictures are theirs to do with what they want, and it is not your place to demand they ask for payment simply because YOU are that way inclined. Whether you like it or not, the world is full of those who don't always do as you wish.

Andy  old 
 
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NIKV69
Posts: 15270
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:20 am



Quoting AdamWright (Thread starter):
Frankly, its disrespectful to assume a photographer will give away photos just to see his/her name in print.

Well they assume it because many here do give them away for free.

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 11):
I rather do myself a service by sending them a quick "No!" instead of wasting minutes of my life to write such a long mail.

Not to mention that they probably delete it as soon as they realize you are not complying. Remember that these requests are usually sent out to multiple photogs looking for the same shot. Process of elimination. One will give in.

I have gotten a few requests last 6 weeks, one from a bunch of employees from a major airline making a calendar who wouldn't even send me a hat or a t-shirt .I told them to go screw. A leasing company who were nice and were up front about not being able to pay anything so I told them politely to go screw and a small airport who actually did the right thing. As I have said until everyone acts the same we are spinning our wheels.
 
romeokc10fe
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 3:45 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:27 am



Quoting AdamWright (Thread starter):
Please do not waste my time with this pathetic attempt to get a free photo.

Great reply, though I think you could have left that last line out.
 
USA1890
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:42 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:06 am

If I might ask. What is the most you have been compisated in your pictures? I am just curious. Thanks
 
JakTrax
Posts: 5267
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:21 am

I am an aviation enthusiast and aircraft photographer. I do it 'cause I love going to the airport, shooting some 'planes, having a beer with my buddies afterwards and getting home to display the day's work on my big screen. It's expensive but I'm going to do it regardless, and that will never change. I have given images away for free through this site, mainly to pilots who were in command that day of the aircraft pictured. I also gave a free low-res image to an author who was writing a book on an airline's history, in return for a free copy of the publication. The author did explain that he would make royalties from book sales but specified that it wasn't likely to be much at all. In these situations I am not adverse to the idea of supplying images for nothing. However if a large company approached me looking to use my image to generate (or help generate) a handsome profit I would expect compensation. This is a different kettle of fish we're talking here. I'm not in it for the money but payment for image usage helps me afford that new lens I want; it pays fuel money for my next trip; it pays for a round at the airport pub. If someone is going to use your image and turn it into mega-bucks then you have a right (in my opinion) to be appropriately compensated - even if it's only $50 dollars or so. I'm never particularly worried about how much someone's going to pay me for an image - it's just nice to know your work is actually worth something to someone. Always better etiquette on their part to make at least some kind of offer - however small - rather than just ask for a free licence.

Karl
 
ac888yow
Posts: 412
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:29 pm

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:55 pm

I have a generic email that I reply to photo usage requests with. Essentially it says:

If your application is commercial in nature, there is a fee, no exceptions. If you're looking for a free picture, look elsewhere. Otherwise, please respond and I'll be happy to discuss further.

It's great at weeding out the cheapos.
 
soon7x7
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:33 pm



Quoting AdamWright (Thread starter):

Last week, just had a gent requesting use of a G-lV interior image of mine as he needs for his "start-up" marketing. I replied with a considerate NO as that particular image was NOT available for use...HOWEVER I had many others of all types. His request turned into 8 other type aircraft, INT's/EXT's. He denmanded that they be of the highest quality...This required me to high res scan 15 images...needless to say, I passed along to him a generous cost proposal that would cover my end appropriately, including image use. His reply was his max budget...which in no way covered my time. I readdressed the size/quality issue so perhaps I could pass along an easier price point for him. We agreed on a deal...the minute I requested an actual deposit...THE END...

Once again...money talks and BULL___IT walks....My equipment didn't come to me free, my lenses and scanners were'nt free, my ability to open doors in high security situations to take photos, was not handed to me...they were developed over time...

These people will pick away at as many of us as it takes just so they don't have to pay REAL MONEY for images. Put a respectable price on your work, whether hobby or not. No one can get into any aspect of aviation business without having decent financial backing...without good images their marketing campaings are dead in the water.
 
nirmalmakadia
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:08 am

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:51 pm

Great answer. I personally think that the photographer should get paid for his work.

Regards

Nirmal  wave 
 
AdamWright
Topic Author
Posts: 602
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:58 pm

RE: Tryin To Score Free Photos.. I Hate IT!

Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:50 pm



Quoting Warbirdz (Reply 6):
Did you have to pay to get into the cockpit.

Forget if you had to pay for the flight and they let you into the cockpit. that's not quite the same. Assuming you paid for the flight that is.

Or was this purely an airline endorsed shoot where they invited you to go flying with them so you could take the professional images.

No disrespect, just curious.

Glenn

I was an intern with Northwest Airlines during my time in College. I didn't have to pay for the access. The photos taken were not sponsored by NWA or apart of my work schedule for the company.
-Adam

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