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mjlewis
Topic Author
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:32 pm

I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:45 am

This was garbage. First off my dad is a pilot for CAL based out of EWR. I was en route from ALB-TPA and waiting for my flight, I was by the window snapping a few. A guy in a red coat, (pretty sure it was a CAL gate security person) came up to me and said I had to put my camera away and that I wasn't allowed to take pictures of the planes! So I gave him some attitude and said "Since when is that a rule or law!?" he replied with "Since 9-11." I kind of laughed at him because that is definitely NOT true, and if it were there would be plenty of signs saying so! Granted I had my 70-300VR on so I'm sure he was jealous haha (even though its not THAT great of a lens). I put it away for the time being then took it back out.

I called my dad and told him what had happened and he cracked up. He told me to tell him (if he said something again) to call the CAL chief pilot at gate 105 and get him to come up there and tell me that!

Anyone else had this problem?
 
waketurbulence
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:35 am

You realize you were on private property right? Going to daddy isn't going to do anything for you. You cannot take photographs on private property unless you have permission otherwise you are trespassing. Signs don't need to be posted either.
-Matt
 
ANITIX87
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:45 am



Quoting Mjlewis (Thread starter):
Anyone else had this problem?

No, but if someone does approach me within a terminal, I will immediately stop, since he was right and you were wrong. As Matt said above, what you were doing was technically illegal, since the airport is private property and you cannot take images without expressed permission.

TIS
 
Fly747
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:57 am

It happens every day, and yes, it's on airport property and they call the shots there, not you or your dad.

Ivan
 
JohnJ
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:01 am

It's only illegal if the airport has an official policy against photography. I'm not aware of a single US public airport that officially forbids in-terminal photography; the only restriction is against taking pictures near the security checkpoints. Anyone who tells you otherwise is making up their own rules.

That said, giving security staff major attitude in an airport is not likely to be a good idea. Better to put the camera away and sort out the issue through more informed channels.

[Edited 2009-01-03 19:03:07]
 
soon7x7
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:05 am



Quoting Mjlewis (Thread starter):

Do yourself a favor...next time you are staged at a gate to catch your flight and you feel like snapping off a few, look around first, if you see any security types, even ticket agents at the podiums...just go over and inform them of your intentions and tell them that you participate in a global aiviation photo website, just tell them something interesting...just remember...when your camera is out...many eyes are watching you and most don't understand what WE do! Save the ATTITUDE ammunition for when a TSA agent that REALLY mishandles your gear and get him to stand down immediate...they will!
99% of the time, they will let you continue without any other issues,...Airports may be private, may also not be private, either way, they are public thouroughfares and photography is not an illegal act. Honey is the only way you will win with these bees...j
 Big grin
 
Daleaholic
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:12 am



Quoting Mjlewis (Thread starter):
So I gave him some attitude and said "Since when is that a rule or law!?" he replied with "Since 9-11." I kind of laughed at him because that is definitely NOT true, and if it were there would be plenty of signs saying so! Granted I had my 70-300VR on so I'm sure he was jealous haha (even though its not THAT great of a lens). I put it away for the time being then took it back out.

Why give him attitude? Why couldn't you just comply with his very simple request and put your camera away.

I've been the same situation, I was taking photos of the terminal in DUB and was approached by a member of staff asking me to stop taking photos and delete the photos I had taken, I certainly didn't delete the photos but I did stop, which saved me any hassle.

What gets me is your attitude that just because your father is a pilot, you think it gives you free reign to do what you like within the airport...  Yeah sure

I bet you wouldn't have spoken to a police officer like that!  Yeah sure
 
waketurbulence
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:56 am



Quoting JohnJ (Reply 4):
It's only illegal if the airport has an official policy against photography.

Please explain why on private property you think the airport needs an "official policy" against photography? This is from the "Photographer's Right" piece, which by no means is a legal document, but I think the topic was researched before this was written:
"Property owners may legally prohibit photography on their premises but have no right to prohibit others from photographing their property from other locations."
-Matt
 
Lexy
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:19 am



Quoting WakeTurbulence (Reply 7):
"Property owners may legally prohibit photography on their premises but have no right to prohibit others from photographing their property from other locations."

In the case of the airport, they are typically owned by taxpayers and that in turn means they are a public space. It is the airports right to forbid photography around secure areas, but....


Now in the case of CO, they rent the space and if it was a CO security guy that imposed his will on this photographer, then put the camera away and go to higher people about the issue later. As for photography in a US airport, they are public spaces and photography inside the terminals is allowed as long as it isn't around the security checkpoints.

If they do not want photography in a certain area like a gate, then it is the owner/renters responsiblity to post it. That is not a legally "understood" law/rule.
 
LASoctoberB6
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:01 am

I wouldn't have handled that the way you did. Giving him attitude is NOT the way to go. It could only make things worse for you and let him get his way. Talk to them with respect and let them know what's going on. If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out. Try again later.
 
dl767captain
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:51 am

couldn't you have just stopped when he told you to and started up again later when he was gone? Why give the poor guy attitude when he's just doing his job, he's probably sick of people giving him attitude and laughing at him. Like it or not you were on private property and they can tell you not to take pictures, calling daddy won't do anything
 
NIKV69
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:04 am



Quoting JohnJ (Reply 4):
It's only illegal if the airport has an official policy against photography. I'm not aware of a single US public airport that officially forbids in-terminal photography; the only restriction is against taking pictures near the security checkpoints. Anyone who tells you otherwise is making up their own rules.

That said, giving security staff major attitude in an airport is not likely to be a good idea. Better to put the camera away and sort out the issue through more informed channels.

Officially unless the airport has their own policy you can shoot inside a terminal as long as your not shooting security checkpoints. That said John is right you may have been better served to tell him nicely that no law exists and asked to see his superior or sought him out yourself without any fanfare.
 
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Plainplane
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:54 am

That happened to me before. I took two trips to Newark, one in June and one in July. I have gone to Newark Liberty International several times before in 2005 and 2006 without a problem.

On the inbound legs of both trips, everything was fine and I was allowed to take a lot of pictures. However on the outbound legs, people in red coats always had a problem with me taking pictures at the AirTrain stations. The first time there was nothing important to see and I let it go and took pictures elsewhere.

During the second trip's inbound, I was actually given advice about which train to go on and station to get off at and then how to come back so I could take photos around the airport.

However the day of the return journey, I was watching the Lufthansa Star Alliance 747 and about to take a picture and I was confronted about it. I immediately went to the lower level and again was about to take a picture of it, in an area not in the AirTrain station. The next person claimed it was illegal to take pictures and she tried to take my camera. Needless to say I lost my 747 opportunity that time.

The people in red coats at Newark are the AirTrain workers, and according to the TSA person that was there that second time, he said that if I was in the secure area then I could take as many pictures as I pleased. So just avoid the AirTrain stations when you take photos at EWR and you should be fine. Also taking pictures on the AirTrain itself is fine too since there is nobody to stop you and the windows have no tinting.

The fact that you were confronted by a gate in the secure area by an AirTrain worker was really unusual. I was confronted once by an AirTrain worker in the secure area while taking pictures but only because I had one foot on the air vent on the window.


Speaking of this I had just the OPPOSITE occurrence at Kennedy last month. I was able to go around the train taking pictures just fine before I got to the terminal, and nobody at the stations were stopping me or made an issue of it. However once I was in the terminal's secure area then I started having problems with taking photos of planes. I was confronted by 3 separate people in the secure area for taking pictures. The first one was very interested in what I was doing and even let me take a few while she was watching but the second and third were nasty about it. It came to the point where I was having to "dodge" security to take pictures of planes. I felt guilty about it but I got a got a lot of good ones. It really depends on who is there.
 
mjlewis
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:59 am

Alright, let me clear this up, when I said "attitude" I didnt mean it in the sense of making a scene and being an ass. I guess my term of an attitude written in forum text can vary. I was respectful, and if you read, I did say I complied, put the camera away, and then took it back out shortly after.

And I did not and do not think I'm special just because my dad is a pilot with them. I figured HE would know the rules as he has been there for 21 years and knows quite a few people within the ranks. I went to him to get his input on the situation IF it went any further.

I was most definitely NOT near any security check areas. If it really were so "illegal" to take pictures from inside the terminals, out the windows, why are there no signs posted saying so? Even outside the property where people go to spot. I was in no way being obnoxious with my camera either, granted it will do 8 fps, I was not going paparazzi style.
 
viv
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:59 am

You acted illegally on private property, gave some lip, then called Daddy.

End of story.

Probably many other kids have done the same thing.
 
fergulmcc
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:57 am



Quoting Lexy (Reply 8):
In the case of the airport, they are typically owned by taxpayers and that in turn means they are a public space. It is the airports right to forbid photography around secure areas, but....

No they are not, just because some tax payers money goes into the Airport doesn't mean you own it.
Inside the grounds of an Airport you are bound by their rules, Laws have nothing to do with it. If they want you to fart in D minor, then you do. If they say no photos, then no photos, its that simple, no arguments.
Big Daddy or Chief Pilot can do nothing, they too are bound the Airport rules. I've worked at the Airport, I know the rules. However outside the fence they have no leg to stand on, they can bark from the fence and you can give them all the lip you want and they can do nothing, cross that line and you are on their turf, be warned.

Waketurbulence and Viv make perfect sense here.

Do not push your luck inside the boundaries of an airport.

Fergul  sun 
 
mjlewis
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:35 pm

If its SO "illegal" then how come 1) I've never been stopped before and there's been PLENTY of those people pass by me and I've done it next to gates where agents could easily see me and 2) MOST OF ALL, why are there no signs saying such a law and how come I have at the very least not seen it on any websites or any other people talking about it.

By the way, I'm not "just a kid" I am 21 and can handle my own situations but when it came to this, I thought it was absurd due to the fact of never hearing of such a thing.
 
fergulmcc
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:11 pm



Quoting Mjlewis (Reply 16):
If its SO "illegal" then how come 1) I've never been stopped before and there's been PLENTY of those people pass by me and I've done it next to gates where agents could easily see me and 2) MOST OF ALL, why are there no signs saying such a law and how come I have at the very least not seen it on any websites or any other people talking about it.

By the way, I'm not "just a kid" I am 21 and can handle my own situations but when it came to this, I thought it was absurd due to the fact of never hearing of such a thing.

I didn't say it was illegal, I said Laws have nothing to do with it, they are a law onto themselves.
Some people will stop you others will turn a blind eye. It all depends on the mood they are in and if they feel like a power trip or maybe the boss has just bollocked him off for being late and now he wants to take it out on you because he can. You have to understand there is no logic to this. Even when I worked at the airport I got some stick for taking out my camera, and that was before 9-11. If you have gotten away with it before then go for it, but if someone stops you then don't give them grief. Simply say, 'no problem', put the camera away and walk off. They might not be able to do anything but if they report you or call the Airport Police then things can get worse. What people are trying to say here is don't make the situation any worse. You are not public property, even if it is, its controlled by them and they can tell you what to do. Even on public transport the workers can stop you, don't believe me! then give them a ring!

All the best and take care.

Fergul  sun 
 
viv
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 5:17 pm

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:53 pm



Quoting Mjlewis (Reply 16):
By the way, I'm not "just a kid" I am 21 and can handle my own situations but when it came to this, I thought it was absurd due to the fact of never hearing of such a thing.

My mistake - I estimated your age from your actions - especially the call to Daddy.

Many things, although unheard of, are not absurd.

Quoting Fergulmcc (Reply 17):
Simply say, 'no problem', put the camera away and walk off.

Excellent advice.
 
Lexy
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:55 pm



Quoting Fergulmcc (Reply 15):
No they are not, just because some tax payers money goes into the Airport doesn't mean you own it.
Inside the grounds of an Airport you are bound by their rules, Laws have nothing to do with it. If they want you to fart in D minor, then you do. If they say no photos, then no photos, its that simple, no arguments.
Big Daddy or Chief Pilot can do nothing, they too are bound the Airport rules. I've worked at the Airport, I know the rules. However outside the fence they have no leg to stand on, they can bark from the fence and you can give them all the lip you want and they can do nothing, cross that line and you are on their turf, be warned.

I don't know where you live, but where I live, they are ran by public officials who are put in there by elected officials. With public meetings and public books. That therefore means the public isn't just "using" the airport thanks to a corporation. The city of Nashville ownes the airport here and the city is owned by the taxpayer. You want to argue that, be my guest. But isn't what I said, the same thing you said in a round-a-bout way??

I wish people would read. What he did is not illegal at all. Perhaps it was a bit stupid, but it was not illegal. If it was, find me the proof. We all know how this site is about proof, where is the proof of your claims???
 
mjlewis
Topic Author
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:07 pm

Fergul: I get where you are coming from. And again, like I said, I complied with him, and put it away until he was gone and then I took it back out for a few more shots of a UPS MD-11. Simple. But I actually think I will look into this more and see what more people have to say about it that work at the airports and such.

Viv: if you're taking the way that I called my father as if I'm spoiled and go running to him for anything, thats VERY incorrect. I figured, that he would know at least a bit more on the situation and of this "rule"
 
Bosox1901
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:46 pm

I think it depends on the location. I took a few at PHX without any problems.
 
Fly747
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:00 pm

Quoting Mjlewis (Reply 20):
I figured, that he would know at least a bit more on the situation and of this "rule"

I've been in all kinds of situations here in YEG and sometimes rules and even stories by the security are made up on the spot. This was outside the terminal, but once the RCMP arrives there's not much arguing you can do. I tried, trust me, I used to be a smart ass as well but it doesn't benefit anybody in the long run.

Ivan

[Edited 2009-01-04 09:01:15]
 
viv
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:07 pm



Quoting Mjlewis (Reply 20):
iv: if you're taking the way that I called my father as if I'm spoiled and go running to him for anything, thats VERY incorrect.

No, I draw no general conclusions, I refer only to the case in point.
 
fergulmcc
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Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 pm

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:13 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 19):
What he did is not illegal at all.

No one said it WAS!!! If you can't read thats not my problem!

Quoting Lexy (Reply 19):
I don't know where you live, but where I live, they are ran by public officials who are put in there by elected officials. With public meetings and public books. That therefore means the public isn't just "using" the airport thanks to a corporation. The city of Nashville ownes the airport here and the city is owned by the taxpayer.

Makes no odds! Try and take a camera out in a government building and see what happens!
You don't seem to understand, if who ever is in charge tells you to put that camera away then you do, its their turf, public or not! Nashville must be the only place that allows it. Do you have that in writing, is it a fact that they allow it? Give them a ring and ask them, I'd love to hear what they say. If so then that's great news, wish they all do that.

Fergul  sun 
 
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moo
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:11 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 19):
I don't know where you live, but where I live, they are ran by public officials who are put in there by elected officials. With public meetings and public books. That therefore means the public isn't just "using" the airport thanks to a corporation. The city of Nashville ownes the airport here and the city is owned by the taxpayer. You want to argue that, be my guest. But isn't what I said, the same thing you said in a round-a-bout way??

A property being owned or payed for by public money or a public body does not mitigate tresspass law - if you refuse to refrain from an action while on the property when you have been asked to desist can legally be prosecuted as tresspass.

Quoting Lexy (Reply 19):
I wish people would read. What he did is not illegal at all. Perhaps it was a bit stupid, but it was not illegal. If it was, find me the proof. We all know how this site is about proof, where is the proof of your claims???

What he did might not have been illegal per se, but since he was asked to refrain from it by a representative of the property, any continued action would have been illegal and he could have got into trouble for it.
 
Lexy
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:17 pm



Quoting Fergulmcc (Reply 24):
Makes no odds! Try and take a camera out in a government building and see what happens!
You don't seem to understand, if who ever is in charge tells you to put that camera away then you do, its their turf, public or not! Nashville must be the only place that allows it. Do you have that in writing, is it a fact that they allow it? Give them a ring and ask them, I'd love to hear what they say. If so then that's great news, wish they all do that.

Your profile says you are from Ireland, so I wouldn't expect you to know one thing about laws here in the US and how they apply to the citizens of it. Bottom line is unless it is stated otherwise, and the land is not public property, you can take pictures end of story my friend. I would suggest a class on the US Constitution for you and a class on interpreting it in a legal manner. I stood inside BNA and took pictures, I stood inside MDW and took pictures, and I have stood inside DTW and took pictures. No problem from any of them. I have spoke to airport officials all over my area of the US and they all have agreed that taking pictures inside the airport terminal is fine as long as it's away form the security checkpoints. Do a google image search for "US Airport Terminal Pictures Inside" or search Flickr or whatever and see what ya get. I'd love to hear what you have to say.

Bottom line is outside of two airports in the US, one of which I mentioned above, all airports are owned and governed by the municiple government in that city. That government is at the mercy of the voters and taxpayers. If they don't want pictures, POST IT! Otherwise, legally, they have absolutely no ground to stand on period! If you can prove otherwise about photography of airplanes from the terminal, I'd love to hear that as well.
 
Lexy
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:26 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 25):
A property being owned or payed for by public money or a public body does not mitigate tresspass law - if you refuse to refrain from an action while on the property when you have been asked to desist can legally be prosecuted as tresspass.

Alot of it becomes "he said/she said" and never makes it to court to begin with. Typically, if you can get a good lawyer, you could settle out of court without ever seeing the other side. Like I have said all along, it is best to stop if asked. I don't disagree with that at all!

But if an airport, or tennant, wants to prohibit photography from happening then a blanket statement has to be made and posted somewhere where the public (in this case) and employees are aware of the policies in place. Like I said in my first post, the renter can make their own rules at their gates, but they need to be posted if they are to be enforced on a regular basis. Otherwise, you can fight your way out of it fairly easily.

I think we are all splitting hairs here and dancing around the same point. We can all agree that if asked to stop, you stop no questions asked. But that doesn't mean you have to "take it". If you feel as though your rights have been violated as a citizen of the US, then you have the right to seek a higher power on the issue and you should. What's the use of having a freedom like that when you don't use it you know?
 
goboeing
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:36 pm

I can't believe you backed down!

Some of those CAL agents are so horrible I'd have given them a hard time about it just to piss them off.
 
fergulmcc
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:41 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 26):
I would suggest a class on the US Constitution

No I don't need it!! I have enough hassel with the Irish one! Big grin

Quoting Lexy (Reply 26):
If they don't want pictures, POST IT! Otherwise, legally, they have absolutely no ground to stand on period! If you can prove otherwise about photography of airplanes from the terminal, I'd love to hear that as well.

We'll agree to disagree, if you say that you have taken pictures inside those terminals, excellent, good for you, good luck and I hope you don't get any hassel but if you do . . . . I'll leave it up to you. I don't need to prove anything.

Quoting Lexy (Reply 26):
Your profile says you are from Ireland,

Yeah, and mine's a pint of Guinness! Big grin I don't need to be from the US of A to understand restrictions.

Quoting Moo (Reply 25):

Moo has made some very good points.

Listen, lets not all get our knickers in a twist. next time you're in Ireland I'll buy you a pint!

Take care and all the best for '09.  bigthumbsup 

Have fun everyone!!

Fergul  sun 
 
NIKV69
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:43 pm



Quoting Viv (Reply 14):
You acted illegally on private property, gave some lip, then called Daddy.

I don't think this statement is accurate. As far as the law goes without an airport policy barring photography totally as long as he was not aiming his camera at a security checkpoint it was not illegal.
 
Lexy
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Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:05 am

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:50 pm



Quoting Fergulmcc (Reply 29):
Listen, lets not all get our knickers in a twist. next time you're in Ireland I'll buy you a pint!

Take care and all the best for '09.

Have fun everyone!!

Without a doubt! It's nothing to argue over.

I would like to add, most airport photography "rules" are in place for "Commercial Filming/Photography". If it's patrons of the airport, then it's up to the airport/tennant to govern that and post the rules accordingly. If it is not posted but is in a place that is not reasonably acceptable for viewing by the general public, then that's a gray area and lawyers would jump on that in a heartbeat.

Quoting Fergulmcc (Reply 29):
I don't need to be from the US of A to understand restrictions.

Well, how am I suppose to know how well you know our laws? I don't know you from Adam and to be honest, I don't trust many of our own lawmakers here in the "US of A" with our rights, let alone someone that isn't even from here. Let's be honest. Just because I have been to Texas doesn't mean I am a Texan nor do I claim to know Texas laws.  Wink

BTW, you can have the Guinness. I'll take my Wild Turkey and "White Lightning" any day over the watered down stuff.  Smile
 
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moo
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:58 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 26):
Bottom line is outside of two airports in the US, one of which I mentioned above, all airports are owned and governed by the municiple government in that city. That government is at the mercy of the voters and taxpayers. If they don't want pictures, POST IT! Otherwise, legally, they have absolutely no ground to stand on period! If you can prove otherwise about photography of airplanes from the terminal, I'd love to hear that as well.



Quoting Lexy (Reply 27):

But if an airport, or tennant, wants to prohibit photography from happening then a blanket statement has to be made and posted somewhere where the public (in this case) and employees are aware of the policies in place

As I posted above, the basis for limiting actions already has basis in law - under tresspass statutes. There is no need to post anything, or make a statement about anything, as its already established law and ignorance is no defence. If you do not refrain from an action when asked to desist, then you are open to a tresspass charge.

So yes, airports do have a legal leg to stand on - one thats been tried and tested many times. Also, remember that airports have CCTV everywhere.
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1878
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RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:16 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 31):



Quoting Moo (Reply 32):

OK I think we've battered this one out long enough, You do your photography and I'll do mine

Quoting Lexy (Reply 26):
as long as it's away form the security checkpoints.

Not trying to make an argument but is this in your constitution?? How is ok to photograph planes but not the security. You're still in the Airport grounds??!!

Fergul  sun 
 
JohnJ
Posts: 1386
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:01 am

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:44 pm



Quoting Lexy (Reply 27):
I think we are all splitting hairs here and dancing around the same point. We can all agree that if asked to stop, you stop no questions asked. But that doesn't mean you have to "take it". If you feel as though your rights have been violated as a citizen of the US, then you have the right to seek a higher power on the issue and you should. What's the use of having a freedom like that when you don't use it you know?

I can think of only two instances that I've been stopped from taking pictures at an airport. Once was in Memphis where an airport police officer pulled the "photography at airports is illegals since 9/11" line on me. I complied with his wishes, but called the airport public relations office when I got home. They told me what I was doing was perfectly fine and I could take all the pictures I wanted from the location where I was shooting. I went back out the next day, but before doing so called both airport operations and the desk sergeant at the airport to tell them my intentions, mentioning the conversation with public relations. They said I was fine to carry on with my photography plans.

The second incident was at JFK, when a Swissport employee asked me to delete my pictures from my memory card. Again I complied (actually, I erased one shot of about 30 I'd taken and that satisfied her), and I called the Port Authority, which runs the airport, when I got home. And once again, I was told what I was doing broke no rule as long as I wasn't shooting near a security checkpoint.

My point here is that in most airports in the United States, if you're told you can't take pictures in the airport, the person telling you this is likely overstepping their authority. Many times these people are contractors (like with my Swissport incident). Not only are there no laws against in-terminal photography, I've never heard of an airport authority with any kind of regulation against this activity.
 
mjlewis
Topic Author
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:32 pm

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:14 pm

I think I started a pretty good thread for my first one on here!

Fergul: I'll take ya up on that pint (or a few) if I ever take a trip to Shannon or Dublin with my dad haha
 
woodfinx
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:10 pm

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:17 am

I don't know what Nashville you live in, but its not the same one the rest of us live in. Sounds like some sort of photography fantasy land.
 
DB777
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:16 pm

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:41 am

 
mjlewis
Topic Author
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:32 pm

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:50 am

DB777: great find! I must say, thats exactly what we ALL needed!
 
Dazed767
Posts: 5007
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:55 am

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:00 am

There was another USA today article that was posted here years back (I've been looking for it but no luck). The story was someone got harassed for taking photos of their plane at the gate. USA today had a spokesperson for the TSA respond and pretty much say your safe to do so.

Here's a clip from Don's article that sums it up;

And yes, you can shoot on private property if it's open to the public. That includes malls, retails stores, Starbucks, banks, and office-building lobbies. If you're asked to stop and refuse, you run the risk of being charged with trespassing, but your pictures are yours. No one can legally take your camera or your memory card without a court order.

You can also shoot in subways and at airports. Check your local laws about the subway, but in New York, Washington, and San Francisco it's perfectly legal. Airport security is regulated by the Transportation Security Administration, and it's quite clear: Photography is A-OK at any commercial airport in the U.S. as long as you're in an area open to the public.

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
 
soon7x7
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:15 am



Quoting Mjlewis (Thread starter):

Last fall an associate and myself embarked on a shooting session near JFK one sunny Sat. morning. I had never been to this location before but I was loaded to the gills with equipment, cases, chairs, everything. About 45 minutes into our outing, I hear vehicles pulling into the public park we were recording from. I paid no mind to the distraction as I am sure It was the police....after ten minutes of hearing vehicles pulling up...we were approached by no less than 8, yes eight NYPD officers. they opened up conversation by stating that..."you can't do that here!"...My response was..."do what exactly?"...SHE replied the obvious...you can't take pictures here in a public park. I assured her you can. She then said said..."only if you have a permit"....My reply....If I were shooting for revenue I would need a permit. So then she tried the"You can't take pictures of airplanes!"...stuff...My reply...Sure we can, it is not illegal....So then she hit me with the 9/11 crap....My response....Why has 9/11 made photography taboo to you guys and gals...A male officer chimed in...DATA ACQUISITION!...I laughed...My reply...You mean to tell me that no suspecting characters have the ability to take pictures with their cell phones, no suspecting characters can draw pictures?...Subsequently they knew they had nothing here so they tried the identification thing...I gave them my drivers license, pilots license, actual emails from publications and airlines requesting work from me, personal biz cards of connections I have developed over the years, yet they kept asking for more, so I gave them color xerox's of my published work with dates, captions etc...I finally asked them why they had no coffee and donuts with them since it was so early and we were so hungry...That broke the ice... They had us for an hour...all the while I kept shooting...they ultimetely let us go and the day was great...my friend needed a valium as he is not used to being approached the way we were, but the final outcome was we were all joking around by the end and ALL were talking aviation...I did however ask them if they ever got the guy that planted seven 35mm rounds through the park sign which should concern them as the sign, after bullit penetration would have the trajectory of the rounds cross the immediate short final path to runway 4 right at JFK...THEY NEVER NOTICED THE BULLIT HOLES BEFORE!
Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 683 File size: 226kb
note seven bullit holes in sign and jet short final...
 
Dazed767
Posts: 5007
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:55 am

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:18 am

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/colum...roubleshooter/troubleshooter18.htm

FOUND IT!

Answer: There's no rule against snapping a photo of your plane, at least not according to the TSA.

"That's ridiculous and I'm sorry that your reader had to deal with that nonsense," says Lauren Stover, a TSA spokeswoman. "We all know what planes look like from the outside."


Worth the 20 mins looking for that article haha. I used to have this printed and in my bag.
 
Lexy
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:05 am

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:04 am



Quoting Woodfinx (Reply 36):
I don't know what Nashville you live in, but its not the same one the rest of us live in. Sounds like some sort of photography fantasy land.

Care to prove me wrong Woodie??

I'd love to see what you and your fanboi's come up with.
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1878
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 pm

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:32 am



Quoting Mjlewis (Reply 35):
Fergul: I'll take ya up on that pint (or a few) if I ever take a trip to Shannon or Dublin with my dad haha

Sounds good to me!

Fergul  sun 
 
woodfinx
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:10 pm

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:32 am

Sure, as soon as you explain to me how a publicly owned airport means that you, as a "tax paying citizen", are allowed to go wherever you would like to take pictures.

Keep in mind when you reply that generalizations severely reflect ignorance.
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1878
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 pm

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:43 am



Quoting Woodfinx (Reply 44):
Sure, as soon as you explain to me how a publicly owned airport means that you, as a "tax paying citizen", are allowed to go wherever you would like to take pictures.

Oh but he can . . . . .  wink  . . .Except for the security Areas!

Quoting Lexy (Reply 26):
I have spoke to airport officials all over my area of the US and they all have agreed that taking pictures inside the airport terminal is fine as long as it's away form the security checkpoints.

Look, I have said it and so have others and we can all agree that it's not illegal to take photos of planes. But once you are inside the grounds of an airport you are bound by their rules and if they say no photographs then you must comply with the airport authorities, public, private or not.

Fergul  sun 
 
mjlewis
Topic Author
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:32 pm

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:29 am

And like I said, I complied, but then once he left I took it back out, yes sort of hoping to draw his attention again and that way I could have a more in depth conversation with him about the rights and so forth, but he did not come back around. I'm VERY good with remembering people, so I'm sure when I'm up in EWR again I'll come across him and I may mention something to him...
 
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moo
Posts: 5117
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:53 pm



Quoting DB777 (Reply 37):
I think a bunch of you need to read:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columni...x.htm

And that says exactly what I have been saying all along:

Quote:

And yes, you can shoot on private property if it's open to the public. That includes malls, retails stores, Starbucks, banks, and office-building lobbies. If you're asked to stop and refuse, you run the risk of being charged with trespassing, but your pictures are yours

 
JohnJ
Posts: 1386
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:01 am

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:56 pm



Quoting Fergulmcc (Reply 45):
But once you are inside the grounds of an airport you are bound by their rules and if they say no photographs then you must comply with the airport authorities, public, private or not.

I don't think anyone here is arguing against this point. The problem comes in when staff/police make up their own rules, which is most often the case when we have run-ins at the terminal. A gate agent, Swissport employee, or airport police officer can't arbitrarily decide to prohibit someone from taking pictures if the owner/operator of the airport doesn't restrict such activity or if there is no law against it.
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1878
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 pm

RE: I Got In Trouble In EWR!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:21 pm



Quoting JohnJ (Reply 48):
A gate agent, Swissport employee, or airport police officer can't arbitrarily decide to prohibit someone from taking pictures if the owner/operator of the airport doesn't restrict such activity or if there is no law against it.

Agreed but if they call the relevant authorities and they say stop weather its policy or not you have to comply.

Look, bottom line I agree in a way of fighting your corner, but in this instance your life can become quite difficult if you get on the wrong side of these people.
Outside the fence, is another story!

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