Hi all,
I was planning a trip to Russia later this year but the loss of a few contracts (due to the economic downturn) has left my finances in question.
I was wondering, where this year will be the best places to photograph (preferably) older Soviet types, i.e. Tu-134, Tu-154, Yak-40, Yak-42, Il-62, Il-76, An-24, An-26, An-12. I'm looking at HAJ and BCN at the minute but am unsure how long such aircraft will be allowed to fly freely around Europe. By the look of things at the moment it's up to individual governments what they let in (SZG has already banned all old non-CATIII types) as I've seen recent (2009) images of Tu-134s, Tu-154s, Il-62s etc. in Holland, Switzerland and Germany and also I saw an An-12 at AGP in December.
Thanks for any comments/ideas.
Karl
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
That's something I'd like to know as well!
I just love old Russian iron and had hopes that I would see some at UMKK when I was there in october, but all I got was KD-Avia 737's and Air Baltic F50's
Going to HAJ during CeBit and staying at the Maritim Airport Hotel, so I hope there is a chance for the odd one there as well. HAJ-spotter.de and antonov124.de has lists of regular Russian guests and their types. Most seems to be on summer schedules though.
I just love old Russian iron and had hopes that I would see some at UMKK when I was there in october, but all I got was KD-Avia 737's and Air Baltic F50's
Going to HAJ during CeBit and staying at the Maritim Airport Hotel, so I hope there is a chance for the odd one there as well. HAJ-spotter.de and antonov124.de has lists of regular Russian guests and their types. Most seems to be on summer schedules though.
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
Yes John, all Russian visitors to both HAJ and BCN tend to be summer charters (May-Oct I believe are the better times, with Jun/Jul/Aug/Sep being particularly busy), but for how long these services will see Soviet types I really don't know.
I don't want to book several HAJ/BCN trips only to find that it's entirely western-built airliners! Also, does it all happen on Saturdays in summer or is there stuff on Fridays too?
Cheers,
Karl
I don't want to book several HAJ/BCN trips only to find that it's entirely western-built airliners! Also, does it all happen on Saturdays in summer or is there stuff on Fridays too?
Cheers,
Karl
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
If you can stretch as far as Turkey - Antalya or Istanbul (and perhaps other airports) appear to get a good quanitity and variety of Russian traffic still - especially the summer period. Should be possible to get a cheap flight out there at that time of year. . . .
Cheers, Paul
Cheers, Paul
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
Yes, I've seen some of the stuff at Antalya, but isn't photography there a bit of a problem if they catch you?
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
PRM is right.All Russian types l mean Tu-134, Tu-154, Yak-40, Yak-42, Il-62, Il-76, An-24, An-26, An-12.you can find AYT and IST.Especially summer time!
l guess Russian types banned in Europe.l think very dangerous all world airport.
Jak l can give you my amatour shot if u want.
[Edited 2009-02-19 02:14:07]
l guess Russian types banned in Europe.l think very dangerous all world airport.
Jak l can give you my amatour shot if u want.
[Edited 2009-02-19 02:14:07]
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
| Quoting JakTrax (Thread starter): I was wondering, where this year will be the best places to photograph (preferably) older Soviet types, |
I've been asking myself the same question.
Last time I've seen a Tu-134 was at Istanbul-Atatürk in August 2006, don't remember the airline. An Uzbekistani Tu-154 and several Ukranian Yak-42s as well. Photography isn't too much of a problem there. Does anybody know of Tupolev schedules into IST today?
Istanbul-Sabiha Gokcen is very interesting, with Il-62s, Il-76s and even Il-18s. Unfortunately it looks like a fortress with plenty of manned watchtowers. Perhaps approach shots are possible somewhere.
Tivat, Montenegro looks like a great little airport for photography, but the Russian types seem to be gone. Certainly, the Il-86s are now banned there.
I saw a report with some Russian types from Sharm El Sheik, on the Sinai peninsula in Egypt. Photography is said to be possible too from hotel areas. Maybe an idea if you want a sun holiday anyway, but probably not worth a dedicated trip.
I don't know how photographers are received in Ukraine today, but anyway the database suggests that the Kiev airports, at least, are no longer particularly good for Russian jets.
By far the best country is obviously Russia, but from what I've heard it's still advisable to be with a local who can speak to the uniformed people you may encounter. Maybe Moscow-Domodedovo will be organizing spotting days. I've also looked into Sochi (AER) on the Black Sea, a busy enough airport with an approach over the beach. But security is apparently tight.
In the EU, I think it's now very difficult to see Russian jets except Yak-42s, An-124s and the odd Tu-154. One place still getting Il-76s is Chalons-Vatry in France, which is so in the middle of nowhere that it has no noise restrictions apparently. But I don't know how frequent they are.
I just read that Russian president Medvedev is due to visit the Netherlands on 19 June. This will probably mean an Il-96 and perhaps an Il-76?
Peter
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
| Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 6): I don't know how photographers are received in Ukraine today, but anyway the database suggests that the Kiev airports, at least, are no longer particularly good for Russian jets. |
Kiev isn't as interesting as it was. Apart from the few YAK-42's, one or two An-140's (which spend the day there) the isn't too much going on.
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- whisperjet
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RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
Hi,
I would also say that AYT is the place to go if not Russia (though not in EU)
With more and more Russian airlines getting Western aircraft the traffic is already not what it used to be anymore but at least summer season 2008 was still quite good.
If it only the situation for spotter was better over there. I've been thinking about going there for quite a while now and read everything I could find about spotting in AYT.
Experiences are ranking from ramp access (!!!) to a night in jail.
Another big plus is that you can get it rather cheap and the west is almost always good, though probably too warm in summer, so I think early autumn would be best (traffic seems to be ok until end of September).
Stefan
I would also say that AYT is the place to go if not Russia (though not in EU)
With more and more Russian airlines getting Western aircraft the traffic is already not what it used to be anymore but at least summer season 2008 was still quite good.
If it only the situation for spotter was better over there. I've been thinking about going there for quite a while now and read everything I could find about spotting in AYT.
Experiences are ranking from ramp access (!!!) to a night in jail.
Another big plus is that you can get it rather cheap and the west is almost always good, though probably too warm in summer, so I think early autumn would be best (traffic seems to be ok until end of September).
Stefan
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- Travelralf
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RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
| Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 6): One place still getting Il-76s is Chalons-Vatry in France, which is so in the middle of nowhere |
There is another airport with nearly daily Il76 movements in the middle of nowhere: Trollenhagen in Germany (150km north of Berlin)
Check this link (in german but with lots of pictures):
http://www.flugzeugforum.de/forum/showthread.php?t=20659&page=305
What about Larnaca / Cyprus ? I think they still got some Tupolev movements last year.
Ralf
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
Karl, I believe the best person to ask that question would be Fyodor Borisov. He is a very decent guy, and he might be able to help you. You could write him using the A.net photo feedback feature.
Cheers,
Andrei
Cheers,
Andrei
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
Thanks all. If anyone can offer further assistance please do! Seems like chasing old Ruskies is becoming a popular past-time for us photog's.....
I think wherever you go in Europe these days you can still pick up the odd Soviet type, however I want to go somewhere (again) where I can pick them up in large numbers.
Cheers,
Karl
I think wherever you go in Europe these days you can still pick up the odd Soviet type, however I want to go somewhere (again) where I can pick them up in large numbers.
Cheers,
Karl
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- boeingfreak
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RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
A good question, Karl.
I've seen pictures of some very exotic IL-76s photographed at Geilenkirchen, but you won't find any Tu-134s or IL-62s in the E.U., they have been banned due to noise regulations.
I'd love to visit Russia and to spot at Moscow, however what holds me back is, that I'm terribly afraid of getting robbed (some thousand Euro camera equipment) or put in jail for photographing at the airport. Especially because the only russian words I know is Aeroflot and Nastrovje
Does anybody have more info about that?
Florian
I've seen pictures of some very exotic IL-76s photographed at Geilenkirchen, but you won't find any Tu-134s or IL-62s in the E.U., they have been banned due to noise regulations.
I'd love to visit Russia and to spot at Moscow, however what holds me back is, that I'm terribly afraid of getting robbed (some thousand Euro camera equipment) or put in jail for photographing at the airport. Especially because the only russian words I know is Aeroflot and Nastrovje
Does anybody have more info about that?
Florian
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- petertenthije
- Posts: 4972
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RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
The Royal Netherlands Air Force has a long term charter contract with Zitotrans for IL-76s. They fly into Eindhoven at least twice a week. Usually ETA monday at 08:00 and ETA on thursday around 12:00. Departure is usually the next day. Of course these being military charters they do not fly to a timetable so changes are possible.
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
Karl mate, I did two weeks in Crete (HER) last Summer and was amazed by the number of TU5 I saw there. IIRC there was 27 that I saw but I am sure I heard more. Operators included:
Rossiya
Samara
Aeroflot
KMV
Globus
Tartastan
There was also Kras, Yamal, Vim, Aurela, Aeroflot Nord, Transaero, Redwings, Atlant Soyuz and S7 using various eqpt which could be an indication that they could also send in something half decent, providing it is in their fleet?
Will do Rhodes this June in the hope of more of the same.
Spence.
Rossiya
Samara
Aeroflot
KMV
Globus
Tartastan
There was also Kras, Yamal, Vim, Aurela, Aeroflot Nord, Transaero, Redwings, Atlant Soyuz and S7 using various eqpt which could be an indication that they could also send in something half decent, providing it is in their fleet?
Will do Rhodes this June in the hope of more of the same.
Spence.
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- whisperjet
- Posts: 504
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RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
| Quoting Boeingfreak (Reply 12): I've seen pictures of some very exotic IL-76s photographed at Geilenkirchen, but you won't find any Tu-134s or IL-62s in the E.U., they have been banned due to noise regulations. |
The IL-76 and An-124 are more or less scheduled visitors to Geilenkirchen. I think the IL7 arrives there on wednesday mornings.
Stefan
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
| Quoting Spencer (Reply 14): Karl mate, I did two weeks in Crete (HER) last Summer and was amazed by the number of TU5 I saw there. Rossiya Samara Aeroflot KMV Globus Tartastan |
That's because the old Soviet types are used now mainly for tourist charter flights. If you want to see them - go to the holiday making destinations, that are most popular with the Russians.
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
Thanks all.
To be honest I thought Greece and Cyprus had banned many Soviet types. Almost all old smokers are now confined to charter work, however at some big IT destinations (PMI, AGP for example) Russian movements are scarce. Looks like the eastern Med is the best place - Greek isles, Turkey, Egypt, Cyprus.
Finally, HAJ and BCN are the big western European 'Russian hubs' in summer - anyone know if that will continue in 2009?
Thanks,
Karl
To be honest I thought Greece and Cyprus had banned many Soviet types. Almost all old smokers are now confined to charter work, however at some big IT destinations (PMI, AGP for example) Russian movements are scarce. Looks like the eastern Med is the best place - Greek isles, Turkey, Egypt, Cyprus.
Finally, HAJ and BCN are the big western European 'Russian hubs' in summer - anyone know if that will continue in 2009?
Thanks,
Karl
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
| Quoting Boeingfreak (Reply 12): A good question, Karl. I've seen pictures of some very exotic IL-76s photographed at Geilenkirchen, but you won't find any Tu-134s or IL-62s in the E.U., they have been banned due to noise regulations. |
I saw a ukranian tu-134 in CPH wednesday and got some bad pictures of it, and one ofmy classmates saw a IL62 in CPH sometime within the last 6 months
/Lars
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
I don't know what your budget is but you can always go on one of those organized tours to Russia and see everything. They give ramp access to all the major airports in Moscow and even some military ones. No need to worry about language or getting robbed as it is all organized. And they usually originate from England as well.
However if you don't want to do that it seems Vnukovo or Domodedovo are the best for getting the most variety. There are some spots around the airport where you can photograph with ease.
Additionally if you want to go to Turkey or Madrid keep in mind that right now Kras Air, Domodedovo airlines, Samara and Omskavia are defunct and no longer flying so a large part of the traffic that was there before will not be there this year for this reason.
However if you don't want to do that it seems Vnukovo or Domodedovo are the best for getting the most variety. There are some spots around the airport where you can photograph with ease.
Additionally if you want to go to Turkey or Madrid keep in mind that right now Kras Air, Domodedovo airlines, Samara and Omskavia are defunct and no longer flying so a large part of the traffic that was there before will not be there this year for this reason.
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- boeingfreak
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RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
| Quoting Larshjort (Reply 18): I saw a ukranian tu-134 in CPH wednesday and got some bad pictures of it, and one ofmy classmates saw a IL62 in CPH sometime within the last 6 months |
Yes, but those most likely were special government flights.
| Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 19): I don't know what your budget is but you can always go on one of those organized tours to Russia and see everything. They give ramp access to all the major airports in Moscow and even some military ones. No need to worry about language or getting robbed as it is all organized |
Cool, didn't know something like this existed, where can I get more information about that, do you maybe have a link?
Florian
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
| Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 19): However if you don't want to do that it seems Vnukovo or Domodedovo are the best for getting the most variety. There are some spots around the airport where you can photograph with ease. |
If you do that, you better first try and contact some local spotters to find someone who would be willing to show you around. If you are not familiar with the area and speak no Russian, doing it on your own wouldn't be a very smart idea. Even the local Russian spotters who know what they are doing get in trouble every now and then.
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
I also forgot to mention that S7 Siberia airlines has stopped using all Russian equipment so their Tu-154 and Il-86 will also not be seen at Antalya and the other places you would normally see them before. I believe Atlant Soyuz has stopped almost all their Il-86 as well.
http://www.aeroprints.com/home.html
Also there is another company called Alpha Mike Tours
[Edited 2009-02-21 23:31:54]
[Edited 2009-02-21 23:32:32]
| Quoting Boeingfreak (Reply 20): Cool, didn't know something like this existed, where can I get more information about that, do you maybe have a link? |
http://www.aeroprints.com/home.html
Also there is another company called Alpha Mike Tours
[Edited 2009-02-21 23:31:54]
[Edited 2009-02-21 23:32:32]
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- metroliner
- Posts: 846
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RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
| Quoting Spencer (Reply 14): Will do Rhodes this June in the hope of more of the same. Spence. |
Hi Spencer, I visited Rhodes last year and it seemed that during the day, the Soviets were very thin on the ground. It isn't sleepy by any stretch of the imagination generally, but not ideal for photography and mostly just UK charters!
Crete sounds amazing though!
Toni
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
| Quoting Metroliner (Reply 23): Crete sounds amazing though! |
The photo spots are not so amazing, judging by the database. I'd much prefer to try Larnaca.
Peter
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- metroliner
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RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
| Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 24): The photo spots are not so amazing, judging by the database. I'd much prefer to try Larnaca. Peter |
Larnaca looks very viable, too.
Isn't it Corfu / Kerkyra with the amazing approach between the hills and over the lagoon?
*runs to Google Earth*
Seems I'm thinking of the approach to runway 35 at Corfu.
I've seen a couple of Soviets there in the database...RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
Hi,
yes it's clearly getting rare to see any soviet type AC in western Europe. And the economic crisis in Russia shut down many little airlines that were using them like Samara or Dalavia...
Add to that that Sibir has grounded most -154 and all -86s...
- Aeroflot retiring all russian type AC (though they'll still fly with Aeroflot-Don/Nord for a while)
- The collapse of Air Union grounded the last civilian flying Il-62
I went several times in Russia spotting in all 3 major Mscow airports and I can only repeat what has been said about the utility of contacting locals for your security and also to reach the good spots. A few thoughts I would add :
- VKO is your best bet for max Soviet type AC thanks to the heavy presence of UTair and their never ending Tu-134/-154 movements all day long. Numerous VIP Tu-134. Rossyia gov fleet means with some chance Il-62/96, Tu-154 and also the rare Il-18, all still flying.
- DMO is very nice in terms of variety but what is still flying in terms of soviet AC... dunno but I hace doubts...
- SVO offers poor variety with a daminance of Aeroflot bird but offers the occasional Il-86 and some military cargo Movements.
In western Europe the best chances are by far the governments movements (usually 2 Il-96 1x Tu-154 1x Il-76 and 1x Il-62) and the usuall charters flights (football, summer vacations) as well as some rare VIP. Here in GVA we get quiet a lot Yak-42s and the occasional Tu-154 or even TU-134. An-12 and Il-76 are also occasionnal visitors for cargo operations.
Best regards
Alex
yes it's clearly getting rare to see any soviet type AC in western Europe. And the economic crisis in Russia shut down many little airlines that were using them like Samara or Dalavia...
Add to that that Sibir has grounded most -154 and all -86s...
- Aeroflot retiring all russian type AC (though they'll still fly with Aeroflot-Don/Nord for a while)
- The collapse of Air Union grounded the last civilian flying Il-62
I went several times in Russia spotting in all 3 major Mscow airports and I can only repeat what has been said about the utility of contacting locals for your security and also to reach the good spots. A few thoughts I would add :
- VKO is your best bet for max Soviet type AC thanks to the heavy presence of UTair and their never ending Tu-134/-154 movements all day long. Numerous VIP Tu-134. Rossyia gov fleet means with some chance Il-62/96, Tu-154 and also the rare Il-18, all still flying.
- DMO is very nice in terms of variety but what is still flying in terms of soviet AC... dunno but I hace doubts...
- SVO offers poor variety with a daminance of Aeroflot bird but offers the occasional Il-86 and some military cargo Movements.
In western Europe the best chances are by far the governments movements (usually 2 Il-96 1x Tu-154 1x Il-76 and 1x Il-62) and the usuall charters flights (football, summer vacations) as well as some rare VIP. Here in GVA we get quiet a lot Yak-42s and the occasional Tu-154 or even TU-134. An-12 and Il-76 are also occasionnal visitors for cargo operations.
Best regards
Alex
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
Karl,
if you wanna photograph some smokers, LEJ (with the DHL European Hub) might be worth to be looked at........most of the props leave early in the morning, 5:30am and later. In the summertime not a problem to catch them!
View Large View Medium
Photo © Vasco Garcia (VDG-Images)
and you might be able to see 5 or 6 AN124 side by side
Vasco
if you wanna photograph some smokers, LEJ (with the DHL European Hub) might be worth to be looked at........most of the props leave early in the morning, 5:30am and later. In the summertime not a problem to catch them!
Photo © Vasco Garcia (VDG-Images)
and you might be able to see 5 or 6 AN124 side by side
Vasco
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
| Quoting Alex22 (Reply 26): The collapse of Air Union grounded the last civilian flying Il-62 |
I don't think this is completely true. I think Interavia still flies the Il-62. Also Air Koryo and some handful of Il-62 in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.
To expand on what you said.
SVO - For now still Tu-154 from SU. Also Tu-134 and Tu-154B from Aeroflot Nord and Il-86 from Aeroflot-Don. Il-96 from SU as well. The rest is mostly Boeing/Airbus.
DME - Lots of boring S7 Airbuses. The most interesting thing here is the Tu-154B-2 from Ural Airlines. Also some Tu-134 and sometimes cargo Il-62 and Il-76. If Interavia still fly the Il-62 it will be here.
VKO - By far the best of all three. Tu-154M and Tu-154B can be seen. Lots of Tu-134. Also don't forget the Yak-40 and An-24 based here. Il-86 by Atlant Soyuz I think have been grounded but there is a photo of one flying in December so they might still be around.
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
| Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 28): I don't think this is completely true. I think Interavia still flies the Il-62. Also Air Koryo and some handful of Il-62 in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. |
You are right, I meant in Russia mainly (Cubana being another airline still flying the -62), don't think that Interavia uses them now but it could be a p0ssibility. Flying an Il-62 is my summer goal so I'll keep a close eye on who might still use them next summer. Any info welcomed.
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
Thanks for all the input guys. My Russian portfolio is actually pretty good but, being greedy, I want more! I've been to Moscow before in 2005 but very much doubt, with all the other trips I've booked this year, that I'll be able to go back.
Luckily I've picked up quite a few prop-powered Antonovs at one of my locals, EMA, where several are based.
Karl
Luckily I've picked up quite a few prop-powered Antonovs at one of my locals, EMA, where several are based.
Karl
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
Very interesting reading here. Looks like it's getting quite hard to find them these days. I wish I had gone to RUssia while my friend was studying in St Petersburg.
We obvioulsy get the odd Antonovs and IL76s. Is the Tu 204 still operating into EMA for Icelandair Cargo?
We used to get the Balkan Holidays Tu 154 too. The good old day.
Andy S
| Quoting JakTrax (Reply 30): Luckily I've picked up quite a few prop-powered Antonovs at one of my locals, EMA, where several are based. |
We obvioulsy get the odd Antonovs and IL76s. Is the Tu 204 still operating into EMA for Icelandair Cargo?
We used to get the Balkan Holidays Tu 154 too. The good old day.
Andy S
RE: Old Soviet Types In The E.U.
The Tu-204 only operated for Icelandair for a few weeks - all back to Leipzig now I'm afraid.
Karl
Karl
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