Do You Also Feel Discouraged?

ake0404ar · Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:15 pm

Hey guys,

I have been uploading for roughly 10 years now. In the beginning I pretty much uploaded everything, even a take off sequence which was accepted a few hours later.

10 years later ........

I just browsed thru my database and looking for some shots worth to be processed and uploaded, based on the current upload rules and criteria.

And to be honest I feel quite discouraged to upload most of the shots.
- Panning shots at 1/15sec shot with ISO 400 or 800 (I am afraid there is too much grain in it)
- close up details or technically not perfect (I am afraid that this will be a motive rejection)
- Border line in terms of quality, still an interesting shot (as far as i am concerned)

Bottom line is that it used to be fun, but for me at least the fun is long gone.........

Anyone feels the same way?

Vasco

JRadier · Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:35 pm

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
Bottom line is that it used to be fun, but for me at least the fun is long gone.........

I feel exactly the same... Used to be fun but I can't be bothered anymore. Got plenty of shots that would probably get accepted and are interesting, but a lack of time and all the issues over the past months/years haven't exactly helped my mood either.....

spencer · Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:46 pm

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
fun is long gone.........

Anyone feels the same way?

Yes and no.
The fun will (hopefully) always be there, I love aviation too much. But I'm guessing you mean the upload process? Well, here's the funny thing... I just had a few go on, and all of a sudden that period of feeling like I couldn't do anything "right" vanished in an instance! Hahaha, so weird. The ratio rocketed (up this time...), and it's given me hope again.
Had you asked this a week or two ago, I'd be jumping in having your back. But one thing I will say and that's that something definitely has happened around here. You can see it affecting others too, just by browsing the forum every now and again. People do have issues with A.net, it's a simple as that. And I suppose the big deal is A.net don't seem to be doing much about it.
Oh and Vas, don't worry man, I can guarantee you you're not the only one with great shots that don't match A.net's standards. Their loss mate.
Spence.

RonS · Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:33 pm

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
I am afraid that this will be a motive rejection

In my opinion Motive rejections do hamper the process. I can understand all the other rejection reasons (well maybe not Duplicate) however Motive is silly. When you have a nice shot but maybe some wheels are obscurred and you get a Motive rejection, that kind of thing. Everyone knows wheels are round, I don't need to see them on every photo. Expansion of allowed shots and loosening of criteria will benefit all. And no, I don't mean loosening of Quality. Vasco - I'm sure your 400 and 800 ISO are still high quality.

I can see how people can get bored with plain shots. My AA shot below is fine, but I really don't feel the need to take more of them. I don't want shots like this:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ronald J Stella

I would rather take shots like this:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sigurdur Benediktsson

And this:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mark Garfinkel

Or this:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vasco Garcia (VDG-Images)

Yes, Anet has loosened up the Creative rule a little bit it seems. But it needs to be taken further to increase views, keep people from being bored (both looking at them...hence dwindling views AND taking/shooting them). I believe there are new and old refreshing photos out there that have been rejected for motive or found to be outside the bounds of what Anet wants. But there are people that want to view these Creative shots (or Technically incorrect shots) regardless of what Anet wants...people want new and refreshing, and people want to be able to take new and refreshing shots.

I guess that leads me to the whole rejection issue, in regards to it being a deterrent to trying new things, but I don't feel like going there tonight!

I'm going to keep trying to get more and more creative myself at least, and be proud of my measely 30% rejection ratio

Vasco - a visit to Beantown might help as well, nothing like getting back to your roots!

R

[Edited 2009-10-19 15:40:08]

waketurbulence · Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:55 pm

I don't feel discouraged as much as I feel bored. I hardly look at any photos now in the large view. I click on maybe 5 of the top 50 in a given day, and I don't look much further than that. I don't know what it is about Anet, but it is not as fun as it used to be. Shooting for me is still fun, meeting people is fun, and going to airshows etc is fun. But uploading, getting questionable rejections sometimes, seeing all the pre/post screening threads, site outages, searches not working, way lower than average views, and as Ron said "boring shots" - All those things are not fun.
-Matt

jetmatt777 · Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:18 pm

Quoting WakeTurbulence (Reply 4):

I second what Matt said.

It is also a shame it only takes 600 or so views to make it on to the front page. Back 3 years ago when I had my first big hitter, I had 8,000 views in the first 24 hours and was still 8th or 9th in line for the homepage. And I timed out before I made it to the top.

lennymuir · Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:23 pm

Hello Vasco

I think I've been around here for the last 9 years now. That's along time.
I'm not discouraged, just a wee bit wiser.

I know what you mean and I can guess pretty accurately, from what I shoot,
what will be accepted and what won't get in.
I still like try to upload an obtuse shot now and again.
Rarely is it ever a success, they're usually binned.
I hardly appeal either.
Can't recall the last time any of my appealed shots ever broke ranks.

Sad to say, I'm content enough to upload my 'safe' shots
here and send my 'marginal' shots into other unscreened websites.

Gerry

NIKV69 · Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:32 pm

Can't say I agree or feel that way. I would take some time off and discover that big world out there. Do some other things besides photography for a bit and come back. I do that from time to time and it keeps me fresh and always wanting to improve and take things up to the next level.

UltimateDelta · Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:04 am

I admit I sometimes get that way (3/52 obviously isn't great, but whatcha gonna do?). I agree with Ron about motive, though. I have numerous shots that have assorted airport vehicles in various positions. I think these make much more 'real' pictures, and I don't see what the problem is unless, of course, they cover up a majority of the plane. That is my main complaint with the editing process (Oh sure, there's more Wink

).

I think the most important thing is to just be persistent.

Silver1SWA · Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:04 am

This topic comes up of from time to time, but I think for the first time we are seeing some big names jumping in and that adds some weight to the issue IMO. Airliners.net is facing a tough time right now and I hope the folks behind the scenes take notice soon.

I've been very active in my photography over the past month. Been doing some travelling and a lot of shooting. I have a lengthy backlog of images for upload, but I just haven't built up the desire to do so. I have been putting all of my effort into getting my stuff on flickr, a site where a typical image of mine only gets 20-30 views on average. I just have more fun and a lot less frustration over there...and I get a lot more comments which is something I enjoy more than hits. I can also display stuff that doesn't fit the a.net mold. Stuff that many people still enjoy viewing.

Like Vasco, I do a lot of shooting in conditions where ISO 400 or 800 is necessary. While images at ISO levels that high are often perfectly acceptable in the "real" world of photography, they stand no chance or need a ton of work in order to have the slightest chance here. The grain/noise standards here are getting way too high IMO. To have to limit yourself so much just to get something accepted here is very discouraging.

cpd · Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:29 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 9):
they stand no chance or need a ton of work in order to have the slightest chance here.

Not really true. Though maybe a great camera helps - however, if you use the camera properly, you'll get great images, even at ISO1250. There are numerous examples of high ISO photographs in the database, from recent times. And it's not only a Nikon D3 / D700 monopoly. Even a hack like me can snap an image at 1/50sec and ISO1250 and get it accepted here with good detail, sharpness and low noise. You just have to know your camera really well in those conditions. You can't misjudge the exposure - it must be perfect.

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
Anyone feels the same way?

Sometimes, but I keep coming back.

Maybe you need to take a break from this place and come back in a month or two with some more energy.

Silver1SWA · Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:40 am

Quoting Cpd (Reply 10):
Not really true. Though maybe a great camera helps

Some cameras will have an advantage here. Not all of us can afford super high-end cameras that boast excellent noise control at high ISOs.

Unless showing something spectacular, an image snapped and properly exposed with my 40D at ISO 1250 and up will be extremely difficult, if not impossible to get accepted here.

JakTrax · Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:11 pm

Without reading too much of this thread (my apologies if what I'm about to say has already been said) may I say that some of you seem far too obsessed with A.net? To be honest I still enjoy uploading but I'll never stop taking pictures of aircraft because I love it and do it for MY OWN satisfaction; no-one else's! I look through the day's haul and anything that takes my fancy for uploading I upload. Other stuff is either too mundane (why add another side-on Ryanair to the gazillions already in the database?!) or will potentially be subject to motive rules (which I can't be bothered to accurately decipher these days). If I deem a shot to be creative and I like it then it's a keeper for me, regardless of what A.net thinks. I know it's a good photo, and I dare say professional agencies would view it in the same way. What ain't good here is magnificent elsewhere half the time! I really wouldn't waste my time uploading anything creative here as (and I'm sorry to say) this site simply doesn't deserve to host such unique images.

An example of A.net complacency.....

I uploaded a shot of two Thomson 767-300s perfectly in line (one behind the other) waiting to enter the active at MAN. Quite a unique shot and the angles involved added to the image, however it was a bit soft on the titles so it got rejected for soft and... wait for it... common! Okay, so the aircraft might be common but not stuck in this sort of situation! So if this Thomson (Goid forbid!) was nose-diving into my house spurting flames out of the back it'd be done 'cos the 'plane's common??!!

I give up. That's why I stick to side-ons (albeit of aircraft others will hopefully find interesting)!

Karl

NicolasRubio · Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:27 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 13):
To be honest I still enjoy uploading but I'll never stop taking pictures of aircraft because I love it and do it for MY OWN satisfaction; no-one else's!

I think that was never questioned Karl!

zbot69 · Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:09 pm

Discouraged is a strong word. Disappointed, sure, but I'm becoming increasingly disinterested. The A.net I've apparently joined is a far shot from the A.net I used to enjoy as a casual surfer. I got 3 shots up on the site. Am I glad? Well... not really... because these shots are all so average. I've submitted some great shots, and they were all rejected for whatever reasons, and I've discovered that I have very little interest in investing serious manhours plottering through Photoshop to get one pic up to whatever "standards" are supposedly being thrown around here, when I can have the same shot online in less than 15 minutes with a few standard edits with any old imagery software. Sure it won't be as glitzy or "perfect", but who cares? It's all for the love of aviation, the people, and of course, the planes.

I go where my photos are, and my photos aren't here. It's just that simple. What's worse though... I get the distinct feeling my photos aren't welcome here.

Hey! Guess what... in another sign of the times, one of the major contributors to these forums just made the Top 4 on the "other" site under his same A.net handle. Haven't been able to see yet if he submitted the pic to A.net as well, or how it's faired here.

But there you have it. The other site allows me to upload, and A.net doesn't.

Where do you think I'm headed?

Cheers again all.

g38 · Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:30 pm

When I joined Anet, about a month ago it was really fun. I have yet to get a picture accepted. They keep telling me that there is digital noise in my photos, but then I look around the website and find tons of pictures that are not rare and are filled with digital noise. By now the fun has all but disappeared, and I am considering canceling my membership. I think we all have pictures that should be uploaded that get rejected. It is as Spencer already said, their loss.

Silver1SWA · Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:34 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 13):
Without reading too much of this thread (my apologies if what I'm about to say has already been said) may I say that some of you seem far too obsessed with A.net? To be honest I still enjoy uploading but I'll never stop taking pictures of aircraft because I love it and do it for MY OWN satisfaction; no-one else's

Karl,

I think everyone has made the point that they still enjoy the hobby. I think the best way describe how people are feeling about uploading here is they are becoming disinterested. So it's not an obsession with this place, it's quite the opposite.

Uploading here isn't as rewarding as it used to be.

timdegroot · Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:02 pm

I have periods when I don't shoot at all and periods when I am really in to it. Has very little do with a.net or any site...

Tim

JakTrax · Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:19 pm

Quoting G38 (Reply 16):
I think we all have pictures that should be uploaded that get rejected

This is very subjective and depends. No disrespect with you being pretty new but there is a difference between an image that intentionally goes against A.net's rejection reasons (motive and level spring to mind with some creatives) and one which accidentally and carelessly falls foul of them.

There are a lot of folks here who think it's their God-given right to get images accepted (not by any stretch suggesting this is you) no matter how imperfect they are, and these people rarely see (or want to see) faults in their work. If an image is dirty, blurry, bad colour or bad contrast then rightfully it should be rejected - unless of course there is a creative reason for the 'fault'. Many creatives rejected here unfortunately fall foul of these 'laws' which were originally adapted for profile (i.e. side-on) shots which simply showed the full aircraft and its livery. Where these 'laws' came from is subject for conjecture but it's generally believed to have stemmed from slide-shooting methods.

Now having such a profile shot with a completely unlevel horizon and a terrible cast is unaccpetable - however take a shot from an odd angle in strangle light and both unlevel and colour casts can actually enhance the image, if you see where I'm coming from.

In every thread this disheartening feeling is becoming apparent; highlighting the need for purposely creative (and not necessarily opportunistic) images to be treated and screened differently to what are obviously just profile shots. Telling the two apart shouldn't be too hard.

Karl

RonS · Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:56 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 20):
highlighting the need for purposely creative (and not necessarily opportunistic) images to be treated and screened differently to what are obviously just profile shots. Telling the two apart shouldn't be too hard.

OK along these lines, if you simply increased the quality to the baseline DSLR technology on the three older shots above (remove grain / noise for example's sake) would they be "accepted" through the screening process now? I am VERY eager to know the answer to this.

I find myself looking at these "old" shots often, and think of them as new and refreshing. However I then look at the date, and realize they are old and not new. Were they before the time of screening? I feel they capture more the spirit of aviation and photography combined then my plain (but sharp and high quality) AA 757 side one above. There is a valid point to documenting aircraft through photography (sort of like my AA shot), but to inspire people we need more creative shots, off center and not technically correct, but beatiful all the same. I think that is what people want to see, I know I do.

There is a ton of talent on this site, both new and old. Alot more talented than I. I just hope that those shots above would still make it in today's anet, because I believe that is what people want more of, and that they inspire people to take them and to look at them.

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
I have been uploading for roughly 10 years now.

That is a long time and I give you alot of credit. There is not much I have been doing for ten years straight.

Quoting AKE0404AR (Thread starter):
And to be honest I feel quite discouraged to upload most of the shots.

Well, you have a ton of fans out there, so get them uploaded.

Ron

[Edited 2009-10-20 14:01:48]

g38 · Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:30 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 20):
No disrespect with you being pretty new but there is a difference between an image that intentionally goes against A.net's rejection reasons (motive and level spring to mind with some creatives) and one which accidentally and carelessly falls foul of them.

I whole heartedly agree with you. They state pretty clearly that you should not upload something which you know will be rejected.

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 20):
There are a lot of folks here who think it's their God-given right to get images accepted (not by any stretch suggesting this is you) no matter how imperfect they are, and these people rarely see (or want to see) faults in their work.

I have only about 40 pictures in my library that I consider worthy of upload. At this point I would be happy to see just one of them get accepted. One problem I have with some of them is that now they are requiring the airport code and in a few cases I do not have this information.

Silver1SWA · Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:30 pm

Quoting JakTrax (Reply 20):
Quoting G38 (Reply 16):
I think we all have pictures that should be uploaded that get rejected

This is very subjective and depends.

This site rejects images that would in most other cases be perfectly acceptable in the photography world. As I try to grow as a photographer, I become less interested in keeping myself restricted to the bounds of airliners.net's criteria. That is not a complaint. I am not bitching about the standards here, it's just something that is contributing to my increasing lack of interest in putting forth the effort.

g38 · Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:39 pm

You can argue one way or another about how strict the screeners are, but one thing I think we should not is that you do have to draw the line somewhere or the website will become like its sister site, myaviation.net, where your chances of finding a given photo are zero. In doing so some good pics will be rejected, but even more bad pics will be kept out.

INNflight · Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:06 pm

Again, why do you people not just upload your shots if you know they are stretching the rules, but MAY have a chance?!

I feel like most people here are just sticking to the status quo because they literally are AFRAID of seeing their acceptance ratio drop. I really don't get that.

I haven't uploaded here in more than a year now, but my acceptance ratio is 48%, and used to be 90something a few years back. Still, who cares??

For me it would be a lot more refreshing to get one out of 10 photos in which bends the rules rather than not try at all.

And just for the record, there's plenty of photos in the DB which are "against" said rules simply because they work. No, I won't plug my Falcon 900 shot... Wink

g38 · Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:10 pm

Being that I am a new member I only get 2 uploads at a time, and since the screening process takes so long (understandably) I only upload my best. I need to maximize those 2 precious uploads.

Silver1SWA · Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:25 pm

Quoting INNflight (Reply 23):
I haven't uploaded here in more than a year now,

May I ask why you have stopped uploading here?

Just so we are clear, I am not afraid to upload anything. That is not what this is about. My acceptance ratio has climbed to a pretty good level but I don't let that determine my behavior. I only upload one or two photos at a time when I do upload anyway, so I couldn't care less about available slots.

I haven't uploaded much in the past 6 months and all I'm doing here is explaining why I have become less active and I have used this opportunity to voice my opinion since someone started a topic that I can relate to. I have noticed a difference in my attitude towards uploading here, my friends have noticed and so have my coworkers. They still ask, hey anything new on airliners.net? My response, nah...just haven't uploaded anything. I have a lot of material that would be perfect candidates...but I just don't have that same drive or passion for this particular site. Am I done for good? Will I never upload again? Of course not. I still plan to upload here. But with that said, to answer this question...

Quoting INNflight (Reply 23):
Again, why do you people not just upload your shots if you know they are stretching the rules, but MAY have a chance?!

I'll quote myself here by saying because...

Quote:
Uploading here isn't as rewarding as it used to be.

That's just how I see it right now.

[Edited 2009-10-20 16:26:12]

NicolasRubio · Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:38 pm

Another thing that discouraged me was getting my first Photographer's Choice and only seeing it in the homepage for a couple of hours because some people rated it with one or two stars. It is now one of my lowest rated shots.

That reflected what the site has turned into. It is definitely not what it was when I joined over 4 years ago!

g38 · Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:52 pm

It is too bad your picture was only up for a couple of hours. Sad

When I joined I guess I expected that they would be a little less picky.

locsta · Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:32 am

Quoting NicolasRubio (Reply 26):
Another thing that discouraged me was getting my first Photographer's Choice and only seeing it in the homepage for a couple of hours because some people rated it with one or two stars. It is now one of my lowest rated shots.

Does # of stars effect how long an image is on the home page? I have always been curious as to how PC works, but have no clue....

For me the main justification for meeting the strict criteria here, was the fact that a photo could get alot of exposure if accepted. That doesn't seem to be the case as of late, so some of the motivation for me is gone.

I also started to loose interest when 3+ of the top 5 pics started becoming seatbacks, while an awesome a2a pic would languish on the 2nd page. This makes me feel like my interests are much different than the main viewer of this site, and there for less apt to being excited about posting an image here.

I hope the site lives on and improves in the near future!

Cheers,

Kevin

Silver1SWA · Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:48 am

Quoting LOCsta (Reply 28):
Quoting NicolasRubio (Reply 26):
Another thing that discouraged me was getting my first Photographer's Choice and only seeing it in the homepage for a couple of hours because some people rated it with one or two stars. It is now one of my lowest rated shots.

Does # of stars effect how long an image is on the home page? I have always been curious as to how PC works, but have no clue....

I thought the winner of Photog's Choice holds the spot for 12 hours with two winners getting the spot ever day. Has it changed?

dvincent · Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:51 am

Quoting LOCsta (Reply 28):
Does # of stars effect how long an image is on the home page? I have always been curious as to how PC works, but have no clue....

Photographer's choice should stay up for 12 hours. Only two PC get picked per day (once every 12 hours).

Quote:
The winning photo will be posted on the frontpage of Airliners.net and is updated every day at midnight CET and noon CET (to always reflect the most recent 24 hours).

change CET for PST, that's never been updated for some reason. In any case, star ratings don't affect PC, but they do affect top rated photos. You can only vote FOR an image for PC, not against.

Anyway, there is an opportunity cost for uploading to this website. You have to weigh the time spent editing photos (it can take me three hours to properly tweak/sharpen a batch of 18 photos to upload, depending on how complex the masking job is) and the time spent in the queue vs. the reward (hits, comments, links, photog chocie, perhaps sales). My goal's to share my work. Sometimes I have spurts where I just don't upload anything, but in the past month or so I have been uploading a lot. You just never know.

Familiarty breeds contempt, as they say.

g38 · Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:53 am

Quoting LOCsta (Reply 28):
I also started to loose interest when 3+ of the top 5 pics started becoming seatbacks, while an awesome a2a pic would languish on the 2nd page. This makes me feel like my interests are much different than the main viewer of this site, and there for less apt to being excited about posting an image here.

You got it there. I do not see the grandness of seat backs. I would rather view the rest of the plane.

170345 · Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:00 am

Well, I've only gotten two pictures onto the site, so I have not started feeling bored with taking/uploading shots to a.net yet. I enjoy the thrill of finding out that my photo was accepted. I was uploading for about a year before I got my first picture on here, and now I am trying to raise my acceptance rate. No discouragement here...

-redacted

g38 · Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:03 am

You uploaded for a year and you are not discouraged?!! Now that is patience. My compliments to you. I would just be happy to see one of my pics get in (none of mine have made it).

170345 · Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:30 am

Well, I do have to admit that before I got pictures on here, I was somewhat discouraged. However, ever since I got my first picture on here, I am not as discouraged anymore when I get a rejection because I know that it is possible, and that if I got pictures on before I can do it again. Then I just go back and try to correct and try for a re-upload.

-redacted

cpd · Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:38 am

Quoting NicolasRubio (Reply 26):
because some people rated it with one or two stars. It is now one of my lowest rated shots.

That's very low. We badly need a way of seeing who is rating our photos, so that we can have people who do those kinds of deliberately negative ratings reported and banned.

[Edited 2009-10-20 20:28:27 by cpd]

NIKV69 · Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:23 am

Quoting G38 (Reply 33):
You uploaded for a year and you are not discouraged?!!

It took me a yaer and half. Sure I felt discouraged a bit but how are you going to improve if you use it as an excuse.

cpd · Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:30 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 36):
Sure I felt discouraged a bit but how are you going to improve if you use it as an excuse.

Exactly right. And it's improving those rejected photos to the point where they are acceptable that improves your ability to get photos accepted first go. Some images may be rejected for a tiny little issue that is easily fixed.

zbot69 · Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:39 am

Quoting INNflight (Reply 23):
I haven't uploaded here in more than a year now, but my acceptance ratio is 48%, and used to be 90something a few years back. Still, who cares??

For me it would be a lot more refreshing to get one out of 10 photos in which bends the rules rather than not try at all.

Hey Florian, excellent shots man! Nice collection you've put together. Fantastic work, really top notch. About your comment... you're right. I'm all for it. Better yet, I've actually tried it. And I get to play the creative hero all on my ownsome. Just me and my miserable acceptance ratio acting the cowboy. I could care less about the upload ratio. But I sure wouldn't mind being able to attempt to upload more pics at once. Oh wait... that's tied to my upload ratio.

And there you have it.

There's a caste system on the site that over time this "acceptance ratio" policy will only worsen... there are those of us whose upload limits are completely dictated by their acceptance ratios, and hence are completely limited to what we can upload... and there are members who get extra upload slots for the number of pics in the database who feel like Florian, because they take it for granted they're given a pass on their failed uploads when their 5 or 7 or 10 or whatever upload slots are guaranteed.

This policy, plus the increasing options available to photogs at other sites, is going to slowly kill the site.

Btw, I see more cabin shots gracing the Daily Top 5 again at Aircabins.net... I always make sure to click the "large" version of the shots that have passengers' hair prominently displayed in their cabin shots, because there's nothing hotter in an airplane picture than someone's hair after a ten hour + flight... oh, and the obligatory bald guy center-frame shot. Love those bald guy shots... those shots just plain rock!

alevik · Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:59 am

Quoting Zbot69 (Reply 38):
Better yet, I've actually tried it.

Hi Martin. Wondering if you were previously uploading under a different name? I was interested in checking out the creative shots that were rejected, but when I checked the rejection log I see only one photo in the rejection log under your name, and three acceptances.

I've been following this thread and trying to understand people's points of view, but I'm stuck on trying to see what creative issues you are referring to.

Thanks!

zbot69 · Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:20 am

Hi Alevic!

Thx for checking! 75% acceptance ratio?! Woop woop! Thx man. I'm stoked. Ha ha ha... nah, it's just me. The other rejections have all disappeared from the list, but I'll tell you what, I'll present the shots under the PRESCREENING queue and hope you can help me out on these babies. Who knows, you may recognize one of them? How about that?

Btw... I think a lot of the screeners have gone out of their way in assisting the photogs here. One screener has helped me through private correspondence, and salute to you guys on that! It didn't help my shot get one step closer to making it, but I really appreciate the time and effort you guys put into the process. Plus I got a shot fully critiqued without racking up another rejection. Sweet. Salute to you guys!

But the screeners are not the issue. The standards are not the issue. The upload limits are not the issue. The issue is hamstringing everyone by instituting bad policy. A policy that is going to slowly kill the site. I think I'm in the forum more these days because it's the "other" way I can participate in the site since I'm not uploading.

Okay Alevic, I'll try to get these guys up in the Prescreening queue in 24-48 hours or so and hope you can spare a few seconds to go over this stuff with me. One of the shots is a triple-rejectee! Hoozah!

Psych · Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:04 am

Quoting Cpd (Reply 35):
That's very low. We badly need a way of seeing who is rating our photos, so that we can have people who do those kinds of deliberately negative ratings reported and banned.

A very important point Chris - it seems some people go around purposely voting a photo down with a '1', which seems potentially open to abuse to say the least.

But if you take a look at the 'Top Rated Photos' section it is not like it used to be anyhow - all that is now is a list of ALL the photos on the site, ordered by number of views, so I am not sure how the rating system works any more anyway.

One thing I am thinking reading this and other recent threads - are we comfortable that the acceptance ratio is the best way to achieve what it was originally designed to do? It seems to come up an awful lot. Also - and maybe for a further discussion - what are the key things that actually impact on the 'experience' of being an uploading member here?

Paul

INNflight · Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:50 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 25):
Quote:
Uploading here isn't as rewarding as it used to be.

Exactly what I've felt. That's why I stopped. I won't go into details why otherwise I get yet another post deletion. :-/

Fly-K · Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:30 am

I've had my ups and downs as most others have too, but still, after a trip with new photos, I'm still excited to upload them. Maybe the "magic" of the early years is gone and I'm less involved than previously, but still far from discouraged.

apgphoto · Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:19 am

Vasco,

I have been around as long as you have (although with a little break!)

I can see where your coming from, if I look at my personal shots that I can upload to the site then I'm pretty much in the same situation as you. They are great shots in the real world but totally unsuited to A.net criteria. Like you I would upload as much as I could in the old days, I think maybe like me you have an eye for a much better shot but its just not an A.net shot.

The fun has ebbed away but the whole site has changed so much in 10 years....

Am I mistaken didn't you get a job as a Screener?

Paul

IL76 · Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:31 am

I basically don't have anything to upload different from stuff I have already uploaded. I mean: I can go to AMS, stand next to the runway and take hundreds of photo's that quite surely will get accepted here. But why? To beat AirNikons 10.000? No thanks.
For example, I have uploaded dozens of KLM 737 or 747 side-on, 3/4, touch-down, rotation, banking, sunset, etc... No need to upload yet another just because it has a different registration. Sure I will still take photos, but I can't be bothered to upload them. It's the "been there, done that" syndrome. Smile

The pics I take now are just the "playing around" type and will definitely not get accepted here. If I happen to catch a flame-out, bird/lightning strike or something else spectacular which is tack-sharp, smooth and in bright sunshine, I'll surely upload somewhere, but what are the odds? (preferably it's best if those situations never happen)

E

raedervision · Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:41 am

I NEVER take an aviation photograph for airliner's. I take an aviation photograph for me. My idea of what the photograph should be. If some of them fit airliner's mold I can upload them and if they don't they are for me and or for someone else. That's how I stay interested...no walls for me. Jim

JakTrax · Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:57 am

Quoting RonS (Reply 19):
we need more creative shots, off center and not technically correct

I agree 100%, but they have to be of a certain technical merit. When I say this I mean they must be in focus, free of dust, etc. Any fault that looks like an accidental mishap or lack of proper editing should be cause for rejection, however things like unlevel or colour can be deliberate in order to give an image creativity.

Quoting G38 (Reply 22):
the website will become like its sister site, myaviation.net

I fear that changing the way ratios or acceptances work will result in a mass of below-parr shots clogging up the queue, and possibly even entering the database. I agree that something needs to change but providing a free-for-all will indeed make the site more like MyAviation.

Quoting ThomasWarloe (Reply 32):
No discouragement here..

That's the way! I know many newbies here who are extremely enthusiastic so I'm a bit puzzled as to why all the old hands are insisting that every rookie is being discouraged. The ones I know are up, running and doing well!

Karl

timdegroot · Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:05 am

Quoting Psych (Reply 41):
But if you take a look at the 'Top Rated Photos' section it is not like it used to be anyhow - all that is now is a list of ALL the photos on the site, ordered by number of views, so I am not sure how the rating system works any more anyway.

That is a bug, which sadly has not been picked up by DM....

As for feeling discouraged because of acceptance ratios, I just can't understand that. Those who care about uploading lots usually have decent ratios because they upload the "safer" shots. Those who upload the different shots usually upload a handful at the time, in which case acceptance ratio is totally irrelevant.

Hopefully we can move away alltogether from the acceptance ratio thing. I have somehting in the works that would level the palyingfield like before.

Quoting IL76 (Reply 45):
basically don't have anything to upload different from stuff I have already uploaded. I mean: I can go to AMS, stand next to the runway and take hundreds of photo's that quite surely will get accepted here.

Same here. That's why in 2004 I uploaded around 300 shots a year and now it's barely 1/3rd of that. When I was starting out here a 400mm takeoff closeup was something cool....now it's been done to death. That is just the saturation of our hobby on the web.

Tim

NIKV69 · Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:12 pm

Quoting INNflight (Reply 42):
That's why I stopped

Hope you change your mind Flo, Your shots in the winter are awesome.

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