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JakTrax
Topic Author
Posts: 5267
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

Poll Results Concerning Changes You'd Like To See

Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:40 pm

Hi all,

Taking longer than expected to sift through the information but I'd like to openly discuss here the two issues people have put forward more than anything else - rules regarding creatives and a make-over of the acceptance ratio.

It seems that, us photographers at least, would like to see more creative shots here, which ties in with relaxing the rules for such images. What's been suggested over and over is a make-over of the current system to allow for creatives to be put in the queue without a hugely detrimental effect on ratios if rejected. The most popular way of doing this is to have 'X' number of slots allocated as creative (or simply 'jokers' as someone put it), where 'X' is relative to your performance within the current 'normal' rules of A.net. Your 'X' allocation won't affect your ratio but will increase/decrease WITH your ratio.For example, for every 5 queue slots you earn via your ratio, you get an additional 'X' slot; and for every 5 you lose, you get an 'X' slot taken away. This should feel less restrictive to those worried that creatives will be rejected while at the same time not allowing a complete free-for-all where the queue/database gets clogged with crap. You'd still have to earn your respective slots.

Now another issue (with which I don't actually agree but find myself having to be impartial toward) is the queue limit for newbies, which apparently isn't enough at two. Personally I don't think many 'noobs' have a real issue with it (many I know are already above the two) but it has been brought to my attention quite a few times. Incidently, no-one has specified what they think it should be increased to, which makes me assume that the majority would be more comfortable with it going back to five. Whether this would make the queue and screening times longer I don't know - perhaps the rejection criteria for non-creatives ('non-jokers') would have to be again reviewed and tightened up (I can already hear the groans at this but I guess we can't have our cake AND eat it!)

Food for thought while I address the other issues.....

Karl
 
McG1967
Posts: 557
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:36 am

RE: Poll Results Concerning Changes You'd Like To See

Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:53 pm

Karl,

this is what I suggested in the other thread:

"
0-50 shots in DB - 5 slots in queue with no reduction in number of slots due to acceptance ratio.

50-100 shots in DB - 10 slots in queue. Each rejection counts towards losing an upload slot for a period of 21 - 28 days.

For each additional 50 or 100 shots you have in the database, you gain 5 slots in the queue. Again each rejection counts towards losing an upload slot for a period of 21 - 28 days.

Example if you have 10 slots in the queue and upload 10 photos on day 1, when they are screened you get 3 accepted and 7 rejected. This would mean you would only have 3 queue slots left until the 21 or 28 days have lapsed. It would encourage people to be more careful with their editing.

This is an expanded upon method of what the other site use - there everyone has a blanket 20 slots in the queue and you lose a slot for 14days for rejection. Their elite members get unlimited queue slots. "

This would cover both of the points you mentioned above - it would encourage newer photographers with a 5 slot queue limit. By only losing 1 of your queue slots after a rejection for a specific time period, it would also encourage more people to upload border line or creative shots as there would not be an acceptance ratio to worry about.
 
NicolasRubio
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:45 am

RE: Poll Results Concerning Changes You'd Like To See

Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:07 pm

I think this is the third time I mention it, but I will do it again because some agreed with me and I think it is important.

A Photographers Choice is a photograph chosen by PHOTOGRAPHERS to be the best of the day/week/whatever. I think that allowing non-photographers to vote lacks coherence. Therefore what I propose is the following:

- Only photographers with shots in the database can rate photographs (no matter how many photos) but anyone can comment on the photographs (without rating).
- It should be compulsory to leave a name in the comment and, if the one who comments is a photographer, his name should appear automatically, as well as how many stars he/she rated the photo with.
- Photographers should be able to respond to the comments or answer any questions in it without having to rate their photograph and leave a comment which will most likely not read again by the other person.

And probably some more things that I can't remember now.

Just my 2 cents!
Nicolas Rubio

PS: of course I support creative pictures!
 
JakTrax
Topic Author
Posts: 5267
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Poll Results Concerning Changes You'd Like To See

Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:18 pm

Nicolas,

The ratings system has been discussed briefly but it isn't what I'm highlighting here. For the moment I'd like to discuss the points raised in my introductory post - creative images and queue limits.

Karl
 
LHRsunriser
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:28 am

RE: Poll Results Concerning Changes You'd Like To See

Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:01 am

I think the limit of 'X' slots if implemented would have to be thought out very carefully. In my opinion 2 maximum or to have them processed by the screeners at a lesser priority. For example the last photos to be screened on the date they were added.

Otherwise I cant help but feel if there were more X slots people would go back through borderline photos and upload willy nilly

Dom
 
Chukcha
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:57 am

RE: Poll Results Concerning Changes You'd Like To See

Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:50 am

Quoting JakTrax (Thread starter):
The most popular way of doing this is to have 'X' number of slots allocated as creative ... where 'X' is relative to your performance within the current 'normal' rules of A.net.

I don't quite understand. Does it mean that the only these specially allocated
"X" slots will be allowed to use for uploading "creative" shots, and the rest only for the non-"creative"? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Karl, you say "most popular way". Was it suggested anywhere here on the forum, or was it in one of those emails sent to you? If here in the forum, could you please cross-reference to the thread, so we could read this suggestion in its original form?

Quoting JakTrax (Thread starter):
not allowing a complete free-for-all where the queue/database gets clogged with crap.

You keep reiterating this "database ... clogged with crap" notion over and over again. How could it possibly happen, when the pictures would still go through the screening, and the screeners would definitely stop the "crap" getting in the DB?


As this thread deal specifically with creative images and queue limits, I would like to repeat my suggestion that was thoroughly lost in the other thread.

Why not make it so that 'motive' rejections don't count against acceptance ratio?

As "motive" by its nature is a unique RR and could be looked at differently than others. See for yourself.

Level, Blurry, Borders, Color, Common,Compression, Contrast, Dark, Dirty, Distance, Editing, Overexposed, Grainy, Over-sharpened, Quality, Size, and Soft are all rejection that have to do with the quality of images.

Category, Centered, Common, Copyright, Info, Photographer, Reupload - these have to do with the photographer learning the rules of the website and doing his homework properly.

The 'motive' rejection, however, stands alone. It is the most contradictory, subjective and unclear rejection reason. There is no exact definition for it, and sometimes one and the same image could be rejected for it or accepted and end up in the top, highly praised exactly for the same reason for which it could have been rejected.

Why not then set it up so it doesn't affect the acceptance ratio? Also, if there are other reasons to reject the same photo, why not make so that 'motive', if applied, would override them and make the rejection non-affecting the acceptance ratio as well? Why? Well, just because image, rejected for 'motive', is not fixable anyway. In those rare occasions when it is fixable, say, by re-cropping, it could be noted in the screeners' message.

That would stop people from being afraid to upload 'creative images' once and for all.

Of course, there would be side effects, like a onger queue (hopefully not by much, because the number of slots would still be limited, and the waiting time in queue would remain the same).

This idea might be viable or it might be not - I'm not a screener and don't have access to the screening data to be able to analyse how it would affect screening, but at least I can offer it to their consideration.

Andrei

[Edited 2009-10-22 01:53:51]
 
JakTrax
Topic Author
Posts: 5267
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Poll Results Concerning Changes You'd Like To See

Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:02 am

Andrei,

The 'X' slots would be 'suited' for creatives but certainly not limited to them. I really don't know how it would work exactly - please bear in mind that I'm only the messenger here and these are not necessarily my opinions.

Your idea of motives not counting towards a drop in ratio was also pretty popular.

Karl
 
zbot69
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 10:29 am

RE: Poll Results Concerning Changes You'd Like To

Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:18 am

Tim deGroot has already stated that a revamped upload system is in consideration, so I don't know how academic this debate is at this point. In the "Do You Feel Discouraged" thread, comment #48, Tim stated:

"Hopefully we can move away alltogether from the acceptance ratio thing. I have somehting in the works that would level the palyingfield like before."

Sounds good to me. I'm glad "the powers" have been paying attention.

One a separate note: One completely Unanimous vote in FAVOR of Nicolas Rubio's proposal above. That's exactly what this site could use more of. Building a stronger sense of community among the photogs, and I think making more of the features interactive and giving participating photogs more of a voice in the photo rankings process is exactly such a feature.


Cheers!

[Edited 2009-10-22 02:38:21 by zbot69]

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