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vishaljo
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Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:52 am

Canon really know how to polish a xxD body with a $5 Cleaning Liquid/Solution & put a new badge on it every 18odd months.

Should be Officially announced in a few hours:

Quote:
http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/08/canon-eos-60d-specs-cr2-5/
Canon EOS 60D Specifications

* 18 MP. 17.9 effective
* APS-C
* 100-6400 (Hi: 12800)
* 1/250 flash sync
* sdxc/hc
* h.264
* 1080 – 30/25/24
* 720 – 50/60
* 3″ Screen, 1MP
* 14 bit
* 11 min video
* 5.3FPS
* digic 4
* 9 AF points
* 63 zone (metering)

There's this guy on CR who's really pissed with it & posted this hilarious bit which i dont completely disagree with >

Quoting hoktar:
WOW what a shit :-X

They screwed up big big time. I mean what the hell they seriously brought a bad 7D!
What the hell is this?! Who needs this shit! So that's what I was waitng for 2 years now. Now I still have to buy the 7D again. OMG I am so mad at Canon.
I could kill them for the SD cards.

So I was really right, the only thing they brought was the shitty flip screen.
Go to hell Canon.

  

He replied to others with this Pearl

Quoting hoktar:
I knew it can't be as good as the 7D but we already have a camera "worse" than the 7D and that's the 550D.
So what the hell is this 60D Supposed to be?! Who needs this crap, it's a crippled mix of a 7D and a 550D, not good for anything. If it were at least good for video (autofocus thing) or lowligt, or just SOMETHING! But this is useless!!
And who the fu... needs SD cards!!! I mean seriously, they did everything, to destroy the xxD! Why the hell would I spend an extra 300-400$ on a camera that is just slightly bigger than the 550D and has a Flipscreen?!?! That's insane.

Die Canon.

  

A lot of people brought-up Sony's 2 new cameras & especially the A55,

i went to dpReview to checkout the Sony A55's Specs & Review
Wow !!
 
cpd
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:41 am

Nikon for the win!   

I can't believe they are using SD cards. Those Sony's are interesting - especially fast frame rate at 10fps, it's right up there with the top line pro-camera bodies of Nikon and Canon (and in fact, better than Nikon I think). But of course, the buffer had better be good or it'll fill up fast.

[Edited 2010-08-25 19:44:16]
 
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NZ107
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:51 am

I was really looking forward to the spec release of the 60D.. I guess I can hold off and stick with my 400D for a little while longer!
 
SNATH
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:29 am

It looks as if a bunch of lobotomized drunken monkeys can come up with a better camera strategy than the geniuses at Canon. They are giving me more and more reasons to jump ship and give my money to someone else... Nice one, Canon. Nice one.

Tony

[Edited 2010-08-25 20:55:25]
 
SNATH
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:20 am

CR seems to have just posted the 60D announcement (the spec is as it was originally posted):

http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/08/canon-announces-eos-60d/

along with new lenses:

70-300 f/4-5.6L IS:

http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/08/canon-announces-70-300-f4-5-6l-is/

8-15 f/4L Fisheye Zoom:

http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/08/c...n-announced-8-15-f4l-fisheye-zoom/

New 300 f/2.8L IS & 400 f/2.8L IS:

http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/08/c...ces-new-300-f2-8l-is-400-f2-8l-is/

New TCs 1.4x III & 2.0x III

http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/08/canon-announces-1-4x-iii-2-0x-iii/

Don't know about everyone else, but none of this was on my wish list...

Tony

[Edited 2010-08-25 21:27:40]

[Edited 2010-08-25 21:28:12]
 
SNATH
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:26 am

A bit more on dpreview:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1008/10082620canoneos60d.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos60d/

(yes, the 60D is plastic)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1008/10082617canon70mm300mm.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1008/10082616canon8mm15mm.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1008/10082615canon300mm400mm.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1008/10082611canonef14xiiief2xiii.asp

As well as an announcement that Canon are working on 500mm F/4L IS II USM and 600mm F/4L IS II USM lenses :

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1008/10082614canon500mm600mm.asp

So, does anyone see the irony? Here's a low-end plastic body and here are some lenses that most people that will buy said body will never be able to afford.... I'd really like to get hold of the stuff that the Canon staff have been smoking recently. Man, it must be good.

Tony

[Edited 2010-08-25 21:28:42]
 
SNATH
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:37 am

imaging-resource.com also posted a preview:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E60D/E60DA.HTM

Tony
 
stevenlee505
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:51 am

So let me get this straight... the 60D is just a 550D with a 60D badge on it?

Looking at this, it looks pretty dumbed down to be more 'Rebel-like'.

[Edited 2010-08-25 21:55:26]
 
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NZ107
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:33 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 4):
70-300 f/4-5.6L IS:

Interesting; although at this stage, I'd much rather save up and go for the 100-400mm. I wonder when they'll update this one to make IS down to 4 stops as well. Sounds like this could be an option with a 1.4x or 2x converter though, however the 70-200 might just provide that extra bit of quality over this lens..
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:58 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 4):
but none of this was on my wish list...

Apart from a new and improved 2x, but they they just talk of improvements when paired to the newer lenses, so I guess it's still lousy with my 70-200 2.8L IS
 
cpd
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:15 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 4):
but none of this was on my wish list...

But I'll bet you'd have a 400 2.8L with IS II if you could - and I just know what results you'd achieve with it too.  

I almost went for a Nikkor 400/2.8 VR II - but ultimately baulked at the enormous weight. I know that lens would have been great in very low light with a D700 or a D3 - but I also know at other times, it would have been limiting. Canon's 400 coming in at below 4kg is a very good result.

I don't quite understand why Canon used SD cards this time instead of CF cards. This must be seriously annoying for those people who've already got a handful of CF cards for their older cameras.

But for these purposes the 8-15mm f/4L Fisheye Zoom could be useful for those flight-deck photos.

[Edited 2010-08-25 23:18:05]
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:17 am

The 60d appears to be more comparable to the vastly cheaper T2i, than the 7D.

I get what they were thinking, but I don't get the name and the pricepoint. This should headline the Rebel series instead, and do it for less than $1400msrp.
 
Dehowie
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:26 am

In the space of 6 months Canon are replacing the entire Super Tele range..wow...
All with 4 stop IS and if the improvement in image quality is anything like what they did to the incredible 70-200l IS II then the pro's are in for a field day.
With Nikon having 4 stop VR on the 300/2.8 the game continue's with Canon now having 4 stop on all the super tele's.
As CPD said 3.8 KG for a 400/2.8 is just incredible. Having used the current 400 it will be worth the upgrade if you used one a lot just for the like 30% weight reduction.
Pretty happy here..
As for the 60D its clear Canon are using the 7D as there premier semi pro body and the 60D is now a mid point between say the 550D and the 7D. No real point having two cameras spec'd so close together from a marketing point of view.
Will we ever see a 600D???
The 7D has all the features xxD users have been crying about for years they wanted im perplexed what he complaints are about..7D does everything and way more than a 50D ever did for not that much more in price. It even does stuff like the electronic viewfinder grid that the 1 series doesnt do.
Base model..60D
Advanced semi pro..7D
Pro 1Dmk4
And the problem is????
 
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dvincent
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:39 am

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 12):
The 7D has all the features xxD users have been crying about for years they wanted im perplexed what he complaints are about..7D does everything and way more than a 50D ever did for not that much more in price. It even does stuff like the electronic viewfinder grid that the 1 series doesnt do.

They don't like the image quality on the 7D.

The 60D looks more like a D90 competitor (and shares a lot of that camera's quirks and specs). From that standpoint, it's probably OK. But for existing XXD customers, I would think it's a downgrade.

The last time Canon refreshed most of their supertelephotos was 8-10 years ago, so a lot of these were due for upgrades. I'm sure I can predict one thing about them - they may have 30% weight savings, but I bet the price tags will have gained 30% of that weight.

[Edited 2010-08-26 04:41:01]
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:13 pm

Quoting dvincent (Reply 13):
but I bet the price tags will have gained 30% of that weight.

Dan, as always you're very correct. From the-digital-picture:

Canon EF 8-15mm f/4L Fisheye USM lens : $1,400
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM lens : $1,500
Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II USM lens : $7,000
Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II USM lens : $11,000
Extenders : $500

No prices announced for the two bigger ones...

Tony
 
ZakHH
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:20 pm

Seeing how close the 550D and the 7D are to each other already, it was obvious that Canon would not be able squeeze something in between that actually makes sense.

The 60D is not the successor of the 50D, it's a 550D+. And the advantages are so minimal that I don't see why I would pay the premium.

My decision for a new camera (that is planned for end of this year) was between the 550D and the 7D before - and it still is.
 
SNATH
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:51 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 8):
I wonder when they'll update this one to make IS down to 4 stops as well.

Do they really think they will make more money selling 70-300s (and the fisheye zoom!) than upgrading the 100-400? I really don't get that...

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 8):
Sounds like this could be an option with a 1.4x or 2x converter though,

If you want to lose AF...

Quoting cpd (Reply 10):
But I'll bet you'd have a 400 2.8L with IS II if you could - and I just know what results you'd achieve with it too.

Would I love to shoot the any of those big white lenses? Sure! Would I love to drive a Ferrari? Absolutely. Would either happen? Never in my lifetime. Maybe I could put up with the weight and size of those beasts, but I just can't justify their price tag.

Quoting cpd (Reply 10):
I don't quite understand why Canon used SD cards this time instead of CF cards. This must be seriously annoying for those people who've already got a handful of CF cards for their older cameras.

The 60D was designed to be an easy upgrade to the majority (note: I said majority, OK? present company excluded) of the Rebel users, the ones who get it, put the camera on Auto, and use it as a point-and-shoot. Whether the pictures are 10, 12, 18MPs it doesn't matter, they won't be able to tell the difference. They just feel better by having an 18MP sensor and with the 60D they will feel better by having a "better" camera to take crappy pictures with...   (again note: I said majority, OK? I still use my XTi)

Quoting cpd (Reply 10):
But for these purposes the 8-15mm f/4L Fisheye Zoom could be useful for those flight-deck photos.

Yeah, but the fisheye effect is not for everybody. I was hoping that Canon would come up with something like the Nikon 14-24 or an upgraded 17-40 IS with better corner performance. Yet another strange from Canon (IMHO at least).

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 11):
and do it for less than $1400msrp.

The 60D will be around $1050.

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 12):
Will we ever see a 600D???

Totally. $1000 is a lot of money for a glorified point-and-shoot.  
Quoting Dehowie (Reply 12):
The 7D has all the features xxD users have been crying about for years they wanted im perplexed what he complaints are about..

By all accounts the 7D is a great handling body... with the image quality of a Rebel. No thanks.

Now, I'd like to add one more thing. Some time ago Canon Rumors posted a rumor that in the future Canon's lenses will be either L (for FF) or EF-S (for the crop bodies), and nothing in between (i.e., no "cheap" EF lenses any more). In all honesty, I didn't really believe it. But yesterday's announcements of no less than 6 new L lenses makes me think that this might not be far from the truth. So, this tells me that Canon are focusing on the low and high ends and the folks in the middle, who I assume includes a lot of people on this forum, are getting utterly and royally screwed. If we want decent priced lenses we'll have to use the crappy EF-S ones. And if we want to upgrade to something better, the premium is being moved up more and more.

Canon, I hate you.

Tony
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:35 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 16):
The 60D will be around $1050.

Only price listed I've seen is $1400MSRP. Body only street price might be down around $1050, but thats still huge money for a T2i with a swivel screen and some other small improvements.
 
SNATH
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:01 pm

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 17):
Only price listed I've seen is $1400MSRP. Body only street price might be down around $1050,

According to this:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/P...60D-DSLR-Camera-Press-Release.aspx

$1400 with kit lens, $1099 body only.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 17):
but thats still huge money for a T2i with a swivel screen and some other small improvements.

I am not disagreeing in any way.

Tony
 
RonS
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RE: Canon 60D

Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:23 pm

Its very rare when I can buy old technology (used 40D), and when new technology comes out (7D) or is announced (60D) I'm happy with my old technology. Buying a used 40D for me was a great decision!
 
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NZ107
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RE: Canon 60D

Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:33 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 14):
Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM lens : $1,500
Quoting SNATH (Reply 16):
Do they really think they will make more money selling 70-300s (and the fisheye zoom!) than upgrading the 100-400? I really don't get that...

Well, seeing a price like $1500 which is about $100 less than the 100-400, is the quality that much better? The price looks so crazy to me though. I'd be much better off with the extra length I reckon.
 
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vishaljo
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RE: Canon 60D

Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:16 am

Nicholas, reason for the 70-300L's hefty price i'm guessing should be its better IS & compact size.
Besides 70mm is a better focal length for many than 100,
this may not be the ideal airshow lens if that what you're looking for but, i'm pretty certain this lens will be extremely good at most other things.

About the 8-15f4L, i think the very large & growing 5D2 userbase will have a great time with this lens,
they will produce some of the most incredible & creative imagery with that lens.

The fact remains, Canon seem to be pricing the life out of its buyers.
Both these lenses seem $300~500 overpriced if not more.

About the 60D, The Swivel Screen & Wireless Flash Transmitter are the only pluses i see but, then i think most people will take this as a Glorified Rebel than a Prosumer Body.

So there's an amateur/entry level series that is the xxxD line, if u want a few more bells & whistles then a Delux Rebel > 60D

Step-up camera > 7D

Above that if u want to shoot anything non-action > 5D2 else UNO

All eyes now shift to some Hybrid Camera Canon is currently (rumoured to be) working on, its touted to be a Full-Framer NOT the 5D3, lets see what other rabbits come out of the Japanese Hat.
 
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NZ107
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RE: Canon 60D

Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:30 am

Quoting vishaljo (Reply 21):
reason for the 70-300L's hefty price i'm guessing should be its better IS & compact size.

I currently own a Canon 70-300mm IS USM and need the extra length beyond 300mm. I saw that the L version is over double the weight albeit a bit shorter and much fatter. But it'll be interesting when and if they upgrade the 100-400 to match the IS performance of the 70-200 2.8 L II and the 70-300L. The quality better be as good as what you pay for it.
 
loadofthewing
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RE: Canon 60D

Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:51 pm

Thank god they haven't update the 100-400L!!
Cause I just brought it half years ago.......   
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Canon 60D

Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:57 pm

Come on guys, look at the bright side! No urge to go out and by the newest XXD body!! I am now more comfortable with my decision to save up for something in the next level up. Wont have to worry about a setback by being distracted with desire for the 60D.  
Quoting RonS (Reply 19):
Its very rare when I can buy old technology (used 40D), and when new technology comes out (7D) or is announced (60D) I'm happy with my old technology. Buying a used 40D for me was a great decision!

Same here. Although I am ready to start aiming higher, like the 5Dmk2 (for non-av stuff)...
 
leadingedge
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RE: Canon 60D

Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:14 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 16):
The 60D will be around $1050.

Warehouse Express are asking £1099.00 for a 60D and £1195 for a 7D .....Which would you buy .. the 60D price tag does not make sense and needs to be around £800.00 max.
 
iamlucky13
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RE: Canon 60D

Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:19 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 3):
It looks as if a bunch of lobotomized drunken monkeys can come up with a better camera strategy
than the geniuses at Canon. They are giving me more and more reasons to jump ship and give my money to someone else... Nice one, Canon. Nice one.

Tony

Hehe...I find this amusing.

I see almost this exact same comments all the time on Nikon Rumors. In fact, I'm pretty sure the phrase "drunken monkeys" was even recently used.

I've always figured from the fact that Nikon is still doing ok that the same sentiments show up among Canon users, but never looked to see.

Just so you guys are in the loop, similar has been happening on the Nikon side: image quality is converging between the various models, so that the main distinctions are in the build quality, external controls, viewfinder, shooting speed, etc.
 
Dehowie
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RE: Canon 60D

Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:49 am

Seriously anyone who doesnt like the quality of the output quality of the 7D either has never used one or is a pixel peeping spending to much time looking at 100% sized images and not enough time taking photos.
Any of the prints ive got with my 7D more than hold there own against any of my older cameras like the 50D and 40D.
Having used a 7D quite a bit id pick a 7D over a 50D anyday in any situation...any.
 
mirage
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RE: Canon 60D

Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:44 am

My wish camera would be a 7D with the image quality of a 5DII or a 5DII with the speed and auto focus of a 7D, can Canon make something like this?

Luis
 
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vishaljo
Topic Author
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RE: Canon 60D

Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:50 pm

^^ They have already ✈ 1D Mark IV

Darren since you own, would you say it comes close to meeting the above tag ?

Quoting LOADOFTHEWING (Reply 23):
Thank god they haven't update the 100-400L!!
Cause I just brought it half years ago.......

When they do & they will - the price wont be anywhere below $1900-2k

[Edited 2010-08-29 06:00:01]
 
cpd
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RE: Canon 60D

Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:08 pm

Quoting iamlucky13 (Reply 26):

I don't know if I agree with that - the D3S and D3X are currently on another league altogether. The D3 and D700 didn't differ much but now there is a huge difference. It's especially obvious if you want to do photos in low light with high ISO settings (6400 for instance).
 
5J
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RE: Canon 60D

Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:26 pm

I still prefer the 50D, to be honest. The extra megapixels and the HD video capabilities aren't worth the premium you pay to get a 60D.
 
Dehowie
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Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:41 am

RE: Canon 60D

Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:14 pm

Quoting mirage (Reply 28):
My wish camera would be a 7D with the image quality of a 5DII or a 5DII with the speed and auto focus of a 7D, can Canon make something like this?

Mmm nice try but the laws of physics will stop a crop sensor from providing you will full frame quality for the forseeable future.
Im sure it would be great to dream of a body like a 1D with the image quality of a 1DsMK3,Mk4 or 5Dmk2 with the Af of a MK4 and the price of a 50D unfortunately it aint going to happen..ever.
So if people want image quality for a good price get a 5D, if the want greta AF and hi FPS get a 7D and if they want to get serious by a 1DMK4..
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
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RE: Canon 60D

Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:07 pm

Let's hope for a 5D mk III with better auto focus, but I doubt it will happen due to Canon market strategies...

Luis
 
iamlucky13
Posts: 1465
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RE: Canon 60D

Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:32 pm

Quoting cpd (Reply 30):
I don't know if I agree with that - the D3S and D3X are currently on another league altogether. The D3 and D700 didn't differ much but now there is a huge difference. It's especially obvious if you want to do photos in low light with high ISO settings (6400 for instance).

Good points, but there's two things in there I didn't bother to expand upon before:

- These are full frame cameras. Not easy to compare to crop sensors.

- There's generational differences. The D3s obviously got some upgrades the D700 hasn't yet received.

Also, the D3x pixel density is similar to the D300, and quality at the pixel level unsurprisingly seems pretty similar, but a few people find enough other reasons to buy D3x's instead of D300's.

The overlap is never perfect (the D3100 entry obfuscates the lineup on the Nikon side even more than the 60D does on the Canon side), and while for some a particular aspect like high ISO may be a major factor, I would still argue that in general body features are a more important differentiator than sensor specifications.

Which, of course, is the way things were in the film days.

Bottom line: So what if the T2i, 60D, and 7D all have the same basic sensor specs? There's still a fair amount of differentiation in the other features, they all have at least some improvements over previous generations, and none of them are grossly deficient compared to other brands.

Also, I'm sure some of the complaints are from 50D users hoping the 60D would be a significant upgrade, when instead it steps back in some regards (more plastic, no CF), but arguably that's partially merited since the introduction of the 7D. Besides, isn't the 60D $300 cheaper than the 50D debuted at?
 
SNATH
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RE: Canon 60D

Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:44 pm

Quoting RonS (Reply 19):
Its very rare when I can buy old technology (used 40D), and when new technology comes out (7D) or is announced (60D) I'm happy with my old technology. Buying a used 40D for me was a great decision!

+1 to that Ron!

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 24):
Come on guys, look at the bright side! No urge to go out and by the newest XXD body!!

The thing is that I would like to upgrade my 40D (one of the few things I'd like to have is micro-focus adjustments which the 40D doesn't have). However, nothing that Canon has come up since the 40D was a no-brainer for me.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 24):
Same here. Although I am ready to start aiming higher, like the 5Dmk2 (for non-av stuff)...

I'm with you, Ryan. I'm seriously looking at the 5DmkII too.

Quoting leadingedge (Reply 25):
Which would you buy ..

Neither!  
Quoting Dehowie (Reply 27):
either has never used one

Guilty as charged.

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 27):
or is a pixel peeping spending to much time looking at 100% sized images and not enough time taking photos.

I can't see why I shouldn't be... and there are many cold / bitter winter days in MA to spend inside pixel peeping instead of outside freezing.  

If I'm going to spend this much money on a camera body I'd really like it to have very good pixel sharpness. And if I didn't care about that, I'd get an S90 or a G11 and save myself a lot of money and the trouble of carrying the heavier camera / lenses around. Now, of course you'll tell me that the shots you take with the 7D are great, etc. Sure. I totally believe you. But maybe we shoot different things. I do a lot of landscape work at f/8 - f/11, narrower sometimes. All the shots I've seen from the 7D at those apertures look awful (remember: the 7D is handicapped around f/7 IIRC or narrower due to diffraction). And the argument "hey, just make sure you shoot at f/6.3 and wider and you'll be fine" is nonsense. I'm not going to change the way I shoot and the subjects I shoot so that I can get better results with the 7D. So, for me, the 7D is next to useless. And sure I also understand the argument "hey, the 7D is supposed to be a camera for action, wide apertures, 5,000 frames/sec, etc." But why does it have to be so handicapped for landscapes?

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 27):
Having used a 7D quite a bit id pick a 7D over a 50D anyday in any situation...any.

I've always been amused by the "7D has better image quality than the 50D" arguments because a) at almost twice the price it'd better do and b) the 50D's IQ was suspect in the first place.

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 32):

Mmm nice try but the laws of physics will stop a crop sensor from providing you will full frame quality for the forseeable future.

Totally agreed. I didn't expect the 7D to have the pixel sharpness of the 5DmkII. But I find it _very_ hard to believe that Canon could not have come up with a camera that has fewer Mps but better overall image quality (much better per pixel sharpness, not so handicapped at narrow apertures, lower high ISO noise, better dynamic range, etc.) for the people who really care. Sadly, they tried to appeal to the folks who think that "the higher the Mps, the better the image quality", which is sadly not true. It's the same argument that chip manufacturers used to make: higher MHz / GHz means more speed. And they eventually reached a brick wall and had to get out of that race... I'm fully expecting the camera manufacturers to have to do the same eventually.

Oh, and if you think I'm just talking nonsense: I know quite a few folks (several on this forum!) who eagerly ordered their 7D, only to be disappointed by its image quality. So, the above is not just my imagination...

Anyway, sorry for the long rant here... and thanks for putting up with me.

Tony
 
Chukcha
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:57 am

RE: Canon 60D

Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:30 pm

This is a great marketing move on the part of Canon. They just want to make all the photographers who got hooked on the XXD range move up a notch higher in the price range.

In a nutshell, either you spend more money on the 7D, or end up with a lower class camera.

Quoting RonS (Reply 19):
Buying a used 40D for me was a great decision!

Amen to that. Best investment I've ever made as far as camera bodies, too.
 
cpd
Posts: 6822
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

RE: Canon 60D

Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:30 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 35):
ower high ISO noise

That's the major important bit for anyone who doesn't take photos in daylight only. Nikon currently has this sweet-spot covered with the D700 very well. It's hard to find a better suited camera for taking pictures of planes. It's a great boon to be able to use ISO3200 for those airport night photos and open up the lens to F/4.0 for care free hand-held images that are so clean and crisp you can scarcely believe they are ISO3200.

Perhaps Canon will bring the 1D4 imaging technology into a lesser level of cameras before Nikon does the same with its D3S sensor technology. There are a lot of people who would upgrade very quickly.
 
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vishaljo
Topic Author
Posts: 504
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RE: Canon 60D

Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:48 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 35):
I've always been amused by the "7D has better image quality than the 50D" arguments because a) at almost twice the price it'd better do

  

Quoting SNATH (Reply 35):
Sadly, they tried to appeal to the folks who think that "the higher the Mps, the better the image quality", which is sadly not true. It's the same argument that chip manufacturers used to make: higher MHz / GHz means more speed. And they eventually reached a brick wall and had to get out of that race... I'm fully expecting the camera manufacturers to have to do the same eventually.

Agree, because i'm not sure where this stupid Mega-Pixel race is heading to.
Who the hell prints posters ?
If i were to do it on a regular basis i would be using a 1 Series or a Medium Format Body.

As more people realize the marketing BS about the uselessness of the higher mp count, camera manufacturers will have to use the same detour that chip makers did upon reaching the brick wall.

Just like Intel did with Dual-Core, Core 2, Quad & the like.........
Same thing with Canon, Digic to Dual Digic not sure if we will see a Tri/Quad Digic.
But just imagine the frame rates if such a camera were to be made, Mirror-up - FIRE !   
 
Dehowie
Posts: 1072
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:41 am

RE: Canon 60D

Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:25 am

Hey Tony i pretty much agree with most things you say they are all good points.
However on the 7D image quality i do.
I think from my personal point of view many people get swept up in the high MP means poor image quality bandwagon and you cant use high apertures etc.
When you resize the 7D image down in size to say match a D700 image or down to a size you will use for web use etc its image quality is id say Stellar.
Take a look at Darryl Morrell's EVA image which is at the other site as a screeners choice it gives a perfect example of just how amazing the images are from this camera in the right hands...and i'd assume you could produce similar quality work.
100% view peeping has generated a hype all its own that is based on nothing but hype and i think a quick look around here and other places will show you just how good the IQ is on the 7D.
For me the combo of IQ and advanced AF plus build and weather proofing make the 7D a killer package at a great price.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Simon Brygg - Ostersund Photography


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jonathan Morgan


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bjoern Schmitt - world-of-aviation

 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: Canon 60D

Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:00 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 37):

Perhaps Canon will bring the 1D4 imaging technology into a lesser level of cameras before Nikon

We can dream all we want, but it will never happen. It looks as if Canon is planning to essentially have the same IQ / sensor on all their crop cameras and only differentiate them with AF / build quality. Which is offensive to me and I assume to most people here.

Quoting vishaljo (Reply 38):
Agree, because i'm not sure where this stupid Mega-Pixel race is heading to.

I'm almost dreading to find out what Canon is going to do next. A 22-24 Mp crop camera? Maybe this will be one way for them to sell their more expensive 2.8 lenses: unless you shoot at 2.8 your shots will be affected by diffraction! (Maybe I should delete this in case the Canon marketing geniuses get ideas!)  

But they did see the error of their ways with the G10 and they actually decreased the Mp count on the G11 (by 1/3!). And the G11 does by the look of it produce much better pictures. Maybe they will do such a u-turn on the APS-C cameras too.

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 39):
many people get swept up in the high MP means poor image quality bandwagon

You know, I don't immediately think that. I suppose one reason I'm really pissed at Canon is the fact that I really wanted to like the 7D and I really wanted to upgrade to it from my 40D. So I went in with an open mind and started looking at pictures really wanting to like them (which, if anything else, gave the advantage to the 7D; if you start evaluating something you really want to like, it's more likely that you'll end up liking it and ignore its shortcomings). But what I saw bitterly disappointed me: noisy images (I saw noise at ISO 100!) which were muddy at (modestly) narrow apertures. Nope, I'm not spending my money on that.

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 39):
and you cant use high apertures etc.

Again, the pictures speak for themselves.

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 39):
or down to a size you will use for web use etc its image quality is id say Stellar.

And that's the thing, I don't want to get a camera that will just give me nice pictures when I downsize them. I wanted one that will give me very good / sharp results at the pixel level. I've got several shots here taken with my 40D at ISO 1600. Sure, downsized they look OK (not perfect, but passable). But, at the pixel level they leave a lot to be desired and I never tried to print them since I don't think the results will be great. So, I wanted to upgrade to a camera that will improve on that. And the 7D is not it. Period.

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 39):
Take a look at Darryl Morrell's EVA image which is at the other site as a screeners choice it gives a perfect example of just how amazing the images are from this camera in the right hands...and i'd assume you could produce similar quality work.

Yeah, I know it. Fantastic shot. But given that the light conditions were not all that challenging at the time, I'd bet money Darryl could have taken it with a 40D.

Tony
 
mirage
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Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Canon 60D

Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:02 am

At pixel level nothing beats the 5DII, for the price it's the best. But it's frustating the auto focus is not "adequate" for sports / aviation photography  

Luis
 
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JohnKrist
Head Support
Posts: 1982
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RE: Canon 60D

Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:35 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 40):
It looks as if Canon is planning to essentially have the same IQ / sensor on all their crop cameras

Well, the 60D and 7D shares sensor, 550D does not even though they have the "same" mp count.
This way of doing things runs in more businesses than Canons, look at TV-sets, cars etc where one number or letter moves you up in quality and price even though they are based on the same structure.

And there are other features that justify a price difference than just the sensor. 60D and 7D has buitl in Speedlite transmitter, 550D does not, 60D and 7D has 2.8AF sensitivity, 550D got 5.6 7D got micro adjustment while 550D and 60D does not. Why did they remove that from 60D when 50D got it I don't get though. But, the list goes on...
I love my 7D, but maybe it should have been called 60D IMO since it's not full frame. I have a feeling they are trying to push in a new segment inbetween pro and semi-pro but couldn't really call it the 5.50D  
 
Dehowie
Posts: 1072
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:41 am

RE: Canon 60D

Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:10 pm

Hi Tony this is one of mine at rez of 2000..i can get you one at 4700 which is original but to tell you the truth there is so little difference in quality i dont see the point. This is at ISO 1600 o certainly not anything we could ever have shot until the last few years.
Hope you dont mind the large image size but i think you will see what its capable of..
http://vortexaviationphotography.smugmug.com/Other/webposting/big321/990657918_ty9aq-2000x1333.jpg
Dazz
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: Canon 60D

Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:31 pm

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 43):

Wow, it's impressive. Anything is better than my 400D quality (it'd beat the noise quality of one of my shots at ISO400) which I'm still thinking about upgrading but it's still up in the air and I'd rather get a 100-400 first.
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: Canon 60D

Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:27 pm

Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 42):

Well, the 60D and 7D shares sensor, 550D does not even though they have the "same" mp count.

Hi Johnny, I had actually thought that the 550D had more or less the 7D sensor but with less bandwidth ('cause it doesn't need the 8fps of the 7D). Having said that, if the 7D/60D have a different sensor compared to the Rebel, why do the 60D shots look marginally better at best (you really need to do some serious pixel-peeping to see the difference) than those from the 550D?

Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 42):
Why did they remove that from 60D when 50D got it I don't get though.

'cause Rebel users would not know what to do with it and this is clearly who the 60D is marketed to.

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 43):
Hi Tony this is one of mine at rez of 2000..

Thanks for taking the time to post the image. Could you maybe share what camera settings you used for it, as well as how you processed it?

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 43):
Hope you dont mind the large image size but i think you will see what its capable of..

No, I most certainly don't mind the large image size. Thanks again.

Tony
 
Dehowie
Posts: 1072
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:41 am

RE: Canon 60D

Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:44 am

Hey Tony
I run all my images through CS5 and find the noise removal software excellent and the RAW conversions a step ahead of CS4.
I think the EXIF data should be in the pic if not ill post it up..
All i have done is crop denoise with a light pass from ACR and upload with a light pass of sharpening..nothing special at all.
HTH
Dazz
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2747
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

RE: Canon 60D

Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:57 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 40):
It looks as if Canon is planning to essentially have the same IQ / sensor on all their crop cameras and only differentiate them with AF / build quality. Which is offensive to me and I assume to most people here.

I'd fully support common sensors across different camera lines as it would bring the costs down greatly.

Imagine making a sensor for both a 1D and a 5D. Both get better sensors for the money given the shared pool. To differentiate them (and the price) the 1D gets upgrades for the people needing fast shots, better body, etc. can even save there by using multiple of the same processors and buffer chips in the 1D line vs 5D. Then you can do the same with a "50D" and 7D line where the crop sensor is the same, but the 7D gets more processing power, and other goodies for those that need it.

Like I've said before the 60D to me doesn't fail on its own merits, it just makes no sense in name or price. It should top the rebel range instead of bottoming the xD line. It doesn't even really bridge the gap given the plastic body, missing features and high price.
 
cpd
Posts: 6822
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

RE: Canon 60D

Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:04 am

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 46):
I run all my images through CS5

CS5 is awesome. I was invited by Adobe to an event showcasing all the new stuff. Just fantastic. And really, it's the whole suite that is good, not just photoshop. The CS5 raw noise removal is quite outrageous.

By the way, Topaz Denoise 5 is out and is pretty good. Much improved over version 4. With that and CS5, it's a lot easier to make use of ISO5000 or ISO6400 images than it previously used to be.

[Edited 2010-09-01 22:06:05]
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: Canon 60D

Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:12 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 48):
CS5 is awesome. I was invited by Adobe to an event showcasing all the new stuff. Just fantastic. And really, it's the whole suite that is good, not just photoshop. The CS5 raw noise removal is quite outrageous.

The most useful function I've been using is the ruler with the new straighten button.. It saves so much time. I guess I'll try out the raw noise reduction sometime soon.

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