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ptrjong
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:38 am

Usage Request

Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:46 pm

Hi all,

United Aviation Services would like to use one of my pictures for their 2011 calendar. Does anyone know the company and the calendar? It doesn't seem to be a one-horse company. Any ideas as to how much I might ask?

http://www.uas-hdq.ae/all/viewPages.php?id=32

Thanks,

Peter 
 
waketurbulence
Posts: 1264
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:33 pm

RE: Usage Request

Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:25 pm

For my last calendar I asked for $100USD and a couple copies. The company was medium in size. The company for your request looks larger to me, but that doesn't always translate into more money   Best of luck.
-Matt
 
cpd
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RE: Usage Request

Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:41 pm

Probably not a lot - because they'll have others lined up.

But it might be okay for your tear sheet, so ask for about USD$100. That will do - anything more than they'll move on to the next person in the list of "targets".

That's just the way it is. Charge less, but put more restrictions on how the image can be used.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Usage Request

Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:54 pm

Thanks gentleman, that is useful.

Peter 
 
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dvincent
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RE: Usage Request

Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:07 am

Got a very similar request from Saab today... asked $100, denied. They're probably not worth your time.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Usage Request

Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:44 pm

Hi Dan,

I've sold something often enough... in one case, for a return flight to and hotel accomodation in Istanbul.
 
JPSfotografie
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RE: Usage Request

Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:48 am

These days where is no need for any skill to take a good picture and the making of the picture does'nt cost you a penny, one can shoot hundreds of pictures to increase the chance of the famous lucky shot. A camera in a cellphone has become common and they get better every day. Everybuddy is taking pictures everwhere. I know it, you know it and sadly they know it. They has indeed lined up some photographers and will succeed to find the free picture. And out there are enough proud amateur photgraphers who are willing to hand over the picture for free, not realising this calendar companies made a lot of money using ones picture.

In The Netherlands this has allready led to the bankruptcy of many press photographers. Some newspapers run completely on free proud photographers. This calendar company want youre picture for free. In the old days the price was depending on the number of calendars produced. When this was worldwide and the numbers run into hundreds of thousants of copies, a single picture set them back for about 10.000 us dollar or more. But these days are gone.

You can ask them what they are willing to pay, but i think "free" wil be the answer. Dont do it, dont let them make money out of your art. If they want to be professional, they have to pay like a professional. It does'nt taste well if you ever see youre picture over and over again, not getting payed for it and even no credits mention youre name. Its a verry bitter taste, i know from experiance.
 
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dvincent
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RE: Usage Request

Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:10 am

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 5):
I've sold something often enough... in one case, for a return flight to and hotel accomodation in Istanbul.

Yeah, I have too in a bunch of cases, but in this case it's clear they're just fishing for freebies... it's not worth it for this case is what I meant.

I had another freebie request from an airline for use in their internal publication... I mean, this wasn't a two-bit airline, it was a US major which shall remain nameless. Not even willing to trade a voucher or a coupon. I'll just continue giving my business to the other airline that's used my stuff and paid properly.
 
johnmiller
Posts: 32
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RE: Usage Request

Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:28 am

I can't imagine much worse than someone using your photograph because it's 'free'. There is no sense of achievement in that at all.

I politely say; "Thanks for taking the trouble to contact me but the answer is NO".
 
INNflight
Posts: 3527
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:11 am

RE: Usage Request

Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:54 pm

Quoting JPSfotografie (Reply 6):
These days where is no need for any skill to take a good picture and the making of the picture does'nt cost you a penny

I could not disagree more. If that's really what you think you really have no idea how much effort, money and time some photographers put towards a single shot.
 
diezel
Posts: 622
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RE: Usage Request

Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:18 pm

There is nothing wrong with giving away your pictures for free. It's your pictures and you can do with those pictures whatever you want. If you would like to see your picture on a calendar but don't get paid for it, just go for it if that is what you want. Some other photographers won't like that, but that is life.

I think that nowadays if you really want to make money of your pictures you need to stand out and, just like Florian said in his post, spend time, money and effort to be the first, best or leading photographer of some kind.

Roel.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Usage Request

Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:36 am

Quoting dvincent (Reply 7):
in this case it's clear they're just fishing for freebies

Sorry, but how do you know? They did make an offer, and are now discussing my price.

Quoting diezel (Reply 10):
t's your pictures and you can do with those pictures whatever you want. If you would like to see your picture on a calendar but don't get paid for it, just go for it if that is what you want.

Completely agree.

Peter 
 
cpd
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RE: Usage Request

Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:41 am

Quoting INNflight (Reply 9):
If that's really what you think you really have no idea how much effort, money and time some photographers put towards a single shot.

Florian is once again right. Especially when you rent a lens for a particular photo shoot, and have to put effort into obtaining the correct access.

That has to be taken into account.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Usage Request

Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:59 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 12):
Especially when you rent a lens for a particular photo shoot, and have to put effort into obtaining the correct access. That has to be taken into account.

No, that's generally irrelevant to the buyer .The market establishes the prices.

There's no doubt that the proliferation of good equipment and of photos on the internet is lowering prices. But some photographers and photos are still better than others. And some buyers will still pay a reasonable price for an image they like, even an ordinary image.
 
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dvincent
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RE: Usage Request

Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:29 am

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 11):
Sorry, but how do you know? They did make an offer, and are now discussing my price.

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, Peter - I was talking about the group that had asked me for usage, not yours. See my earlier post. In my case they were fishing for freebies, since I had made an offer and they came back with the standard "no budget" excuse, which is really pitiful. If you don't have a budget, I probably wouldn't want to see the calendar... I was in the print production business for years, I know how much that stuff costs to put together and run.

On an aside, look for code-words in the usage requests. Things like "non-profit," "freely distributed," etc are codes for "We have no interest in compensating people for hard work, we're just looking for free images to give ourselves value while giving nothing back to you."

[Edited 2010-11-06 20:33:18]
 
INNflight
Posts: 3527
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RE: Usage Request

Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:30 am

A good photographer may have great images, but may not have the skill to sell an image. There's a lot more to that, mostly good communication skills and sense for business.

If you make a party aware of what they get and why it is reasonable to charge for it, they will most likely have no problem to pay. Of course you loose some, but the ones who want free stuff are not the type of people you'll want to deal with anyway.
 
cpd
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RE: Usage Request

Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:57 am

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 13):

But, if one has better access to get the non-standard image that others didn't get - that's where it comes into it.
 
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dvincent
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RE: Usage Request

Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:00 pm

Quoting INNflight (Reply 15):
If you make a party aware of what they get and why it is reasonable to charge for it, they will most likely have no problem to pay. Of course you loose some, but the ones who want free stuff are not the type of people you'll want to deal with anyway.

THis is exactly it, Florian.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Usage Request

Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:12 pm

Quoting dvincent (Reply 14):
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, Peter - I was talking about the group that had asked me for usage, not yours.

Sorry Dan, I guess I wasn't paying attention  
Quoting dvincent (Reply 14):
On an aside, look for code-words in the usage requests. Things like "non-profit," "freely distributed," etc are codes for "We have no interest in compensating people for hard work, we're just looking for free images to give ourselves value while giving nothing back to you."

Or: 'We're looking if we can get your picture for free, since you might be happy to give it away. If you are not, we can always discuss the price.'
Or, they might not normally pay but prepared to make an exception, as happened to me recently after I explained politely that I wasn't going to give a photo for free.
My point is, I think many photographers here a blowing deals by attaining too negative and cynical an attitude. A polite reply without assumptions costs nothing.

Quoting INNflight (Reply 15):
the ones who want free stuff are not the type of people you'll want to deal with anyway.

True I suppose for really special pictures and high-end usage, but see above.

Quoting cpd (Reply 16):
But, if one has better access to get the non-standard image that others didn't get - that's where it comes into it.

If you have a photo that others didn't get, it's worth more, regardless whether you took a lot of trouble to get it, or were simply lucky. The market still decides the price, just to your advantage in such as case.

Peter 
 
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dvincent
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RE: Usage Request

Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:25 pm

You know, in the magazine Sony was giving away at their stand at PDN it had this great article about "working for free." I wonder if it's available on the 'net anywhere. It was a really good read and discussed a lot of what comes up here in these topics periodically.
 
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Fiveholer
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RE: Usage Request

Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:49 am

You never know. It is always situation by situation basis. A couple years ago I had an image in the SWA Cargo calendar. I was offered copies of the calendar of course AND a RT ticket on WN. Well...being I work for an airline already and I didn't really gain anything with a single RT ticket, I asked for money instead. I got $250. Nowadays if they don't mention "compensation" or "your usage fee" in their original contact email, they are fishing for freebies.

Danny
 
harlequin67
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RE: Usage Request

Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:53 pm

My view is who is using the image.

An example is the RAF Squadron or such want to use a photo of an aircraft then they get that free. If a commercial company contacts me then I will ask for a fee.

If the commercial company is looking for a freebie I am wary. How many commercial organisations make a profit/run a business on giving their product as a freebie? Not that many! Why should you?
 
codeshare
Posts: 1689
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RE: Usage Request

Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:23 pm

UAS is a known company in the Middle East, so just ask them what their standard rate is. I think you can get something from 50 Euros upwards and a few copies of the calendar. Or a few company gadgets etc.

KS/codeshare
 
opso1
Posts: 430
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RE: Usage Request

Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:38 pm

I was approached by Sparta for this image for their 2011 Military Jets calendar.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Turnandslip photography




They payed me $250 for it, which they offered in their initial e-mail. If only it was always that simple!
 
johnmiller
Posts: 32
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RE: Usage Request

Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:33 am

If it's a request from UAS, I would not sell them an image for anything under 250 Euros. The photographer has to determine the price as UAS won't have a rate of their own. They are a legitimate company that operates worldwide with a base in Dubai and am positive they don't give away their services for free and don't expect others to do so.

I know a couple of magazines that will avoid paying anything, even for good cover photos. I explained to one recently that a good cover shot can easily cover the cost of the photo in shelf sales. He knew that but still wanted something for nothing as he thought it was a 'privilege' for the photographer! I told him "Privileges don't put food on the table my mate".

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