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teopilot
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Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:26 pm

Hello fellows!  

Here I am Today because I have a doubt about what lens I should buy as a replacement for the plastic 18-55 non IS coming in kit with my 450D.
I went to the local photo - shop on Thursday asking for advices about this question and I was offered four lenses:
1. Canon EF-S 15-85 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
2. Canon EF-S 17-85 f/4-5.6 IS USM
3. Sigma 18-50mm F2.8-4.5 DC OS HSM
4. Sigma 17-70 ... but unfortunately I can't remember the details; I can remember only that it was an "OS" version.  
There, I was told that Canon would have been the best choice with the 15-85, followed by the 17-85, but also that Sigma's lenses were good too, but not as good as canon's ones.

So guys... what can you tell me about these lenses?
Do you have something else to suggest?

To clarify what I'm really looking for: a good replacement for the 18-55, to be mounted on my own Canon EOD 450D, and it would be coupled with a 70-200 f/4 L USM.
I'd like a good focal range, maybe starting from around 15/18 and getting close to 70mm.
I'm not so interested for the moment in ultra wide lenses, with a reducted focal range, like 10-22 or something.  
Then it wouldn't be my primary lens... so I don't need the "L" quality, but I'd like to spend my money on something I wouldn't regret... The use for spotting would be limited when needed and for cockpit shots; of course, for everyday's photos too.
Finally, my budget is around 500 €.

Thank you very much in advance,
Matteo
 
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NZ107
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:54 pm

Quoting teopilot (Thread starter):
1. Canon EF-S 15-85 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
2. Canon EF-S 17-85 f/4-5.6 IS USM

The 15-85 is basically an upgrade of the 17-85 and is now offered on various cameras as a kit (seemingly) rather than the older 17-85. I remember my friend having a problem with the 17-85 and it just didn't work after a while. So out of these 2, I'd go for the 15-85. I don't have anything to add about the Sigma lenses but I've seen some good pics come out of their 17-70.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
scopedude
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:24 pm

My choice would be the 15-85, followed with Tamron 17-50/2.8 non VC or w/ VC. If your budget allows, 17-55/2.8 IS is superb!
5DSR, 6D, X-T1, 70-200 IS II, 70-300 L, 18-55, 55-200
 
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NZ107
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:59 pm

Quoting scopedude (Reply 2):
If your budget allows, 17-55/2.8 IS is superb!

But if you're at that price anyway, you may as well look at the 24-105..
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
scopedude
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:28 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 3):
But if you're at that price anyway, you may as well look at the 24-105..

Can't have it all. You'll gain more reach in the long end but lose the wider end.
5DSR, 6D, X-T1, 70-200 IS II, 70-300 L, 18-55, 55-200
 
teopilot
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:13 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 1):
I remember my friend having a problem with the 17-85 and it just didn't work after a while.

So, what kind of problem was that?

Quoting scopedude (Reply 2):
If your budget allows, 17-55/2.8 IS is superb!

Unfortunalely, is well above it, as well as the 24-105 L, which has the downside of being poor in wide focals, as I need something around 18mm. I know the quality would be more impressive, but I need a lens covering wider focals.
Maybe, in the future, I could go for something like a 10-22.

Quoting scopedude (Reply 4):
Can't have it all. You'll gain more reach in the long end but lose the wider end.

That's right what I was meaning!  
Quoting scopedude (Reply 2):
My choice would be the 15-85, followed with Tamron 17-50/2.8 non VC or w/ VC.

Thank you for your opinion... but I have further questions for you:
1. why have you not mentioned the 17-85? Is it bad? (because I was thinking to go for that lens...)
2. The Tamron? Is it so good?  
 
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NZ107
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:33 am

Quoting teopilot (Reply 5):
So, what kind of problem was that?

Firstly, the AF motor died and then after sending it for service, sometime later the camera couldn't detect it.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
scopedude
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:07 am

Quoting teopilot (Reply 5):
Thank you for your opinion... but I have further questions for you:
1. why have you not mentioned the 17-85? Is it bad? (because I was thinking to go for that lens...)
2. The Tamron? Is it so good?  

1. Slow f/ratio
2. For the price, yes. Actually the non-VC is slightly sharper but the VC has better build quality, feels more solid. I have the VC one, it's 'ok' at f/2.8, gets sharp at f/4.

If you're buying any of these, try it thoroughly at the store - check the sharpness corner to corner. I did  
5DSR, 6D, X-T1, 70-200 IS II, 70-300 L, 18-55, 55-200
 
teopilot
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:50 pm

Quoting scopedude (Reply 7):
1. Slow f/ratio
2. For the price, yes. Actually the non-VC is slightly sharper but the VC has better build quality, feels more solid. I have the VC one, it's 'ok' at f/2.8, gets sharp at f/4.

If you're buying any of these, try it thoroughly at the store - check the sharpness corner to corner. I did  

Thank you very much my friend... I went today to a photography shop in my city... and I was asked 500€ for the Tamron...
Is it a good price?
 
dazbo5
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:03 pm

Quoting teopilot (Reply 5):
as well as the 24-105 L, which has the downside of being poor in wide focals

I've been using the Canon 24-105 F/4 L for the last 18 months and on my copy at least, it's pin sharp and excellent at 24mm, and the rest of it's focal lengths for that matter! I would agree that it's not ideal as a walk around lens on a crop body as 24mm effectively become 38mm so not particularly good for cabin or flight decks but for many other applications, it's a great lens. I use mine alongside a Sigma 10-20 EX when I need ultra wide for cabins and flight decks etc, and it's so sharp, you have to watch you don't cut your finger! I did look at the Canon 17-85mm but at it's wider angles, there's quite a lot of barrel distortion and the lens is known for it's chromatic abberation. I don't know what the newer version, the 15-85 is like though.

Darren
Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
 
teopilot
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:32 pm

Quoting dazbo5 (Reply 9):
it's a great lens

This is true, without a doubt... otherwise it wouldn't be an L glass!  
Quoting dazbo5 (Reply 9):
I would agree that it's not ideal as a walk around lens on a crop body as 24mm effectively become 38mm so not particularly good for cabin or flight decks but for many other applications

As a matter of fact I'm searching for a "walk around" lens, that I could use also during trips somewhere, as well as for aviation when a wide angle is needed. I took some cockpit shots at 18mm, and the results are pretty good and I'm satisfied with them.
Just a sample image taken at 18mm:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matteo Stella



So, I think that most of the time a focal below 24mm would be needed according to my needs. On the other hand, I have never felt the need of an extra wide zoom, like your Sigma. So, I think that, for now, I could go for a "non L" glass, maybe like the Tamron 17-50...
In the future, it would be possible to add an extra wide gradangular lens. But for now, It's not in my list.
And then, the L glass and the ultra wide angle are well above my budget...
So, this should be a good compromise, isn't it?
 
scopedude
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:58 pm

Quoting teopilot (Reply 8):
Thank you very much my friend... I went today to a photography shop in my city... and I was asked 500€ for the Tamron...
Is it a good price?

Well, I don't know - I got it for about $500. I'm not familiar with prices in Europe. Just make sure you test the lens if you're thinking to get one.
5DSR, 6D, X-T1, 70-200 IS II, 70-300 L, 18-55, 55-200
 
teopilot
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:22 pm

Quoting scopedude (Reply 11):
Well, I don't know - I got it for about $500. I'm not familiar with prices in Europe. Just make sure you test the lens if you're thinking to get one.

500$ are a bit less than 500€... but I think the latter could be ok talking about the price...
It's not the first time I go to that shop... I was there to buy my teleconverter. I have to say they're very professional, as they insisted to make me have a try with it before buying.
In other places this does not happen...  
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:51 pm

I use the 17-40L, no IS and it leaves a gap up to my 70-200, but I have never missed it really. I had the 18-55 non IS before and the difference in range between those 2 are not that big. The 17-40 produces great photos and has a constant f/4, is weather/dust sealed and a sturdy build. It's currently at 650 euro here in Sweden, but I bet you can find it cheaper in Italy.
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
teopilot
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:53 pm

Quoting johnkrist (Reply 13):
I use the 17-40L, no IS and it leaves a gap up to my 70-200, but I have never missed it really. I had the 18-55 non IS before and the difference in range between those 2 are not that big. The 17-40 produces great photos and has a constant f/4, is weather/dust sealed and a sturdy build. It's currently at 650 euro here in Sweden, but I bet you can find it cheaper in Italy.

This could be an idea too, thanks John!  
Just a question: have you ever regetted the lack of the IS on this lens?

Then, your bet is a bit wrong  ... The cheaper price I've found is 660€ on an online shop (sending fares excluded).
Let's see what I can do... but I can't assure anything...
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:28 pm

Quoting teopilot (Reply 14):
Just a question: have you ever regetted the lack of the IS on this lens?

Nope, but I haven't used it in really low light either. Day to day shooting a short lens like 40mm does not make IS a necessity.
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
teopilot
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:31 pm

Quoting johnkrist (Reply 15):
Nope, but I haven't used it in really low light either. Day to day shooting a short lens like 40mm does not make IS a necessity.

So... I suppose it's quite light, talking about weight, isn't it?

And scopedude... what about the 17-50 Tamron?
 
scopedude
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:57 pm

Quoting teopilot (Reply 16):
And scopedude... what about the 17-50 Tamron?



You should try it yourself and see if you like it. I use the Tamron for now, but I'm saving for a 17-55/2.8 in the near future.
5DSR, 6D, X-T1, 70-200 IS II, 70-300 L, 18-55, 55-200
 
teopilot
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:07 pm

Quoting scopedude (Reply 17):
You should try it yourself and see if you like it. I use the Tamron for now, but I'm saving for a 17-55/2.8 in the near future.

Nice lens too... but very expensive as well: it above my budget, also with more savings...

I think that I'll have a "trip" in that shop and see which one fits best in my hands! LOL
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:14 pm

The 17-40 is not a light lens, it's a sturdy build as you would expect from L-glass.
Problem? No, it actually feels very well balanced, at least on 50D/7D.
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
teopilot
Topic Author
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:23 pm

Quoting johnkrist (Reply 19):

The 17-40 is not a light lens, it's a sturdy build as you would expect from L-glass.

Of course, you're right... I checked on the Internet, and it seems to be about 500g, around the same weight of the Tamron...

Quoting johnkrist (Reply 19):
Problem? No, it actually feels very well balanced, at least on 50D/7D.

I think that also on a 450D could go!  

And... now another question about the Tamron:
Is the zoom clockwise or counter clock wise? (I mean to increase the focal length)
 
PiedmontINT
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:10 pm

I would have a serious look at the 15-85, it is a big improvement over the old 17-85 and gives even the much more expensive 17-55 and 17-40 L a run for their money when it comes to the optics. They have been known to vignette some especially wide open on the wide end, but if you get a good copy you may never have any issues. The only knock i have against it does have a fairly high max aperture so its not the best in low light, but the IS is excellent and helps alot. Check out the reviews on photozone.de and the-digital-picture.com and if you are really itiching to compare and see for yourself, just rent and see what works best for you
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:35 pm

Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 21):
much more expensive 17-55 and 17-40 L a run for their money when it comes to the optics

Cheaper than 17-55 2.8, yes, but it's $150 more than the 17-40 here in Sweden (15-85 3.5-5.6 IS USM vs 17-40 f4 L USM)
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
teopilot
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RE: Advice About Lenses On Gradangular/normal Range

Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:52 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 21):
if you get a good copy

... Unfortunately, this is a matter of luck!

Quoting johnkrist (Reply 22):
Cheaper than 17-55 2.8, yes, but it's $150 more than the 17-40 here in Sweden (15-85 3.5-5.6 IS USM vs 17-40 f4 L USM)

Also here in Italy the 17-55 is far more expensive than the others, while 17-40 L and 15-85 have quite the same price.

Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 21):
Check out the reviews on photozone.de and the-digital-picture.com

I think I'll spend some time keeping reading and reading! LOL

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