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User avatar
walter2222
Posts: 1244
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:40 am

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:17 pm

Quoting RonS (Reply 93):
.We should look at adding features to get people to vote. I tend to forget too.

I tend to forget too. I often vote for PC, but certainly not every 12-hour period.

What I do almost daily, or whenever I visit the site, is to put photos I like in my collection of albums.

So, what do you think about the idea of automatically submitting a vote, each time you add a photo (not your own) to one of your albums. The only restriction is then to have at least one album  
It could also be set up such that each photographer has a dedicated album with the photos that he or she has selected as PC. (abusers could also be traced this way)

Best regards,

Walter
 
photopilot
Posts: 3101
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:18 pm

Quoting RonS (Reply 93):
1. Everytime you upload you need to vote once.
2. Everytime you go to the forum, vote once.

Good grief, what nonsense. I regularly visit the forums, but what you're suggesting is that in order to visit the forums I must vote. But vote for WHAT? Are you telling me that I must wade through a minimum number of images before I've seen enough to make my vote valid. What if I only look at 5 phots and vote for one of them, and even the best of those 5 is a dog compared to something else I haven't seen?

So now besides requireing me to vote, you'll also make it necessary to waste more time to look at images whether I want to or not.... or my vote becomes meaningless.

Or I go out and shoot for the day, come home and process the images and just want to upload a few then head off to bed. Ooooops, sorry, you can't upload unless you waste some time and view meaningless images so you can vote because you have to.

As you can see, I'm totally against mandatory voting or linking voting to any other A.net task.

IMHO
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12679
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:21 pm

Quoting derekf (Reply 99):
Wrong -
The Problem: those who abuse the system
The Fix: get rid of those who abuse the system

I know what is being said but that is just trying to divert away from the problem that organized groups can abuse the system with ease.

Yeah, I realized after I posted that I should have included that.

But that was also covered in the screeners' and customer service reps' posts in this thread.
 
RonS
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:22 pm

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:02 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 101):
So now besides requireing me to vote

No, I meant everyone besides you.

I'm all ears if you have ways to remind or prompt people to vote, do you? All I did was take a few seconds to rattle off some possibilities.

I think we can ALL agree, well at least I can, that the system lends itself to abuse (or not accurately reflecting the best images) when not enough people vote. So as a group, we should think of ways to get more people to vote.

Let's hear your ideas.
 
unattendedbag
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:35 pm

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:03 am

Quoting RonS (Reply 103):
Let's hear your ideas.

I like the idea of requiring a minimum number of photos in the database for a particular photographer before that photographer is allowed to vote. If 50 works, then 50 works. If it doesn't, it can always be increased.

I like the idea of a reminder to photographers that 1) we actually have a Photographers Choice award and 2) reminding them that they can vote if they please. A simple link to the page of 15 would be sufficient. If the photographer didn't feel any of them deserved it, then he/she can go and find their own "favorite". It can't be mandatory and it shouldn't be intrusive. A simple link on the profile page or a link at the end of an upload that would remind the photographer how long it's been since they last voted.
 
zbot69
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 10:29 am

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:37 am

Quoting derekf (Reply 99):
Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 90):

You accomplish nothing with disincentives. Rewards. Not punishments. Carrots. Not sticks.

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 104):

I think the idea stinks. As if this place isn't enough "members only" already.

You can't blame photographers for not voting for a feature they see no value in. And you can't force me to vote for photos I have no interest in voting for. But thanks for proposing to take away my vote completely because I don't sit at home uploading my memory card.

You're not going to improve the feature by complicating the process. You need a simple, value-added solution. I've mentioned it already, but thanks for skipping over my replies.

Advertize the PC feature, and creative an _incentive_ for people to participate. Incentives. Not disincentives. Carrots. Not sticks. Don't complicate the process. Simplify. You advertize the feature, you increase its value. How do you advertize the feature? You let the PC photos advertize the feature. How? Create a Photographer's Choice Award Icon. Each PC photo wins the PC Photo Award icon. You think that idea is stupid? You're not thinking it through. But you know what... apparently I'm having a conversation with myself. I'm not going to waste my breath expounding on how to increase value over cost without complicating the process while my posts are being skipped AND in the end A.net does whatever it pleases. You guys just keep debating amongst yourselves.

Good day.
 
unattendedbag
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:35 pm

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:16 am

Quoting zbot69 (Reply 105):
I think the idea stinks.

Which one? I gave my support to 2 ideas in that 1 post. If you knew how to quote properly, I wouldn't have had to go back and re-read every single one of your posts to get an understanding of which idea you were objecting to.

Quoting zbot69 (Reply 30):
the problem with the PC vote is that it has a low participation rate. Maybe some added reminders to photogs during uploading?

We agree on that idea as I stated in my last reply.

Quoting zbot69 (Reply 30):
The photos I would really like to upload are basically beyond my editing skill level and my learning curve is flatlining... hahaha.

That's your problem. It wouldn't take a memory card dump to get 50 shots on here.

If I am reading the CS&S/Crews replys correctly, some photographers are uploading 1 or 2 images to the database (from certain countries) and then using their votes to vote up the photos of their friends. Requiring a minimum photo limit for the photographers choice vote would eliminate this problem. If you want to have a vote, then invest a little more time into the process.

Quoting zbot69 (Reply 105):
How? Create a Photographer's Choice Award Icon. Each PC photo wins the PC Photo Award icon. You think that idea is stupid?

I think that's a fine idea. Sure, it's done on a competitors site, but who cares? Let's take all of their best features and implement them here as if a.net thought of them!

Quoting zbot69 (Reply 105):
Incentives. Not disincentives. Carrots.

Incentives? You want incentives? The incentive is having your image on the front page, just under the Top 5 of 24 for 12 full hours giving your photo good exposure.

[Edited 2011-08-03 20:24:14]
 
zbot69
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 10:29 am

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:00 am

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 106):

Thanks for the friendly reply.

[Note to self: stop wasting time on the A.net photography forum where your unsolicited input is about as welcome as the ex wife's mother-in-law and humor is about as sparse as water in the desert. Print this reminder out, slap it on something somewhere in plain site next time you think of wasting time in this forum, and $20 fine every time you even open the forum again.]
 
User avatar
FYODOR
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 4:13 am

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:56 am

Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 90):
If the limit is raised to 25 or even 50 photos in the DB it's more hassle than fun to create duplicate accounts.

Good idea.

Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 90):
you can't vote on photographers from your home country

I thought we make valuation on photos, not countries there they from. And we have to think about US or UK users then.
 
Chukcha
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:57 am

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:07 pm

Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 90):
If the limit is raised to 25 or even 50 photos in the DB it's more hassle than fun to create duplicate accounts.

Great idea. There is the "Photographers Index" with the photographers having at lest 50 photos in the DB - why not use it somehow? Simple: only photographers that made that list should be allowed to vote.

Makes me wonder though, how long it would take the site programmers to implement the feature...
 
User avatar
JohnKrist
Head Support
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:54 pm

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:05 pm

Problem is, with so few voting already, does it help to remove 90% of the people who can vote?
 
User avatar
airkas1
Posts: 7904
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:01 am

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:39 pm

We just need to:
1) make people more aware of the feature
2) encourage people to start using the feature more
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4770
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:22 pm

Quoting airkas1 (Reply 111):
We just need to:
1) make people more aware of the feature

I think the first step is to make the link more obvious. The voting link gets lost in the clutter under the photo.
 
unattendedbag
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:35 pm

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:31 pm

Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 110):
does it help to remove 90% of the people who can vote?

What percentage of that 90 is causing the problems?
 
McG1967
Posts: 557
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:36 am

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:05 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 112):

I think the first step is to make the link more obvious. The voting link gets lost in the clutter under the photo.

FB Like and Twitter Tweet button were quickly added above each photo. Why not have a Photog Choice Vote Button next to these buttons?

1 other thing that could be done, is rather than show the top 15 in the voting, only show the current PC and the 2nd / 3rd in voting along with the previous winner.

Finally, if you made it that each photographer had 1 vote in any 24hour period rather than the current 1 every 12 hours.

[Edited 2011-08-04 16:14:50]
 
ckw
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:26 am

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:06 am

Quoting airkas1 (Reply 111):
We just need to:
1) make people more aware of the feature
2) encourage people to start using the feature more

I've been following this thread, but in my opinion the key point has been missed - some people think hits and ratings on their photos are important and others (maybe the majority?) don't or don't care either way.

I've personally never liked the concept of voting for pics - (for that matter, I'm not keen on hit counting). It seems to me that in the history of A.net, fairness (or lack of it) with regards to popular pics has been a bit of a running sore, causing endless arguments, bitterness etc. And I'm not sure what purpose it serves.

If someone really likes a pic, they will leave a comment, highlight it in the forums or contact the photographer directly. As far as I was concerned when I uploaded here, a personal email from one person meant more to me than 1000s of hits.

Does it serve the non-contributor? I think not. Speaking for myself, it just leaves me confused - why this shot and not another? I'll make up my own mind which shots I like.

I also feel the system is intimidating for new contributors who may feel they haven't a hope of making it into the 'major league'.

It would be a brave experiment, but I would love to see what would happen if A.net hid the hit counter and removed voting for say, a year. Sure, you may lose a few photogs who's egos seem to depend on numbers - but is that such a bad thing? Or pehaps you could have hidden voting - so the photog got a 'well done' email, but no one else would see it.

Yes, there are ways the existing system could be improved, but I doubt it can be made abuse proof (I spent a long time looking at this for another site). For those to whom it matters so much, they will find a way. Those who don't care will never be persuaded to participate, or help police it.

Cheers,

Colin
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12679
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:51 am

Quoting zbot69 (Reply 107):
[Note to self: stop wasting time on the A.net photography forum where your unsolicited input is about as welcome as the ex wife's mother-in-law and humor is about as sparse as water in the desert. Print this reminder out, slap it on something somewhere in plain site next time you think of wasting time in this forum, and $20 fine every time you even open the forum again.]

I don't think anyone means any offense by ignoring your post(s). It happens - posts of mine get ignored all the time. The important thing is that you contributed.

Quoting FYODOR (Reply 108):
Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 90):
If the limit is raised to 25 or even 50 photos in the DB it's more hassle than fun to create duplicate accounts.

Good idea.

I actually like that idea as well.

Quoting ckw (Reply 115):
I've personally never liked the concept of voting for pics - (for that matter, I'm not keen on hit counting). It seems to me that in the history of A.net, fairness (or lack of it) with regards to popular pics has been a bit of a running sore, causing endless arguments, bitterness etc. And I'm not sure what purpose it serves.

That's a good point. See the recent discussion on the whole Facebook/Top 5 thing for a great example. That one confused the hell outta me. I really couldn't figure out what the issue there was.

Quoting ckw (Reply 115):
If someone really likes a pic, they will leave a comment, highlight it in the forums or contact the photographer directly. As far as I was concerned when I uploaded here, a personal email from one person meant more to me than 1000s of hits.

Also true. While I have to admit that I like seeing my photos get hits, I much prefer seeing people add them to their photo albums. And receiving an email from someone just makes my day - literally, I sit there and think, wow, someone actually went out of their way to email me about one of my photos!

With all that said, I think the concept of the Photographers' Choice is a good one. It's great that A.net contributors can get publicly recognized by their fellow contributors.

Out of curiosity, I don't remember when the PC was added, but was it once much more utilized than it is now?
 
Chukcha
Posts: 2019
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:57 am

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:15 am

Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 110):
Problem is, with so few voting already, does it help to remove 90% of the people who can vote?
Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 113):
What percentage of that 90 is causing the problems?

And what percentage of that 90 are fake accounts and immature newbies who haven't figured out yet what A.net is all about, and who think that voting is for promoting their pals and compatriots?

If there are fewer votes still, so be it providing that remaining ones are genuine.
 
User avatar
FYODOR
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 4:13 am

RE: Photographers, Please Vote!

Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:00 am

Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 110):
does it help to remove 90% of the people who can vote?

I think the most of regular voters - people who are advanced in photography and in Anet. So it can be a big difference between CAN vote and DO vote. I not sure it will be a big trouble for the second category. At least it will stimulate photogs to upload more. Those who have no enough photos in DB still have a chance to rate photo. It can be an exception made for FCM as well.

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